First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Gay


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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby gh » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:13 pm

I've never met one :twisted:
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:16 pm

Where was Broussard when Jordan gambled, Kobe cheated, or Barkley spat?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Medal » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:15 pm

kuha wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Clearly, Muhammad Ali risked more than all of them put together (eg. career, freedom, wealth, etc.) when he refused to be inducted into the Army because of his religious beliefs.


Yes. And it's not even close.


Not even close 8-) ? I don't see the relevancy in comparing the risk one athlete takes versus another athlete, or particularly like the implications. With the implications being that the acts of certain athletes are comparably less notable since those athletes are facing comparably less risk.

The lives of female athletes in Tunisha are in danger from religious fundamentalist, now that is a ultimate risk. And yet, the contributions of Billie Jean, Muhammad Ali, Arthur Ash, Jesse Owens, etc are not, and should not be diminished. So why then the discussion of:

Billie Jean < Jason Collins < Earvin Johnson < Muhammad Ali....

Didn't mean to single out Kuha and Jazzycyclist :oops: this is really directed at this whole comparison thing in general.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:14 am

bijanc wrote:Where was Broussard when Jordan gambled, Kobe cheated, or Barkley spat?

Not a commentator for ESPN back then.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:25 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:As a footnote! I don't think this guy will be at ESPN much longer...
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... en?ref=fpb

Wow - his take on heterosexual intimacy before marriage is so out of step with current American culture that's it's a wonder he hasn't been an 'issue' for ESPN before now.

I guess he's a big fan of Tim Tebow and Lolo Jones.


Continuous love affair of the media with these two is truly astonishing. Here is the latest.

1. Lolo finishes in the middle of the pack at Drake. Who is picked for a lengthy interview? The winner? The runner-up perhaps? No, it is our darling Lolo, who else?

2. 3-day NFL draft concludes and Tim Tebow is canned by the Jets a couple of days later. Which event gets most of the headlines? But, of course, our darling Tim.

Before anybody uses the usual "hater" word, I am (at least right now) talking about the media and not the two athletes.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:33 am

Pego wrote:Continuous love affair of the media with these two is truly astonishing. Here is the latest.
1. Lolo finishes in the middle of the pack at Drake. Who is picked for a lengthy interview? The winner? The runner-up perhaps? No, it is our darling Lolo, who else?
2. 3-day NFL draft concludes and Tim Tebow is canned by the Jets a couple of days later. Which event gets most of the headlines? But, of course, our darling Tim.
Before anybody uses the usual "hater" word, I am (at least right now) talking about the media and not the two athletes.

I am both a Lolo and Tebow fan, but yes, even I have to admit that was odd/wrong. But . . . we have to remember . . . that the media only reflects what the reading public wants, so obviously there are still many ardent L/T fans out there. Being one, I get it, but I also 'get' how odd it looks that they get the limelight, while more successful athletes get so little.

Lolo is only as good as her last race, but I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL. Would he not make a very useful option fullback or option tight end?! He blocks well, packs a punch, has great hands, has good speed, is smart, and always brings the threat of an option pass.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:50 am

Marlow wrote:I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL


It seems that the CFL is not interested either.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:30 am

Pego wrote:
Marlow wrote:I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL


It seems that the CFL is not interested either.


Not surprised at all. Tebow is one big distraction no one wants to deal with. Especially for a guy with such limited talent. The Jets realized early on what a disaster it was to trade for Tebow. The Bears had to go out of their way in the Tribune today: No we are not interested in TT.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:39 am

Conor Dary wrote:Tebow is one big distraction no one wants to deal with. Especially for a guy with such limited talent.

I realize that the demands of the NFL exceed that of the NCAA, but to call a guy who not only won the Heisman AND led his team to the NCAA Championship AND is accepted (in Gainesville) as the greatest Gator ever . . . as "such limited talent" simply ignores the FACTS. Doesn't say much for the thousands of players who did not achieve as much.

I believe it when all the 'experts' tell me he doesn't have the arm, but he has so many other skills, I am led to believe that it is his ardent Christianity that causes problems to many. How odd is that? 50 years ago that would have been a huge plus (Roger Staubach and others were as out-spoken as Tebow).

Denver gave him a chance and his stats were terrible, but a funny thing happened: they won games they shouldn't have. To re-paraphrase Darryl Royal, speaking of James Street - he can't do much of anything . . . except win.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:48 am

If Tebow was some anonymous player I think teams might try to use him. But he is not. Sure TT won games in Denver, but it took Elway, about 30 microseconds to get rid of him when the chance came. Some teams win games in spite of the QB, not because of him. Look at Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton with the Bears. And who cares about the Heisman? That is history. Tebow is guy with limited ability and an infinite amount of baggage from all of the attention he gets. Which is why NY released him.

He is at most always going to be some bit player, if he even plays again. As for his overt Christianity, I think it is all a bit of a bore now, since his pro career is kind of a bust now.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:25 am

Marlow wrote: but I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL. Would he not make a very useful option fullback or option tight end?! He blocks well, packs a punch, has great hands, has good speed, is smart, and always brings the threat of an option pass.

I think the problem is that Tebow still hasn't given up on his dream of playing quarterback in the NFL.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:32 am

Considering that Collins is at the twilight of his career, I think the media is giving him way more attention than his story warrants. He's free agent and there was a very good chance that wouldn't have gotten signed to another contract even if he had stayed in the closet. In the end, he's not much different than all the other pro athletes in football, baseball and basketball who came out after they retired. The only difference is that he hasn't filed the retirement paperwork with the league office yet. If he had at least one year left of his contract, his story would warrant the attention it's getting.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:32 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote: but I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL. Would he not make a very useful option fullback or option tight end?! He blocks well, packs a punch, has great hands, has good speed, is smart, and always brings the threat of an option pass.

I think the problem is that Tebow still hasn't given up on his dream of playing quarterback in the NFL.


Yea, that is it in a nutshell.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:16 am

Conor Dary wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote: but I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL. Would he not make a very useful option fullback or option tight end?! He blocks well, packs a punch, has great hands, has good speed, is smart, and always brings the threat of an option pass.

I think the problem is that Tebow still hasn't given up on his dream of playing quarterback in the NFL.

Yea, that is it in a nutshell.

Well, if he turns down an offer to play at another position, he is not the 'team player' I thought him to be. We'll see. Regardless, he'll rake in major coinage as a motivational speaker for the rest of his life.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:29 am

Marlow wrote:I am led to believe that it is his ardent Christianity that causes problems to many. How odd is that? 50 years ago that would have been a huge plus (Roger Staubach and others were as out-spoken as Tebow).


Roger Staubach staged a pompous public religious celebration after many successful plays? :roll:. El Guerrouj came close occasionally, so does Will Clay running around after the competition waving the Bible for all to see how devout he is. Even the demonstrative crossing of Borza or Krivoshapka at the start is not close to Tebowing. This has nothing to do with being outspoken.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby lonewolf » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:31 am

I agree with other posters that Tebow's unnecessarily pushy piety is his biggest problem fitting in the current environment.
I do think he would be a very useful fullback or tight end.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:47 am

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote: but I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL. Would he not make a very useful option fullback or option tight end?! He blocks well, packs a punch, has great hands, has good speed, is smart, and always brings the threat of an option pass.

I think the problem is that Tebow still hasn't given up on his dream of playing quarterback in the NFL.

Yea, that is it in a nutshell.

Well, if he turns down an offer to play at another position, he is not the 'team player' I thought him to be. We'll see. Regardless, he'll rake in major coinage as a motivational speaker for the rest of his life.

Swell.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:21 am

Conor Dary wrote:Swell.

You needn't attend. Many will and be moved, as is their prerogative. Are you looking down your nose at them?

As for his Tebowing, I still don't get the adverse reaction. How does this infringe upon your pursuit of happiness? Does a demonstration of faith annoy or offend you? Wouldn't that seem to be your issue, not his? As he has often said, the kneel/prayer is not of his choice; he is compelled to do it. To each his own. Doan make no nemmine to me!
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby kuha » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:23 am

Marlow wrote:As he has often said, the kneel/prayer is not of his choice; he is compelled to do it. To each his own.


So many of us are simply compelled to be irritated by him. No more need for analysis or discussion.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:24 am

kuha wrote:So many of us are simply compelled to be irritated by him. No more need for analysis or discussion.

So be it. I'm just amazed that anyone is affected one way or another. It means nothing to me. He does it; it's meaningless to me, so I certainly can't be irritated by it.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:35 am

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Swell.

You needn't attend. Many will and be moved, as is their prerogative. Are you looking down your nose at them?

As for his Tebowing, I still don't get the adverse reaction. How does this infringe upon your pursuit of happiness? Does a demonstration of faith annoy or offend you? Wouldn't that seem to be your issue, not his? As he has often said, the kneel/prayer is not of his choice; he is compelled to do it. To each his own. Doan make no nemmine to me!


I did not bring it up, you did. This is what you said a few posts ago.

Marlow wrote:I am led to believe that it is his ardent Christianity that causes problems to many.


Obviously, you postulate that it is an irritant not just to kuha, Conor Dary, lonewolf, Pego but multitudes of others. What difference does it make that it does not bother you personally when by your own statement, many people don't like it?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:37 am

Marlow wrote:
kuha wrote:So many of us are simply compelled to be irritated by him. No more need for analysis or discussion.

So be it. I'm just amazed that anyone is affected one way or another. It means nothing to me. He does it; it's meaningless to me, so I certainly can't be irritated by it.


Then why babble on endlessly about it?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jeremyp » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:30 pm

This should have happened in the 90's not in 2013. The only news here is how big this news story is being pumped. To me it's like the Germans announcing they were no longer anti semitic.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby lonewolf » Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:20 pm

Clarification ( I hope): I did not mean Tebow's behaviour bothered me any more than anyone else's ostentatious display of religiosity.
I was just postulating that it may be influencing the NFL guys who write the checks.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby marknhj » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:01 pm

The BBC did a historic piece before the 200m in London with Michael Johnson sharing his memories of the 19.32 race. He said that before the athletes were called onto the track a teammate asked everyone to join him in a prayer circle. Johnson, with complete scorn on his face and contempt in his voice, said he ignored the request and was thinking, "I'm not going to <pause to edit himself> pray with you. I'm going to kick your ass" (or words close to that).
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:13 pm

lonewolf wrote:Clarification ( I hope): I did not mean Tebow's behaviour bothered me any more than anyone else's ostentatious display of religiosity.
I was just postulating that it may be influencing the NFL guys who write the checks.


It's inconceivable that as a collective unit that all of the teams in the NFL would purposefully avoid a player they legitimately felt could help their team for religious reasons in this day and age. A dog killer gets a 100million dollar deal but a guy who makes the sign of the cross a few extra times is virtually banned? I don't think so.

More likely the scenario is that as a collective unit they've decided his abilities as a QB aren't good enough to play in the league and enough teams aren't sure enough he can play another position to bring him in to find out.

I also think some make a switch in positions appear too easy. FB? Does anyone realize what a FB does on virtually EVERY play? I'm not sure Tebow can do that. TE..can he run a route, catch a ball in traffic? Can he play H back and run the routes out of that hybrid position. Special teams? That's a whole new ballgame. I don't think it's nearly as easy, no matter what the skillset is, as some believe.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:38 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
Marlow wrote:So be it. I'm just amazed that anyone is affected one way or another. It means nothing to me. He does it; it's meaningless to me, so I certainly can't be irritated by it.

Then why babble on endlessly about it?

Babble? Endlessly? Someone needs a hug? I am simply remarking that I am 'amazed' that it seems to bug so many people. Same as I marvel at how the Kardashians create so much animosity. How are they impeding your happiness?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:19 pm

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
Marlow wrote:So be it. I'm just amazed that anyone is affected one way or another. It means nothing to me. He does it; it's meaningless to me, so I certainly can't be irritated by it.

Then why babble on endlessly about it?

Babble? Endlessly? Someone needs a hug? I am simply remarking that I am 'amazed' that it seems to bug so many people. Same as I marvel at how the Kardashians create so much animosity. How are they impeding your happiness?


Yes, babble. I doubt it bothers many at all here. Certainly not I. I just said Tebow is a limited football player, which obviously most in the NFL agree with, and leave it at that. What Tebow's soon to be post NFL career is is none of my concern.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:26 pm

Dutra5 wrote:

It's inconceivable that as a collective unit that all of the teams in the NFL would purposefully avoid a player they legitimately felt could help their team for religious reasons in this day and age. A dog killer gets a 100million dollar deal but a guy who makes the sign of the cross a few extra times is virtually banned? I don't think so.


    He was more afterthought than asset, more distraction than revelation, a decoy who played a greater role on special teams than behind center. As the Jets’ season came apart into 6-10 absurdity, Tebow, frustrated and misled, emerged as a symbol of the franchise’s recklessness in assembling the roster. For two draft picks and $2.53 million — including about $1.5 million still owed to Denver — the Jets acquired a sociocultural phenomenon who played on only 77 offensive snaps, rushed 32 times for 102 yards and completed 6 of 8 passes. He did not score a touchdown.

    At some point, the Jets realized that Tebow, who had bulked up to 253 pounds to gird himself for special-teams duties, was more limited than they had perceived.

    Tebow’s next destination is a subject of intrigue. The Jets showed foresight in wanting to capitalize on his versatility, by lining him up at tight end, in the slot, at running back, but all Tebow wants is to play quarterback. If he is reluctant to consider a full-time position switch — and there is no telling whether such a change would be prudent — his options may be limited.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/30/sport ... .html?_r=0
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby gh » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:37 pm

Conor Dary wrote:[...
At some point, the Jets realized that Tebow, who had bulked up to 253 pounds to gird himself for special-teams duties, was more limited than they had perceived. ...


one word: rugby
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby KevinM » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:42 pm

Marlow wrote:Babble? Endlessly? Someone needs a hug? I am simply remarking that I am 'amazed' that it seems to bug so many people. Same as I marvel at how the Kardashians create so much animosity. How are they impeding your happiness?


I certainly don't think that Tebow is "impeding my happiness", but the backlash is not only to the evangelism, but to the absurd media overkill. See specifically ESPN's absurd coverage of all things Tim:

http://deadspin.com/5929361/how-espn-di ... ebow-story
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:02 pm

KevinM wrote:the backlash is not only to the evangelism, but to the absurd media overkill.

How is that his fault?
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby KevinM » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:12 pm

Marlow wrote:
KevinM wrote:the backlash is not only to the evangelism, but to the absurd media overkill.

How is that his fault?


I didn't say that it is (though he does have a penchant for self-promotion). The point is that much of the backlash is not to Tebow, but to ESPN's over-saturation.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed May 01, 2013 3:28 am

Marlow wrote:As for his Tebowing, I still don't get the adverse reaction. How does this infringe upon your pursuit of happiness? Does a demonstration of faith annoy or offend you? Wouldn't that seem to be your issue, not his? As he has often said, the kneel/prayer is not of his choice; he is compelled to do it. To each his own. Doan make no nemmine to me!

I can only speak for myself, but I view public displays of piety similar to the way I view public displays of affection.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Wed May 01, 2013 5:15 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I view public displays of piety similar to the way I view public displays of affection.

As do I. Big whoop. I was young once too.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Wed May 01, 2013 5:29 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I view public displays of piety similar to the way I view public displays of affection.

As do I. Big whoop. I was young once too.


Perfect, Marlow. Here are degrees for comparison. Do not tell me you disagree, majority of reasonable people would.

Crossing at bat/kicking a penalty shot/in the blocks = kissing
Prostrating yourself on the ground/running around waving the Bible = fondling each other
Tebowing = I am blushing
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Wed May 01, 2013 6:20 am

Crossing at bat/kicking a penalty shot/in the blocks = kissing
no problem
Prostrating yourself on the ground/running around waving the Bible = fondling each other
Have seen neither out in public
Tebowing = I am blushing
Tebowing has zero effect on me.You blushing? That I gotta see! :D
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Wed May 01, 2013 7:42 am

Well, I think we all had enough of TT, back to Collins.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... 54328.html

For those not familiar with the Green Bay Packers religion, LeRoy Butler, while a Packers defensive back originated the famed Lambeau Leap.

Edited a typo.
Last edited by Pego on Thu May 02, 2013 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Wed May 01, 2013 7:53 am

Pego wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/wisconsin-church-cancels-leroy-butler-appearance-because-congratulated-123754328.html

Wow.

Then I was told, because I said congrats to Jason Collins on twitter, I said really? we have a contract, he said check the moral cause,

Would a court side with the church if Butler sued? Did he commit an 'immoral act' in congratulating Collins for coming out?
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