Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal


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Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby DrJay » Tue May 07, 2013 10:33 am

Nice op-ed piece about Carolina's athletics/academics problems (scandal), about how a very good chancellor was not prepared to deal with big-time college athletics issues and how he was spending half his time (!) dealing with the football team and subsequently got raked over the coals by many pundits.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/opini ... inion&_r=0
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby bambam » Wed May 08, 2013 1:46 pm

With the exception of Stanford, and closely followed by Duke, I think Carolina has the best mix of good academics and absolute top-notch athletics in virtually all sports (men's golf a strange exception). Sounding strange coming from a Dukie but I really admire the Carolina athletic program - I think they try to do things the right way, as the Dark Blue guys do also.

But Duke had Corey Maggette a few years ago, and a recent shamboozle with Lance Thomas. If that can happen at Duke, and this mess happens at UNC, makes one wonder about the SEC schools, some of the Big 10 schools, and college sports in general and how dirty it really is.
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby gh » Wed May 08, 2013 8:57 pm

bambam wrote:With the exception of Stanford, and closely followed by Duke, I think Carolina has the best mix of good academics and absolute top-notch athletics in virtually all sports...


best mix=least worst.

all schools, sorry about that.
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby DrJay » Thu May 09, 2013 5:41 am

But I'd rather be least worst than middlin' worst or worst worst.
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby Conor Dary » Thu May 09, 2013 7:26 am

DrJay wrote:But I'd rather be least worst than middlin' worst or worst worst.


As gh says, it really isn't much different, at Stanford, Duke, or Oregon, except maybe the real lunatic schools. Especially if you spent any time at an English university. Quiet weekends in the fall. No big stadia, the Library is the biggest building on campus. The sports facilities are for all of the students.
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby KevinM » Thu May 09, 2013 8:37 am

gh wrote:best mix=least worst.

all schools, sorry about that.


Agreed. You can even throw the Ivy League schools in there. Once allowances start to be made on the admissions level, it truly becomes an issue of claiming to be a little bit pregnant.
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby bambam » Thu May 09, 2013 9:17 am

Can't fully agree on this. I have a hard time equating Duke, Stanford, Carolina, Vanderbilt, Ivies, and schools of that ilk with Miami, SEC, etc.
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby Conor Dary » Thu May 09, 2013 9:22 am

bambam wrote:Can't fully agree on this. I have a hard time equating Duke, Stanford, Carolina, Vanderbilt, Ivies, and schools of that ilk with Miami, SEC, etc.


Yea, I guess so. But a few years ago people would have included Penn State in that list. So I would be careful on a holier than thou attitude.
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby batonless relay » Thu May 09, 2013 9:46 am

KevinM wrote:
gh wrote:best mix=least worst.

all schools, sorry about that.


Agreed. You can even throw the Ivy League schools in there. Once allowances start to be made on the admissions level, it truly becomes an issue of claiming to be a little bit pregnant.

"throw the Ivy League schools in there"?? You do recognize this is about the ills of collegiate sports, right? Well, let's see:

-Columbia, Dartmouth, Harvard and Princeton made their football stadiums SMALLER (those 4 should expel Penn, Brown, Cornell and Yale! "Quadragonal" has a nice ring, no?)
-They collaborate so there aren't wild discrepancies in admissions within the league
-no post season for Football (Ivies are FCS - though D1 in other sports)
-and they pad their schedules...with each other.
-90+% graduation rates

You're right, what were the rest of us thinking; they lost the Title IX lawsuit and changed the rules a few years back that bars freshman from playing varsity football; and they are only good for busting NCAA Tournament brackets ... just throw them in with the SEC and Big 12. :roll:
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby bambam » Thu May 09, 2013 11:10 am

Conor Dary wrote:
bambam wrote:Can't fully agree on this. I have a hard time equating Duke, Stanford, Carolina, Vanderbilt, Ivies, and schools of that ilk with Miami, SEC, etc.


Yea, I guess so. But a few years ago people would have included Penn State in that list. So I would be careful on a holier than thou attitude.


That's a very good point.
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby 26mi235 » Thu May 09, 2013 11:35 am

Conor Dary wrote:
bambam wrote:Can't fully agree on this. I have a hard time equating Duke, Stanford, Carolina, Vanderbilt, Ivies, and schools of that ilk with Miami, SEC, etc.


Yea, I guess so. But a few years ago people would have included Penn State in that list. So I would be careful on a holier than thou attitude.


Not sure the Penn State thing changed a lot of those opinions. I expected that the Football team and its revenue stream were a dominant factor for the university. The scandal did not relate to the academic side of things. They are a good school but in the bottom half of the B1G 10, although Nebraska lowered how far down the bottom is.

Make no mistake about it that the 'big' schools have a huge revenue and image element tied into athletics, primarily football, with a basketball chaser; other sports are secondary.

However, I am not sure how this can evolve - some talk about the bug guys leaving the NCAA entirely and being an independent entity - but the level of football is Triple A compared to the NFL and would not draw that much interest if divorced from the school.

By the way, how is a football entity outside of the NCAA going to fly if they cannot provide Title 9 balance?
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Re: Op-Ed piece about Carolina's football/academic scandal

Postby batonless relay » Thu May 09, 2013 11:43 am

bambam wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
bambam wrote:Can't fully agree on this. I have a hard time equating Duke, Stanford, Carolina, Vanderbilt, Ivies, and schools of that ilk with Miami, SEC, etc.


Yea, I guess so. But a few years ago people would have included Penn State in that list. So I would be careful on a holier than thou attitude.


That's a very good point.

I don't see the Penn State issue as an athletic issue - even though it involved the iconic coach at a base level; I see it like the the cover up at Eastern Michigan of the murder of Laura Dickinson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Laura_Dickinson which did not have anything to do with athletics. Sadly, and unfortunately, it's closer to the auto industry - full of graduates, lawyers, doctors, mba's and all around good people who are a-listers for cocktail parties - where manufacturers resisted putting safety features on cars that would have and could have saved lives. Or, even the oil industry (there has been nearly zero advancement in how to clean up a spill in almost 50 years). Many of those people, but not all, were not athletes, they were "good" people, and they did nothing because they thought it might cost a little more money. THAT is what the Penn State thing is...but it happened to involve defenseless little boys. I think PSU is a bad example.

These cases aren't unique, it's just the wannabe eggheads who want to exert some sort of moral superiority over "stupid athletes".
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