Oscar Pistorius suffers memory lapse


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:13 pm

polevaultpower wrote:If I was living in SA, a place with frequent break-ins by violent criminals, and I was staying at my boyfriend's house, someone who is known for being wealthy and has received threats in the past, and if I was in the relative safety of a toilet inside a larger bathroom, and then I heard my boyfriend shouting that there was an intruder... my response would be to lock the door and keep quiet so the intruder doesn't know where I am.

We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.

I have a friend in South Africa. She and her husband have been hijacked twice, it is very common there. Last time it happened as her husband was pulling into the house (they have a gate, as do most middle class South Africans). She hid in the bathroom with her girls and tried desperately to nurse the baby to keep her quiet, while hearing her husband outside begging for his life. She says a person down the road from them has been robbed seven times and three people have been hijacked in the past three months. Most of the crime does not get reported by the press unless it is particularly violent, as it is so common. Almost everyone they know has been hijacked or robbed, and they know quite a few people who have been killed by robbers, some who were killed while resisting and some who were killed even though they weren't resisting. One of her friends was hijacked and barely got her kids out of the car in time. They don't normally take kids, but that happens too, there is always a market for human trafficking.

So yes, I think there is a _possibility_ that Reeva's fight or flight response to hearing her boyfriend hollering about an intruder would be to lock herself in the toilet and keep quiet.


The problem I have with the Pistorius story as has been presented is the multiple angles which there are at least a few leaps beyond what would be considered normal. Based on his own words, he retrieved a gun from the bedroom. The same bedroom the girlfriend would have been sleeping in. If there were an intruder in the home, why would he not either notice her not in the bed or at least attempt to alert her to the fact that she needed to seek safety. That in itself, to me, is pretty bizarre. Then, when he begins to yell out to her to call the police....and why didn't he do that while in the bedroom in the first place.....he gets no answer and then he gets no answer from inside the bathroom...again why wouldn't she answer.....and then simply starts firing away.

One of these might be explainable but there are just too many to me to make any sense at all.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:19 pm

Pego wrote:
polevaultpower wrote:We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.


Pistorius said that he was screaming at Reeva to call the police. How could she mistake that for a burglar and remain quiet in the bathroom?


Since he said he was in the bedroom where he supposedly thought she was sleeping, why did he wait until he was out of the bedroom to start screaming back into another room to call the police. Why didn't he tell her in the bedroom to call the police?
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:20 pm

If the only source for the story "that Reeva was locked quietly in a bathroom" when she was shot to death by her boyfriend is her boyfriend I can not see how one would make any inferences regarding his innocence based on that information.

Now if the forensics determine that she was actually quiet in the bathroom, trembling for fear to get away from an "intruder" rather than trembling to stay alive away from a raging nutty boyfriend, then there is some useful information in that fact.

Based on the eons history of mankind in these scenarios Ill bet that there was a raging nutty boyfriend.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby kevinsdad » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:46 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
The problem I have with the Pistorius story as has been presented is the multiple angles which there are at least a few leaps beyond what would be considered normal. Based on his own words, he retrieved a gun from the bedroom. The same bedroom the girlfriend would have been sleeping in. If there were an intruder in the home, why would he not either notice her not in the bed or at least attempt to alert her to the fact that she needed to seek safety. That in itself, to me, is pretty bizarre. Then, when he begins to yell out to her to call the police....and why didn't he do that while in the bedroom in the first place.....he gets no answer and then he gets no answer from inside the bathroom...again why wouldn't she answer.....and then simply starts firing away.

One of these might be explainable but there are just too many to me to make any sense at all.


By his own farfetched account, the sounds of his girlfriend using his bathroom sent him into such a panic that he lost the ability to act rationally, such was his paranoia about home intruders. Yet, if he was really so paranoid that the armed patrols and other neighborhood security measures didn't satisfy him, why was his property not protected by a fence, and his windows and doors not barred? Why didn't he have an activated alarm system? Just one more thing in his story that makes no sense.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:54 pm

batonless relay wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:Polevaultpower's explanation simply shows one plausible solution. However, if what has been reported is true, that of her skull having been fractured by the cricket bat, then that scenario is unlikely.

It is possible if a fit of rage, he hit her in the head with the bat, she ran for protection and locked herself in the bathroom. Subsequently, either through her verbal communication or his realizing his life would forever be changed anyway he concocted the story and shot her through the door as some kind of excuse that the police/public might by.

it is not refreshing to see that you're competing with polevaultpower's reasonable "explanation" by concocting something profane and outrageously extreme. She made a plausible scenario for why someone would remain quiet in the bathroom with the door locked and you continue to muddy the waters.


But this scenario is far more plausible and the one that i'm going with at the moment
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:28 pm

kevinsdad wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
The problem I have with the Pistorius story as has been presented is the multiple angles which there are at least a few leaps beyond what would be considered normal. Based on his own words, he retrieved a gun from the bedroom. The same bedroom the girlfriend would have been sleeping in. If there were an intruder in the home, why would he not either notice her not in the bed or at least attempt to alert her to the fact that she needed to seek safety. That in itself, to me, is pretty bizarre. Then, when he begins to yell out to her to call the police....and why didn't he do that while in the bedroom in the first place.....he gets no answer and then he gets no answer from inside the bathroom...again why wouldn't she answer.....and then simply starts firing away.

One of these might be explainable but there are just too many to me to make any sense at all.


By his own farfetched account, the sounds of his girlfriend using his bathroom sent him into such a panic that he lost the ability to act rationally, such was his paranoia about home intruders. Yet, if he was really so paranoid that the armed patrols and other neighborhood security measures didn't satisfy him, why was his property not protected by a fence, and his windows and doors not barred? Why didn't he have an activated alarm system? Just one more thing in his story that makes no sense.


Why were the police called previously and that night ?

How and why did burglars manage to climb in a bathroom window on (at least) the 2nd floor, in a gated community that hadn't had a break in for 5 years ??

Why would they lock themselves in a bathroom cubicle ?

If they had, why not fire a warning shot ?

Why not call the police ?

We've already gone over, why not tell your girlfriend ?

How does a cricket bat help you break down a door ?

Not confirmed but why where the shots at a downwards angle ?

Whatever the content, why did he have syringes ?

Why did he carry her downstairs ?

How did his dad and agent get to the house before the police ?

I may not live in SA but i do live in a particularly dodgy part of London and i have a spare room that different models stay on all the time. There is not a scenario in the world in which i wake up and hear noises in the bathroom and assume it's robbers rather than the other people in my house.

I don't live in a gated community and the other people aren't sleeping in the bed next to me but it is inconceivable that i would indiscriminately shoot at persons unknown !!

His story is so full of holes it's a joke, it sounds like something he came up with on the back of fag packet between calling his agent and the police

Even if i'm totally wrong and it was all a big accident, he still deserves to be locked up for years anyway :x
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby gh » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:00 pm

somehow, this is all starting to have the touch and feel of a creative writing class :mrgreen:
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:47 pm

Oscar Pistorious has held a "private' memorial for Reeva,

http://news.sky.com/story/1057309/pisto ... -for-reeva

yet manages to tell the whole world about it !!
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:14 pm

mump boy wrote: Yet, if he was really so paranoid that the armed patrols and other neighborhood security measures didn't satisfy him, why was his property not protected by a fence, and his windows and doors not barred? Why didn't he have an activated alarm system? Just one more thing in his story that makes no sense.


Indeed.

mump boy wrote: How and why did burglars manage to climb in a bathroom window on (at least) the 2nd floor, in a gated community that hadn't had a break in for 5 years ?? Why would they lock themselves in a bathroom cubicle ?

analyzing the machinations of a bald-faced liar is a fools errand.

mump boy wrote:If they had, why not fire a warning shot ?Why not call the police ?

firing a warning shot is usually not a good idea in a residential environment. The great efficacy of a firearm is that you can instantly stop a murderer. Guns should never be used unless innocent life is in great and immediate danger and you are certain that you are shooting to stop a violent crime. That is a rough summary approximation, in common language, of the law in most states in the US . SA may vary from this but I doubt by very much. I dont own a gun but I have read many cases where women have saved their lives and the lives of their children during a home invasion with the use of a firearm. It might be said that the best defense against rape or murder that a woman has is a firearm, not her boyfriend.

mump boy wrote:We've already gone over, why not tell your girlfriend ?

he was in the process of murdering her.

mump boy wrote:I may not live in SA but i do live in a particularly dodgy part of London and i have a spare room that different models stay on all the time. There is not a scenario in the world in which i wake up and hear noises in the bathroom and assume it's robbers rather than the other people in my house.
I don't live in a gated community and the other people aren't sleeping in the bed next to me but it is inconceivable that i would indiscriminately shoot at persons unknown !!

you are a reasonable person.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:44 pm

OP said that she did not call out; we are missing her testimony. His testimony can be checked for consistency and feasibility, but little that he says can readily be taken as reliable in any normal, or legal sense.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby polevaultpower » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:25 am

Pego wrote:
polevaultpower wrote:We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.


Pistorius said that he was screaming at Reeva to call the police. How could she mistake that for a burglar and remain quiet in the bathroom?


If I'm Reeva, and _if_ his version of events is true, I am assuming that he has actually seen an intruder, and I'm thinking that I don't want the burglar to know where I am because I don't want to get kidnapped/raped/murdered.

As far as how could OP not realize she was not in bed? If you have a dark room, a fluffy comforter, and you're in full panic mode, it could be easy to see lumps in the comforter out of the corner of your eye and assume she was there. I doubt she neatly made the bed before she got up to pee. One time in college I was at an away meet, and when I went to go to bed, I thought my bedmate had snuck her boyfriend in, so I slept on the couch. I was wrong.


And for the record, even if everything OP says is true, he still deserves to be locked up in jail IMO. Believing his story doesn't mean that you think he deserves no punishment.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 18.99s » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:02 am

mump boy wrote:Why would they lock themselves in a bathroom cubicle ?

To avoid detection upon realizing the resident is nearby and moving around.

That happened to somebody I know. She came home one day, and was somewhat puzzled to see the bathroom door shut since she lived alone at the time and normally leaves it open after using it. She opened the door and out jumped a burglar. He threw her down (without causing injury, fortunately) and ran through the house and out the front door.

I've also read of burglars hiding in the closet, like this one:
http://www.modbee.com/2012/11/05/244286 ... ng-in.html

So hiding in bathrooms or closets is something that real-life burglars do; it's not far-fetched to expect that a burglar might do that.

Where Pistorius went wrong is with making the unreasonable assumption that a burglar is in the bathroom, when he knew Reeva was spending the night and didn't check where she was. If she had snuck into the house, he'd have a good chance of not being prosecuted, like the guy who shot his daughter after she left her friend's house and snuck back into her family's house and hid in the closet.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 18.99s » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:36 am

polevaultpower wrote:And for the record, even if everything OP says is true, he still deserves to be locked up in jail IMO. Believing his story doesn't mean that you think he deserves no punishment.


If everything happened 100% exactly as he described it, he's guilty of manslaughter (or "culpable homicide" as they call it in South Africa). He was negligent in firing at the door without first taking reasonable steps to determine who was or wasn't behind the door, like checking the bed instead of assuming she was still in the bed.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 18.99s » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:42 am

batonless relay wrote:Multiple gun ownership, at least in the USA, does not mean that someone is either paranoid or schizophrenic.


If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:00 am

18.99s wrote:
batonless relay wrote:Multiple gun ownership, at least in the USA, does not mean that someone is either paranoid or schizophrenic.


If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.

I agree that they're probably going to do something stupid one day (though they obviously might not) but that doesn't mean that they're a criminal, paranoid or even schizophrenic. I see gun ownership for some people similar to how I see some people who buy the largest SUV's or biggest engine or Rottweiler or Pit Bull dogs; it's this need to be more powerful than they are or need to be.

I don't always agree with this guy, and i'm not trying to get in a debate about gun ownership, pro or con, but I think most can agree that Jason Whitlock was right when he said:
Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.

Whether there was a burglar there or not, whether the young couple had a fight or not, Reeva Steenkamp would most likely be alive today if Oscar Pistorius didn't have a gun.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby gh » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:04 am

18.99s wrote:...

If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.


Wrong. You're ignoring a not insubstantial part of the populace: those who collect things. Stamps, coins, knives, guns, you name it. There are no end of normal people who have all kind of guns that they may never even shoot. (for the record, my gut feel is that Pistorious is not one of these, but you're tarring with a way too wide a brush here)
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:27 am

My, fairly new, next door neighbor probably has about 200+ guns in his house and he is certainly no nut. From the photos in his house he and his father did a lot of hunting all over the world.

As gh says, some people just collect things. As for myself I own one gun. My grandfather's, the one from Minnesota, shotgun.

But I still think no one needs to buy six new guns at a time. The only exception I could see is for old collectible guns.
Last edited by Conor Dary on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby gibson » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:28 am

until the SA cops prove THEIR competence, i'd definitely leave oscar alone and say he's innocent until proven guilty.

i mean, south africa had / has a real problem with armed intruders and car jackings. i am sure many people are more than concerned many an evening about real and imagined crimes.

so oscar could well have woke up in a dream world where there were intruders and he had to save the day NOW. not wait for a bullet in the head and to see his lovely raped or tortured as is sometimes the custom.

and drug alegations? friends the track world is full of lance armstrongs. full, so don't dump on oscar.

people install flame throwers to disable intruders.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=car+flamethrower+johannesburg&view=detail&id=9616DA458E65D0D990B11B28C140F7A01B65D37C&FORM=IDFRIR
military site talks about the problem
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/st ... 76228.html
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:31 am

Unless OP is reading this thread, I think it hardly matters what we say. And since the majority here probably think he is guilty as hell, it probably just as well he doesn't read it.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby lonewolf » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:38 am

As to multiple gun purchases, I know a guy, avid hunter and gun collector, who buys new guns to swap for collectible guns.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Midnightfeast » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:27 am

18.99s wrote:He was negligent in firing at the door without first taking reasonable steps to determine who was or wasn't behind the door, like checking the bed instead of assuming she was still in the bed.

Quite,
Oscar's shouting would have alerted any burglar to his presence. If the burglar wanted a confrontation, then Oscar would have been attacked when he turned the corner into the bathroom. Any burglar retreating to the bathroom, would be unlikely to be going anywhere. Oscar had the door covered so, he would be safe enough. The guy would have been hiding, hoping Oscar would go away (assuming he wasn't checking the cistern for loot, but Oscar would still have the door covered).
It is at this point, Oscar should be shouting at Reeva, checking she had/was phoning the police, he had all the time he needed to check who was in the bathroom.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:31 am

gh wrote:
18.99s wrote:...

If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.


Wrong. You're ignoring a not insubstantial part of the populace: those who collect things. Stamps, coins, knives, guns, you name it. There are no end of normal people who have all kind of guns that they may never even shoot. (for the record, my gut feel is that Pistorious is not one of these, but you're tarring with a way too wide a brush here)


I dont own a gun but I can imagine a family coming to the conclusion that they need to have a few firearms in the home for protection of life. They go out and buy more than a few guns. This actually happens, a non-gun owner deciding to become a gun owner, presto-chango, over night, the number of guns they own goes from 0 to 6. All for the reason of protection of life, not because they are collectors or gun lovers, simply because they love their family. I have read that there really is no more fundamental right for a human being than to be able to protect your body from violence . While most males see themselves as able to do that without a weapon, female are very much vulnerable to aggressive males. The firearm is one of the great civilizing tools largely because, as a defensive weapon, it neutralizes the aggression and strength advantage of males vs. females. The average time-to-arrival after a call to the police is not encouraging. Self defense is just common sense.
Last edited by user4 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby polevaultpower » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:36 am

We own several guns. My husband is an LEO. We'll probably move out to the boonies again in the next year, possibly an island. I have not enjoyed my experiences shooting guns so far, but I think that I should probably learn how once we are back in a less populated area, where help might be a lot farther away. I hope I never have to, but I like to be prepared for as many situations as possible. Let me tell you how stressful the few months I lived in a tsunami danger zone were!!
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Daisy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:48 am

My husband is an LEO

??
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 502CD » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:55 am

Daisy wrote:
My husband is an LEO

??


I believe its - Law Enforcement Officer.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby polevaultpower » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:58 am

502CD wrote:
Daisy wrote:
My husband is an LEO

??


I believe its - Law Enforcement Officer.


Yup.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby lonewolf » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:02 am

Oh, I thought he was born in August. :)
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Inspector Clouseau - now - The debate on Oscar Pistorius

Postby Tuariki » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:29 am

Conor Dary wrote:Unless OP is reading this thread, I think it hardly matters what we say. And since the majority here probably think he is guilty as hell, it probably just as well he doesn't read it.

I think the issue is "guilty of what".

By his own affidavit OP is, at a minimum, guilty of taking a series of deliberate actions to kill someone when he had no idea who he was killing.

The prosecution are charging him with premeditated murder. The prosecution is, so I understand,defining premeditated at its most basic level. That is, he planned to murder the person who was in the toilet, even if that plan was first hatched as he entered the bathroom.

I don't think the prosecution has any chance of proving he had hatched a plan sometime earlier in the evening to specifically murder Reeva following an argument with Reeva.

Presumably the defense team will try to mount an argument that OP was justified in his actions because it was a natural reaction for him to "freak out and react the way he did because he was justifiably terrified of a possible violent home invasion".

And while one or two posters may strongly disagree with references to terms like paranoia and schizophrenia to describe OP's actions that night, it would seem to me that may be his best line of defense. Sort of like "momentary insanity" where OP couldn't be held liable for his actions.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:42 am

user4 wrote: The firearm is one of the great civilizing tools largely because, as a defensive weapon, it neutralizes the aggression and strength advantage of males vs. females. The average time-to-arrival after a call to the police is not encouraging. Self defense is just common sense.


I don't know how we cope here in the UK :roll:
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Re: Inspector Clouseau - now - The debate on Oscar Pistorius

Postby lionelp1 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:18 pm

mump boy wrote:
user4 wrote: The firearm is one of the great civilizing tools largely because, as a defensive weapon, it neutralizes the aggression and strength advantage of males vs. females. The average time-to-arrival after a call to the police is not encouraging. Self defense is just common sense.


I don't know how we cope here in the UK :roll:


user4... well done . one of the most sick comments ever. :evil: The firearm a civilising defensive weapon... please go and lie down for a while and you will feel much better.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau - now - The debate on Oscar Pistorius

Postby iain » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:09 pm

^This
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Re: Inspector Clouseau - now - The debate on Oscar Pistorius

Postby user4 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:25 pm

I cant assume that you think a woman should wait for the police to arrive before she is saved from an invader? You must know other alternatives :)

My hope is that the future will see the development of non-lethal technologies that allow the innocent to protect themselves without taking the life of the would-be rapist/murderer.

An ideal solution might be highly directive high propulsion pepper sprays. That seems like an avenue that should be explored in the self defense technology world. Of course you dont want a solution that merely makes the aggressor more aggressive and motivated. Another reason why firearms are so common for self defense is that the shelf life of guns and bullets is on the order of many decades, no serious need for a maintenance/replacement schedule. I suspect that the pepper spray solution falls short on this account. There is probably great room for research and development. I will try to stay positive. :)
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Daisy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:36 pm

lonewolf wrote:Oh, I thought he was born in August. :)

This was my first thought, but that made no sense. Surely she meant TAURUS? :twisted:
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Dutra5 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:29 pm

polevaultpower wrote:
Pego wrote:
polevaultpower wrote:We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.


Pistorius said that he was screaming at Reeva to call the police. How could she mistake that for a burglar and remain quiet in the bathroom?


If I'm Reeva, and _if_ his version of events is true, I am assuming that he has actually seen an intruder, and I'm thinking that I don't want the burglar to know where I am because I don't want to get kidnapped/raped/murdered.

As far as how could OP not realize she was not in bed? If you have a dark room, a fluffy comforter, and you're in full panic mode, it could be easy to see lumps in the comforter out of the corner of your eye and assume she was there. I doubt she neatly made the bed before she got up to pee. One time in college I was at an away meet, and when I went to go to bed, I thought my bedmate had snuck her boyfriend in, so I slept on the couch. I was wrong.


And for the record, even if everything OP says is true, he still deserves to be locked up in jail IMO. Believing his story doesn't mean that you think he deserves no punishment.


PVP...I can't decide if I'd rather have you as my lawyer or on my jury. :lol:
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby bad hammy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:23 pm

gh wrote:
18.99s wrote:...

If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.


Wrong. You're ignoring a not insubstantial part of the populace: those who collect things. Stamps, coins, knives, guns, you name it. There are no end of normal people who have all kind of guns that they may never even shoot. (for the record, my gut feel is that Pistorious is not one of these, but you're tarring with a way too wide a brush here)

I've spent most of my adult life living in Oakland, CA. Most folks in Oakland buying six guns at a time are probably not folks you would want to hang out with. And I am much more concerned with their ability to buy these arsenals than I am any inconvenience a collector or hunter might have if the government makes it a bit tougher to purchase their toys.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:55 pm

bad hammy wrote:I've spent most of my adult life living in Oakland, CA. Most folks in Oakland buying six guns at a time are probably not folks you would want to hang out with. And I am much more concerned with their ability to buy these arsenals than I am any inconvenience a collector or hunter might have if the government makes it a bit tougher to purchase their toys.


If he is a criminal capable of armed robbery, murder or some other violent crime is he going to be worried about acquiring a gun outside the strict letter of the law ? Most guys of that type are breaking countless laws and gun laws already. You can add one more but it is likely not going to reduce crime. Do criminals have guns that can be traced back to them, certainly not the shrewdest and craftiest among them.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 18.99s » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:08 pm

gh wrote:
18.99s wrote:...

If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.


Wrong. You're ignoring a not insubstantial part of the populace: those who collect things. Stamps, coins, knives, guns, you name it. There are no end of normal people who have all kind of guns that they may never even shoot. (for the record, my gut feel is that Pistorious is not one of these, but you're tarring with a way too wide a brush here)


OK, I'll agree that collectors of antique guns aren't to be painted with the same brush. But my view still holds for others who buy 6 guns in a month for non-occupational use, to be used only by their lone self (i.e. not shared with 5 family members) and they're not an octopus.

Sure I'll be wrong a lot of the time, but this is a matter of life and death and I'll be right enough of the time that staying away from such people and keeping my family away from them is a good strategy if I want to live long.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau - now - The debate on Oscar Pistorius

Postby gh » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:50 pm

Nowhere did I say collectors had to go for antiques. The fascination is basically the same for modern weaponry.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Tuariki » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:07 pm

mump boy wrote:
user4 wrote: The firearm is one of the great civilizing tools largely because, as a defensive weapon, it neutralizes the aggression and strength advantage of males vs. females. The average time-to-arrival after a call to the police is not encouraging. Self defense is just common sense.


I don't know how we cope here in the UK :roll:

Same. I am quite happy living in my uncivilized country.

I note that since the terrible events of Sandy Hook there have been about 2,000 cases of aggression neutralizing in the US.
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