Oscar Pistorius suffers memory lapse


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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:24 am

batonless relay wrote:Innocent? I never said that nor implied it. He has already admitted that he shot through the door. The only question is whether or not he knew Ms. Steenkamp was behind the door. He said that he didn't know Ms. Steenkamp was behind the door and I think that is reasonable. What is *not* reasonable is saying that he "concocted" the story when you can't possibly know that. what is *not reasonable* is saying that "there is nothing that can explain what happened..." when polevaultpower made a plausible explanation of what *could have* happened. (Please note that *could have* is emphasized so that it is not mistake with did) Some of us have tried to be reasonable from the start and some of you have made no attempt. So to answer your question: no, I am not kidding you.


If you read both threads you would see that I have been one to give OP the benefit of the doubt with PVP. She opined a plausible explanation, which is exactly what I did. I never spoke it as fact. Others have given their opinions as well. And to suggest hers is the only reasonable explanation for what happened is ludicrous. Unlike others, I, nor most of they, go into a hissy fit when they don't agree with other posters. This appears to be something you have a problem dealing with. So please make an attempt to calm yourself down. What are these message boards other than people discussing current events and their take on that. If you can't handle it, go to Letsrun where you can talk unabashedly and demean people to your hearts content.
Last edited by odelltrclan on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:32 am

odell, unless please re-read your own posts and you will see that they are the quivalent of emotional outburst, not as bad as user4, but ... anyway, please calm down. Also until more information is added to the Pistorius case there will be nothing more for me to discuss with individual posters. Have a calm day, please. No need to get a heart attack.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby gh » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:33 am

batonless relay wrote:.... Is english your first language?


Another comment like that and you're on vacation. We don't take that kind of tone around here. Thanks.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby kuha » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:41 am

odelltrclan wrote:If you read both threads you would see that I have been one to give OP the benefit of the doubt with PVP. She opined and plausible explanation, which is exactly what I did. I never spoke it as fact. Other have given their opinions as well. And to suggest hers is the only reasonable explanation for what happened is ludicrous. Unlike others, I nor most of they, go into a hissy fit when they don't agree with other posters. This appears to be something you have a problem dealing with. So please make an attempt to calm yourself down. What are these message boards other than people discussing current events and their take on that. If you can't handle it, go to Letsrun where you can talk unabashedly and demean people to your hearts content.


Yes, totally. I give odelltrclan my proxy vote on this thread.

The bottom line here is that no one deserves special pleading. The facts are there to be analyzed. If that is done properly, then the legal truth will emerge. But it goes without saying that Pistorius is beginning in something of a deep hole. And that his guilt or innocence is utterly unrelated to whether he is seen as some sort of track "hero" or not.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Pego » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:37 am

polevaultpower wrote:We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.


Pistorius said that he was screaming at Reeva to call the police. How could she mistake that for a burglar and remain quiet in the bathroom?
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Tuariki » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:49 am

batonless relay wrote:
Tuariki wrote:* OP intended to kill the person inside the toilet (Nonsense! Shooting at and intent to kill are different)

When a person is locked in a little bathroom with nowhere to hide and no way to run away and you shoot at that person 4 times (with 3 on target) then IMO, and probably in the opinion of most others, OP had the intention of killing that person.

batonless relay wrote:
Tuariki wrote:* OP achieved his intention (More nonsense. If "a" is untrue, then "b" is untrue)



And I believe in the tooth fairy

batonless relay wrote:
Tuariki wrote:* OP did not hear Reeva calling - after he yelled to Reeva, after shot 1, shot 2, shot 3, shot 4 (For him to hear her she would have to call back. show one link to an instance where it was written that Reeva called to Oscar)



I am not saying that Reeva did call out. I am saying it is a possibility. OP says he called out to Reeva. He apparently says she never replied. PVP gave a plausible explanation which if true is a positive for OP. However, except for OP, no one will ever know. Only two people know if Reeva called out and one of those is dead. If Reeva did call out then OP is never going to admit that. So this possible scenario is something that is in dispute.

batonless relay wrote:
Tuariki wrote:* OP was in love with Reeva (are you serious?)


If OP deliberately killed Reeva then if that is love it is a love that is foreign to me. A person who is obsessed is not IMO in love. However, I am not making a judgement either way.I am just saying it is something in dispute. I imagine Reeva's family would dispute that OP was in love.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:53 am

Pego wrote:
polevaultpower wrote:We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.


Pistorius said that he was screaming at Reeva to call the police. How could she mistake that for a burglar and remain quiet in the bathroom?


Maybe she was brushing her teeth and didn't want to be bothered.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Tuariki » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:00 am

batonless relay wrote:polevaultpower's point crossed my mind from the beginning. I'm more surprised that many of you couldn't have extended Pistorius that minuscule benefit of the doubt. Now Oscar Pistorius is a paranoid schizophrenic? Based upon what? If nearly everything you wrote is in dispute how could you possibly know that? You have examined him? I think, without having any idea whatsoever, that he was a man with a gun who was scared well beyond the area of expertise he was "trained" (trained himself) to deal with and things just went out of control. (individual gun owners routinely make [bad] choices to pull the trigger that a soldier or policeman would not make in the same circumstance)

Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion.

Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that makes it hard to tell the difference between what is real and not real;

I think that the above definitions of paranoia and schizophrenia fairly describe the actions that night of OP. I also note the many comments of OP's acquaintances in SA and around the world who have noted his obsession with guns and security. His recent application for another 6 pistols also lends weight to suggestions of paranoia and schizophrenia.

It would also seem that OP's best chances of getting off would be to plead mental instability because IMO, in concert with other posters, OP deliberately and with intent killed the person in the toilet. Whether ot not OP knew that person was Reeva will never be resolved by forensics. Only OP knows the truth on that particular issue. His version may well be true,but we will never know.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:00 am

Multiple gun ownership, at least in the USA, does not mean that someone is either paranoid or schizophrenic. I don't know if he had an obsession with guns or not, but, to me, it didn't seem that way. Depending on how entrenched one is within a gun culture, Pistorius may not have seemed that bad (i always take comments made after an incident with a huge grain of salt, not saying they're wrong, just that people are usually not qualified to make judgments about people that some clinicians have been known to get wrong.). Multiple guns and trips to shooting ranges are considered extremely normal in a lot of places in the USA (big debate going on about that right now). And that culture can run along all lines: race, socio-economic background, job title and gender.

I'm not sure if you've ever seen this video before but my limited knowledge of the athlete in it would not make me think, for one moment, that they were obsessed with guns even though there is a great chance that they own more than one (most avid gun owners own more than one gun).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czQMxnqhEQo

Oscar Pistorius and his family will hold a private memorial service for Reeva Steenkamp at his uncle's home Tuesday night.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ol ... e/1948689/
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby jeremyp » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:43 pm

batonless relay wrote:
jeremyp wrote:
batonless relay wrote: Neither you, nor I, have any idea of what Ms. Steenkamps flight/fight responses are when scared. I admit that I have no idea what happened that night but I'm tickled by all of you who are absolutely convinced that you do know what happened that night, yet you haven't flown to South Africa to submit testimony.

Fine! You agree that you have no opinion and no wish to opine! So please cease from opining. I, on the other hand, will continue to engage my thinking processes.

big difference between saying that we have no idea what happened and whatever you believe "opine" to mean or it could be a reading issue for you so I don't want to sound mean. Is english your first language?


Of course there is a big difference! I have no idea about whether many things have happened, but why should that stop me trying to figure out something rationally? You have stated you know nothing about what happened, so leave those of us who want to wrestle with the case be and go on about your business of staying above the fray. And what was that about sarcasm?
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:13 pm

polevaultpower wrote:If I was living in SA, a place with frequent break-ins by violent criminals, and I was staying at my boyfriend's house, someone who is known for being wealthy and has received threats in the past, and if I was in the relative safety of a toilet inside a larger bathroom, and then I heard my boyfriend shouting that there was an intruder... my response would be to lock the door and keep quiet so the intruder doesn't know where I am.

We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.

I have a friend in South Africa. She and her husband have been hijacked twice, it is very common there. Last time it happened as her husband was pulling into the house (they have a gate, as do most middle class South Africans). She hid in the bathroom with her girls and tried desperately to nurse the baby to keep her quiet, while hearing her husband outside begging for his life. She says a person down the road from them has been robbed seven times and three people have been hijacked in the past three months. Most of the crime does not get reported by the press unless it is particularly violent, as it is so common. Almost everyone they know has been hijacked or robbed, and they know quite a few people who have been killed by robbers, some who were killed while resisting and some who were killed even though they weren't resisting. One of her friends was hijacked and barely got her kids out of the car in time. They don't normally take kids, but that happens too, there is always a market for human trafficking.

So yes, I think there is a _possibility_ that Reeva's fight or flight response to hearing her boyfriend hollering about an intruder would be to lock herself in the toilet and keep quiet.


The problem I have with the Pistorius story as has been presented is the multiple angles which there are at least a few leaps beyond what would be considered normal. Based on his own words, he retrieved a gun from the bedroom. The same bedroom the girlfriend would have been sleeping in. If there were an intruder in the home, why would he not either notice her not in the bed or at least attempt to alert her to the fact that she needed to seek safety. That in itself, to me, is pretty bizarre. Then, when he begins to yell out to her to call the police....and why didn't he do that while in the bedroom in the first place.....he gets no answer and then he gets no answer from inside the bathroom...again why wouldn't she answer.....and then simply starts firing away.

One of these might be explainable but there are just too many to me to make any sense at all.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Dutra5 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:19 pm

Pego wrote:
polevaultpower wrote:We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.


Pistorius said that he was screaming at Reeva to call the police. How could she mistake that for a burglar and remain quiet in the bathroom?


Since he said he was in the bedroom where he supposedly thought she was sleeping, why did he wait until he was out of the bedroom to start screaming back into another room to call the police. Why didn't he tell her in the bedroom to call the police?
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:20 pm

If the only source for the story "that Reeva was locked quietly in a bathroom" when she was shot to death by her boyfriend is her boyfriend I can not see how one would make any inferences regarding his innocence based on that information.

Now if the forensics determine that she was actually quiet in the bathroom, trembling for fear to get away from an "intruder" rather than trembling to stay alive away from a raging nutty boyfriend, then there is some useful information in that fact.

Based on the eons history of mankind in these scenarios Ill bet that there was a raging nutty boyfriend.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby kevinsdad » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:46 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
The problem I have with the Pistorius story as has been presented is the multiple angles which there are at least a few leaps beyond what would be considered normal. Based on his own words, he retrieved a gun from the bedroom. The same bedroom the girlfriend would have been sleeping in. If there were an intruder in the home, why would he not either notice her not in the bed or at least attempt to alert her to the fact that she needed to seek safety. That in itself, to me, is pretty bizarre. Then, when he begins to yell out to her to call the police....and why didn't he do that while in the bedroom in the first place.....he gets no answer and then he gets no answer from inside the bathroom...again why wouldn't she answer.....and then simply starts firing away.

One of these might be explainable but there are just too many to me to make any sense at all.


By his own farfetched account, the sounds of his girlfriend using his bathroom sent him into such a panic that he lost the ability to act rationally, such was his paranoia about home intruders. Yet, if he was really so paranoid that the armed patrols and other neighborhood security measures didn't satisfy him, why was his property not protected by a fence, and his windows and doors not barred? Why didn't he have an activated alarm system? Just one more thing in his story that makes no sense.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:54 pm

batonless relay wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:Polevaultpower's explanation simply shows one plausible solution. However, if what has been reported is true, that of her skull having been fractured by the cricket bat, then that scenario is unlikely.

It is possible if a fit of rage, he hit her in the head with the bat, she ran for protection and locked herself in the bathroom. Subsequently, either through her verbal communication or his realizing his life would forever be changed anyway he concocted the story and shot her through the door as some kind of excuse that the police/public might by.

it is not refreshing to see that you're competing with polevaultpower's reasonable "explanation" by concocting something profane and outrageously extreme. She made a plausible scenario for why someone would remain quiet in the bathroom with the door locked and you continue to muddy the waters.


But this scenario is far more plausible and the one that i'm going with at the moment
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:28 pm

kevinsdad wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
The problem I have with the Pistorius story as has been presented is the multiple angles which there are at least a few leaps beyond what would be considered normal. Based on his own words, he retrieved a gun from the bedroom. The same bedroom the girlfriend would have been sleeping in. If there were an intruder in the home, why would he not either notice her not in the bed or at least attempt to alert her to the fact that she needed to seek safety. That in itself, to me, is pretty bizarre. Then, when he begins to yell out to her to call the police....and why didn't he do that while in the bedroom in the first place.....he gets no answer and then he gets no answer from inside the bathroom...again why wouldn't she answer.....and then simply starts firing away.

One of these might be explainable but there are just too many to me to make any sense at all.


By his own farfetched account, the sounds of his girlfriend using his bathroom sent him into such a panic that he lost the ability to act rationally, such was his paranoia about home intruders. Yet, if he was really so paranoid that the armed patrols and other neighborhood security measures didn't satisfy him, why was his property not protected by a fence, and his windows and doors not barred? Why didn't he have an activated alarm system? Just one more thing in his story that makes no sense.


Why were the police called previously and that night ?

How and why did burglars manage to climb in a bathroom window on (at least) the 2nd floor, in a gated community that hadn't had a break in for 5 years ??

Why would they lock themselves in a bathroom cubicle ?

If they had, why not fire a warning shot ?

Why not call the police ?

We've already gone over, why not tell your girlfriend ?

How does a cricket bat help you break down a door ?

Not confirmed but why where the shots at a downwards angle ?

Whatever the content, why did he have syringes ?

Why did he carry her downstairs ?

How did his dad and agent get to the house before the police ?

I may not live in SA but i do live in a particularly dodgy part of London and i have a spare room that different models stay on all the time. There is not a scenario in the world in which i wake up and hear noises in the bathroom and assume it's robbers rather than the other people in my house.

I don't live in a gated community and the other people aren't sleeping in the bed next to me but it is inconceivable that i would indiscriminately shoot at persons unknown !!

His story is so full of holes it's a joke, it sounds like something he came up with on the back of fag packet between calling his agent and the police

Even if i'm totally wrong and it was all a big accident, he still deserves to be locked up for years anyway :x
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby gh » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:00 pm

somehow, this is all starting to have the touch and feel of a creative writing class :mrgreen:
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:47 pm

Oscar Pistorious has held a "private' memorial for Reeva,

http://news.sky.com/story/1057309/pisto ... -for-reeva

yet manages to tell the whole world about it !!
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:14 pm

mump boy wrote: Yet, if he was really so paranoid that the armed patrols and other neighborhood security measures didn't satisfy him, why was his property not protected by a fence, and his windows and doors not barred? Why didn't he have an activated alarm system? Just one more thing in his story that makes no sense.


Indeed.

mump boy wrote: How and why did burglars manage to climb in a bathroom window on (at least) the 2nd floor, in a gated community that hadn't had a break in for 5 years ?? Why would they lock themselves in a bathroom cubicle ?

analyzing the machinations of a bald-faced liar is a fools errand.

mump boy wrote:If they had, why not fire a warning shot ?Why not call the police ?

firing a warning shot is usually not a good idea in a residential environment. The great efficacy of a firearm is that you can instantly stop a murderer. Guns should never be used unless innocent life is in great and immediate danger and you are certain that you are shooting to stop a violent crime. That is a rough summary approximation, in common language, of the law in most states in the US . SA may vary from this but I doubt by very much. I dont own a gun but I have read many cases where women have saved their lives and the lives of their children during a home invasion with the use of a firearm. It might be said that the best defense against rape or murder that a woman has is a firearm, not her boyfriend.

mump boy wrote:We've already gone over, why not tell your girlfriend ?

he was in the process of murdering her.

mump boy wrote:I may not live in SA but i do live in a particularly dodgy part of London and i have a spare room that different models stay on all the time. There is not a scenario in the world in which i wake up and hear noises in the bathroom and assume it's robbers rather than the other people in my house.
I don't live in a gated community and the other people aren't sleeping in the bed next to me but it is inconceivable that i would indiscriminately shoot at persons unknown !!

you are a reasonable person.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:44 pm

OP said that she did not call out; we are missing her testimony. His testimony can be checked for consistency and feasibility, but little that he says can readily be taken as reliable in any normal, or legal sense.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby polevaultpower » Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:25 am

Pego wrote:
polevaultpower wrote:We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.


Pistorius said that he was screaming at Reeva to call the police. How could she mistake that for a burglar and remain quiet in the bathroom?


If I'm Reeva, and _if_ his version of events is true, I am assuming that he has actually seen an intruder, and I'm thinking that I don't want the burglar to know where I am because I don't want to get kidnapped/raped/murdered.

As far as how could OP not realize she was not in bed? If you have a dark room, a fluffy comforter, and you're in full panic mode, it could be easy to see lumps in the comforter out of the corner of your eye and assume she was there. I doubt she neatly made the bed before she got up to pee. One time in college I was at an away meet, and when I went to go to bed, I thought my bedmate had snuck her boyfriend in, so I slept on the couch. I was wrong.


And for the record, even if everything OP says is true, he still deserves to be locked up in jail IMO. Believing his story doesn't mean that you think he deserves no punishment.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 18.99s » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:02 am

mump boy wrote:Why would they lock themselves in a bathroom cubicle ?

To avoid detection upon realizing the resident is nearby and moving around.

That happened to somebody I know. She came home one day, and was somewhat puzzled to see the bathroom door shut since she lived alone at the time and normally leaves it open after using it. She opened the door and out jumped a burglar. He threw her down (without causing injury, fortunately) and ran through the house and out the front door.

I've also read of burglars hiding in the closet, like this one:
http://www.modbee.com/2012/11/05/244286 ... ng-in.html

So hiding in bathrooms or closets is something that real-life burglars do; it's not far-fetched to expect that a burglar might do that.

Where Pistorius went wrong is with making the unreasonable assumption that a burglar is in the bathroom, when he knew Reeva was spending the night and didn't check where she was. If she had snuck into the house, he'd have a good chance of not being prosecuted, like the guy who shot his daughter after she left her friend's house and snuck back into her family's house and hid in the closet.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 18.99s » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:36 am

polevaultpower wrote:And for the record, even if everything OP says is true, he still deserves to be locked up in jail IMO. Believing his story doesn't mean that you think he deserves no punishment.


If everything happened 100% exactly as he described it, he's guilty of manslaughter (or "culpable homicide" as they call it in South Africa). He was negligent in firing at the door without first taking reasonable steps to determine who was or wasn't behind the door, like checking the bed instead of assuming she was still in the bed.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 18.99s » Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:42 am

batonless relay wrote:Multiple gun ownership, at least in the USA, does not mean that someone is either paranoid or schizophrenic.


If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:00 am

18.99s wrote:
batonless relay wrote:Multiple gun ownership, at least in the USA, does not mean that someone is either paranoid or schizophrenic.


If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.

I agree that they're probably going to do something stupid one day (though they obviously might not) but that doesn't mean that they're a criminal, paranoid or even schizophrenic. I see gun ownership for some people similar to how I see some people who buy the largest SUV's or biggest engine or Rottweiler or Pit Bull dogs; it's this need to be more powerful than they are or need to be.

I don't always agree with this guy, and i'm not trying to get in a debate about gun ownership, pro or con, but I think most can agree that Jason Whitlock was right when he said:
Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it.

Whether there was a burglar there or not, whether the young couple had a fight or not, Reeva Steenkamp would most likely be alive today if Oscar Pistorius didn't have a gun.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby gh » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:04 am

18.99s wrote:...

If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.


Wrong. You're ignoring a not insubstantial part of the populace: those who collect things. Stamps, coins, knives, guns, you name it. There are no end of normal people who have all kind of guns that they may never even shoot. (for the record, my gut feel is that Pistorious is not one of these, but you're tarring with a way too wide a brush here)
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:27 am

My, fairly new, next door neighbor probably has about 200+ guns in his house and he is certainly no nut. From the photos in his house he and his father did a lot of hunting all over the world.

As gh says, some people just collect things. As for myself I own one gun. My grandfather's, the one from Minnesota, shotgun.

But I still think no one needs to buy six new guns at a time. The only exception I could see is for old collectible guns.
Last edited by Conor Dary on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby gibson » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:28 am

until the SA cops prove THEIR competence, i'd definitely leave oscar alone and say he's innocent until proven guilty.

i mean, south africa had / has a real problem with armed intruders and car jackings. i am sure many people are more than concerned many an evening about real and imagined crimes.

so oscar could well have woke up in a dream world where there were intruders and he had to save the day NOW. not wait for a bullet in the head and to see his lovely raped or tortured as is sometimes the custom.

and drug alegations? friends the track world is full of lance armstrongs. full, so don't dump on oscar.

people install flame throwers to disable intruders.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=car+flamethrower+johannesburg&view=detail&id=9616DA458E65D0D990B11B28C140F7A01B65D37C&FORM=IDFRIR
military site talks about the problem
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/st ... 76228.html
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:31 am

Unless OP is reading this thread, I think it hardly matters what we say. And since the majority here probably think he is guilty as hell, it probably just as well he doesn't read it.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby lonewolf » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:38 am

As to multiple gun purchases, I know a guy, avid hunter and gun collector, who buys new guns to swap for collectible guns.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Midnightfeast » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:27 am

18.99s wrote:He was negligent in firing at the door without first taking reasonable steps to determine who was or wasn't behind the door, like checking the bed instead of assuming she was still in the bed.

Quite,
Oscar's shouting would have alerted any burglar to his presence. If the burglar wanted a confrontation, then Oscar would have been attacked when he turned the corner into the bathroom. Any burglar retreating to the bathroom, would be unlikely to be going anywhere. Oscar had the door covered so, he would be safe enough. The guy would have been hiding, hoping Oscar would go away (assuming he wasn't checking the cistern for loot, but Oscar would still have the door covered).
It is at this point, Oscar should be shouting at Reeva, checking she had/was phoning the police, he had all the time he needed to check who was in the bathroom.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:31 am

gh wrote:
18.99s wrote:...

If you buy six guns in a short period of time, and the guns are not for training for your job or using on the job, you're probably a criminal or a nutcase who is going to do something stupid with one of those guns someday, and I would want to stay far away from you.


Wrong. You're ignoring a not insubstantial part of the populace: those who collect things. Stamps, coins, knives, guns, you name it. There are no end of normal people who have all kind of guns that they may never even shoot. (for the record, my gut feel is that Pistorious is not one of these, but you're tarring with a way too wide a brush here)


I dont own a gun but I can imagine a family coming to the conclusion that they need to have a few firearms in the home for protection of life. They go out and buy more than a few guns. This actually happens, a non-gun owner deciding to become a gun owner, presto-chango, over night, the number of guns they own goes from 0 to 6. All for the reason of protection of life, not because they are collectors or gun lovers, simply because they love their family. I have read that there really is no more fundamental right for a human being than to be able to protect your body from violence . While most males see themselves as able to do that without a weapon, female are very much vulnerable to aggressive males. The firearm is one of the great civilizing tools largely because, as a defensive weapon, it neutralizes the aggression and strength advantage of males vs. females. The average time-to-arrival after a call to the police is not encouraging. Self defense is just common sense.
Last edited by user4 on Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby polevaultpower » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:36 am

We own several guns. My husband is an LEO. We'll probably move out to the boonies again in the next year, possibly an island. I have not enjoyed my experiences shooting guns so far, but I think that I should probably learn how once we are back in a less populated area, where help might be a lot farther away. I hope I never have to, but I like to be prepared for as many situations as possible. Let me tell you how stressful the few months I lived in a tsunami danger zone were!!
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Daisy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:48 am

My husband is an LEO

??
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 502CD » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:55 am

Daisy wrote:
My husband is an LEO

??


I believe its - Law Enforcement Officer.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby polevaultpower » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:58 am

502CD wrote:
Daisy wrote:
My husband is an LEO

??


I believe its - Law Enforcement Officer.


Yup.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby lonewolf » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:02 am

Oh, I thought he was born in August. :)
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Inspector Clouseau - now - The debate on Oscar Pistorius

Postby Tuariki » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:29 am

Conor Dary wrote:Unless OP is reading this thread, I think it hardly matters what we say. And since the majority here probably think he is guilty as hell, it probably just as well he doesn't read it.

I think the issue is "guilty of what".

By his own affidavit OP is, at a minimum, guilty of taking a series of deliberate actions to kill someone when he had no idea who he was killing.

The prosecution are charging him with premeditated murder. The prosecution is, so I understand,defining premeditated at its most basic level. That is, he planned to murder the person who was in the toilet, even if that plan was first hatched as he entered the bathroom.

I don't think the prosecution has any chance of proving he had hatched a plan sometime earlier in the evening to specifically murder Reeva following an argument with Reeva.

Presumably the defense team will try to mount an argument that OP was justified in his actions because it was a natural reaction for him to "freak out and react the way he did because he was justifiably terrified of a possible violent home invasion".

And while one or two posters may strongly disagree with references to terms like paranoia and schizophrenia to describe OP's actions that night, it would seem to me that may be his best line of defense. Sort of like "momentary insanity" where OP couldn't be held liable for his actions.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:42 am

user4 wrote: The firearm is one of the great civilizing tools largely because, as a defensive weapon, it neutralizes the aggression and strength advantage of males vs. females. The average time-to-arrival after a call to the police is not encouraging. Self defense is just common sense.


I don't know how we cope here in the UK :roll:
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Re: Inspector Clouseau - now - The debate on Oscar Pistorius

Postby lionelp1 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:18 pm

mump boy wrote:
user4 wrote: The firearm is one of the great civilizing tools largely because, as a defensive weapon, it neutralizes the aggression and strength advantage of males vs. females. The average time-to-arrival after a call to the police is not encouraging. Self defense is just common sense.


I don't know how we cope here in the UK :roll:


user4... well done . one of the most sick comments ever. :evil: The firearm a civilising defensive weapon... please go and lie down for a while and you will feel much better.
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