First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Gay


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Gay

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:53 am

bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby gh » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:37 am

Kudos to a very brave man.

And it's gotta be weird for a twin, as he says in the article, to start losing his "twinness" when his brother isn't gay.
gh
 
Posts: 46327
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:46 am

Jason says Jarron was shocked when he told him last yr. Jason's tight w/ Chelsea Clinton.
bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:46 am

gh wrote:Kudos to a very brave man.

Agreed. If for no other reason, he can now know his place in history is secured. It's not exactly Jackie Robinsonesque, but it's definitely history.

P.S. Don't you think EVERYone on his team knew, but gave him the opportunity to make it public?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:49 am

Twin brother didn't even know, and identicals are super close.
bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:19 am

bijanc wrote:Twin brother didn't even know, and identicals are super close.

Becuz the bro is straight, he may have taken pains to guard him from knowing.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:24 am

Marlow:

Why take pains to guard identity from a hetero sibling? He'd love you unconditionally.
bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:31 am

bijanc wrote:Twin brother didn't even know, and identicals are super close.


Does anybody know if there is any data out there regarding sexual preference among identical twins? I had never heard of a case like this before.
Pego
 
Posts: 10199
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:45 am

studies:

http://abouthomosexuality.com/policy-org-twins.pdf

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/sho ... p?t=584951

52% of identical (monozygotic) twins
of homosexual men were likewise
homosexual

22% of fraternal (dizygotic) twins were likewise homosexual

11% of adoptive brothers of homosexual men were likewise homosexual
bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:27 am

bijanc wrote:Marlow: Why take pains to guard identity from a hetero sibling? He'd love you unconditionally.

Yes, but fear of 'disappointing' a loved one can keep many secrets in the closet.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:31 am

Being gay would "disappoint" someone? Wow! As if one has a choice in the matter.
bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:50 am

bijanc wrote:studies:

http://abouthomosexuality.com/policy-org-twins.pdf

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/sho ... p?t=584951

52% of identical (monozygotic) twins
of homosexual men were likewise
homosexual

22% of fraternal (dizygotic) twins were likewise homosexual

11% of adoptive brothers of homosexual men were likewise homosexual


Thanks. Pretty much 50/50. That is surprising to me, I expected greater congruity.
Pego
 
Posts: 10199
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:18 pm

bijanc wrote:Being gay would "disappoint" someone? Wow! As if one has a choice in the matter.

Are you serious? Don't you think most parents want their kids to be straight? Hell, I would even bet that many if not most gay folks wish they were straight. Attitudes may be rapidly changing now, but historically, this isn't something that parents have taken lightly, even among those who continued to love their kids unconditionally.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10859
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:20 pm

That's like wishing your child was white.
bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:09 pm

bijanc wrote:That's like wishing your child was white.

No it's not, because race is apparent at birth, while sexual preference doesn't manifest itself until a lot later in life. As a matter of fact, mothers know what the race of their child is before it's even born. That's not to say the kids aren't born with a sexual preference gene but parents certainly don't know what it is when they bring the newborn home from the hospital.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10859
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:16 pm

Pego wrote:
bijanc wrote:studies:

http://abouthomosexuality.com/policy-org-twins.pdf

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/sho ... p?t=584951

52% of identical (monozygotic) twins
of homosexual men were likewise
homosexual

22% of fraternal (dizygotic) twins were likewise homosexual

11% of adoptive brothers of homosexual men were likewise homosexual


Thanks. Pretty much 50/50. That is surprising to me, I expected greater congruity.


I suspect it really is, being an identical twin myself. And isn't this sort of self reporting. Who knows what the real facts are. Especially after reading this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/28/magaz ... d=all&_r=0
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby gh » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:24 pm

I read the results of a study once (perhaps it's in all the foregoing links; I don't have time to open them all) that found a link between gayness and twins and which one was born first. Can't remember which way it went, but the numbers seemed to defy random chance.
gh
 
Posts: 46327
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby AS » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:46 pm

That SI piece is fantastically written... bravo to Collins...
AS
 
Posts: 4499
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 1956 Olympic city

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:48 pm

As a footnote! I don't think this guy will be at ESPN much longer...

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... en?ref=fpb
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:53 pm

He won't. Martina and Billie Jean, though in individual sports, deserve some credit today.
Earvin Johnson risked far more than Jason Collins. Magic was the best player in his sport, a multiple world champ, at the peak of his powers, and forced to retire because of his announcement. Also, Muhammad Ali risked and lost his livelihood when he refused induction into the military. Collins' career is ending.
Last edited by bijanc on Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby kuha » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:03 pm

It's amazing this has taken so long. In how many professional/employment areas is this still "something" at this point?
kuha
 
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:06 pm

gh wrote:I read the results of a study once (perhaps it's in all the foregoing links; I don't have time to open them all) that found a link between gayness and twins and which one was born first. Can't remember which way it went, but the numbers seemed to defy random chance.


I am a bit leery of identical twin studies and gays. Identical twins are only 1 in every 300 births, so we are not dealing with a huge population. Throw in the relatively small percentage of people who are gay, and it seems to me that the numbers could easily get out of wrack.

PS. So if .3% of the population are identical twins, and 3.8% are gay. And since both are random the population that is an identical twin and gay is 0.0114%. Pretty small.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:26 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
gh wrote:I read the results of a study once (perhaps it's in all the foregoing links; I don't have time to open them all) that found a link between gayness and twins and which one was born first. Can't remember which way it went, but the numbers seemed to defy random chance.


I am a bit leery of identical twin studies and gays. Identical twins are only 1 in every 300 births, so we are not dealing with a huge population. Throw in the relatively small percentage of people who are gay, and it seems to me that the numbers could easily get out of wrack.

PS. So if .3% of the population are identical twins, and 3.8% are gay. And since both are random the population that is an identical twin and gay is 0.0114%. Pretty small.


Yes, the study quoted above is quite a small sample, so the error could be significant. I expected close to 100% in identical, matching the general population in heterozygotic twins (as they are not the true twins).
Pego
 
Posts: 10199
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:28 pm

bijanc wrote:He won't. Martina and Billie Jean, though in individual sports, deserve some credit today.
Earvin Johnson risked far more than Jason Collins. Magic was the best player in his sport, a multiple world champ, at the peak of his powers, and forced to retire because of his announcement. Also, Muhammad Ali risked and lost his livelihood when he refused induction into the military. Collins' career is ending.

I don't think Billie Jean King willingly risked anything because she was outed against her will. And I don't know if Magic had a choice once he realized he had AIDS. If he had announced in the middle of the season, in the prime of his career, that he was retiring to spend more time with his family, the rumors and speculation would have been overwhelming. I think Collins is risking more than Martina because he plays in a team sport in which you're dependent on at least one team wanting you in order to have a career. Clearly, Muhammad Ali risked more than all of them put together (eg. career, freedom, wealth, etc.) when he refused to be inducted into the Army because of his religious beliefs.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10859
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby kuha » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:45 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Clearly, Muhammad Ali risked more than all of them put together (eg. career, freedom, wealth, etc.) when he refused to be inducted into the Army because of his religious beliefs.


Yes. And it's not even close.
kuha
 
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby mump boy » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:01 pm

If only there were some gay twins around these parts !!
mump boy
 
Posts: 5636
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: saaaaaarf london

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:26 pm

Conor Dary wrote:As a footnote! I don't think this guy will be at ESPN much longer...
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... en?ref=fpb

Wow - his take on heterosexual intimacy before marriage is so out of step with current American culture that's it's a wonder he hasn't been an 'issue' for ESPN before now.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:47 pm

Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:As a footnote! I don't think this guy will be at ESPN much longer...
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... en?ref=fpb

Wow - his take on heterosexual intimacy before marriage is so out of step with current American culture that's it's a wonder he hasn't been an 'issue' for ESPN before now.

I guess he's a big fan of Tim Tebow and Lolo Jones.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10859
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:13 pm

I'm a little surprised on the twin aspect that if one twin is gay the other wouldn't be.
Dutra5
 
Posts: 1266
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:51 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:11 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:As a footnote! I don't think this guy will be at ESPN much longer...
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... en?ref=fpb

Wow - his take on heterosexual intimacy before marriage is so out of step with current American culture that's it's a wonder he hasn't been an 'issue' for ESPN before now.

I guess he's a big fan of Tim Tebow and Lolo Jones.

At least I give Broussard credit for not cherrypicking his 13th century Christian Fundamentalist morality. It sounds like he opposes everything except missionary position sex between married people of opposite sexes. What portion of the adult population has never had premarital sex, oral sex, anal sex or gay sex, 0.01%?
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10859
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby gh » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:13 pm

I've never met one :twisted:
gh
 
Posts: 46327
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby bijanc » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:16 pm

Where was Broussard when Jordan gambled, Kobe cheated, or Barkley spat?
bijanc
 
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Medal » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:15 pm

kuha wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Clearly, Muhammad Ali risked more than all of them put together (eg. career, freedom, wealth, etc.) when he refused to be inducted into the Army because of his religious beliefs.


Yes. And it's not even close.


Not even close 8-) ? I don't see the relevancy in comparing the risk one athlete takes versus another athlete, or particularly like the implications. With the implications being that the acts of certain athletes are comparably less notable since those athletes are facing comparably less risk.

The lives of female athletes in Tunisha are in danger from religious fundamentalist, now that is a ultimate risk. And yet, the contributions of Billie Jean, Muhammad Ali, Arthur Ash, Jesse Owens, etc are not, and should not be diminished. So why then the discussion of:

Billie Jean < Jason Collins < Earvin Johnson < Muhammad Ali....

Didn't mean to single out Kuha and Jazzycyclist :oops: this is really directed at this whole comparison thing in general.
Medal
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:14 am

bijanc wrote:Where was Broussard when Jordan gambled, Kobe cheated, or Barkley spat?

Not a commentator for ESPN back then.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10859
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:25 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:As a footnote! I don't think this guy will be at ESPN much longer...
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... en?ref=fpb

Wow - his take on heterosexual intimacy before marriage is so out of step with current American culture that's it's a wonder he hasn't been an 'issue' for ESPN before now.

I guess he's a big fan of Tim Tebow and Lolo Jones.


Continuous love affair of the media with these two is truly astonishing. Here is the latest.

1. Lolo finishes in the middle of the pack at Drake. Who is picked for a lengthy interview? The winner? The runner-up perhaps? No, it is our darling Lolo, who else?

2. 3-day NFL draft concludes and Tim Tebow is canned by the Jets a couple of days later. Which event gets most of the headlines? But, of course, our darling Tim.

Before anybody uses the usual "hater" word, I am (at least right now) talking about the media and not the two athletes.
Pego
 
Posts: 10199
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:33 am

Pego wrote:Continuous love affair of the media with these two is truly astonishing. Here is the latest.
1. Lolo finishes in the middle of the pack at Drake. Who is picked for a lengthy interview? The winner? The runner-up perhaps? No, it is our darling Lolo, who else?
2. 3-day NFL draft concludes and Tim Tebow is canned by the Jets a couple of days later. Which event gets most of the headlines? But, of course, our darling Tim.
Before anybody uses the usual "hater" word, I am (at least right now) talking about the media and not the two athletes.

I am both a Lolo and Tebow fan, but yes, even I have to admit that was odd/wrong. But . . . we have to remember . . . that the media only reflects what the reading public wants, so obviously there are still many ardent L/T fans out there. Being one, I get it, but I also 'get' how odd it looks that they get the limelight, while more successful athletes get so little.

Lolo is only as good as her last race, but I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL. Would he not make a very useful option fullback or option tight end?! He blocks well, packs a punch, has great hands, has good speed, is smart, and always brings the threat of an option pass.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Pego » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:50 am

Marlow wrote:I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL


It seems that the CFL is not interested either.
Pego
 
Posts: 10199
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:30 am

Pego wrote:
Marlow wrote:I don't get the universal dismissal of Tebow by the NFL


It seems that the CFL is not interested either.


Not surprised at all. Tebow is one big distraction no one wants to deal with. Especially for a guy with such limited talent. The Jets realized early on what a disaster it was to trade for Tebow. The Bears had to go out of their way in the Tribune today: No we are not interested in TT.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:39 am

Conor Dary wrote:Tebow is one big distraction no one wants to deal with. Especially for a guy with such limited talent.

I realize that the demands of the NFL exceed that of the NCAA, but to call a guy who not only won the Heisman AND led his team to the NCAA Championship AND is accepted (in Gainesville) as the greatest Gator ever . . . as "such limited talent" simply ignores the FACTS. Doesn't say much for the thousands of players who did not achieve as much.

I believe it when all the 'experts' tell me he doesn't have the arm, but he has so many other skills, I am led to believe that it is his ardent Christianity that causes problems to many. How odd is that? 50 years ago that would have been a huge plus (Roger Staubach and others were as out-spoken as Tebow).

Denver gave him a chance and his stats were terrible, but a funny thing happened: they won games they shouldn't have. To re-paraphrase Darryl Royal, speaking of James Street - he can't do much of anything . . . except win.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: First Athlete in Major U.S. Team Sport to Announce as Ga

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:48 am

If Tebow was some anonymous player I think teams might try to use him. But he is not. Sure TT won games in Denver, but it took Elway, about 30 microseconds to get rid of him when the chance came. Some teams win games in spite of the QB, not because of him. Look at Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton with the Bears. And who cares about the Heisman? That is history. Tebow is guy with limited ability and an infinite amount of baggage from all of the attention he gets. Which is why NY released him.

He is at most always going to be some bit player, if he even plays again. As for his overt Christianity, I think it is all a bit of a bore now, since his pro career is kind of a bust now.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests