Oscar Pistorius suffers memory lapse


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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Tuariki » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:41 pm

gh wrote:You obviously haven't heard about E's new reality series: The Kardashians Meet The Pistorii

I wonder what role "Zombie" Jenner will play?
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Tuariki » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:45 pm

mump boy wrote:I know we're taking press reports with a pinch of salt but this seems a more likely scenario than trying to break down a door with a cricket bat !!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... uries.html

If the UK report turns out to be correct then it would appear that the only logical reason for Pistorius to do whatever it took to get bail is that he is planning to do a "runner". Unusually for me, I have decided to restrain myself and not use another descriptor in place of "runner".
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Fortius19 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:20 pm

From the dailymail link previously listed:

Today, if his athletics coach Ampie Louw has his way, Pistorius could be back in training at the track at the University of Pretoria.


WHAT?!?
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 18.99s » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:17 am

Tuariki wrote:If the UK report turns out to be correct then it would appear that the only logical reason for Pistorius to do whatever it took to get bail is that he is planning to do a "runner". Unusually for me, I have decided to restrain myself and not use another descriptor in place of "runner".


If her skull was crushed by the cricket bat, how would she have been able to go to the toilet room and shut the door before being shot through it? I've dismissed that crushed skull story as another media fabrication. Any injury to her skull was from the bullet.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:13 am

Death penalty for an accidental shooting? Blood thirsty much? That prison would be near empty if deaths of all kind led to the death penalty.

I also believe the whole cricket bat thing is a fabricated media diversion for the daft. The presence of the bat and the blood upon it will ultimately be inconsequential. The cited twitter pictorial is wrong too. It claims to be a re-enactment of Pistorius' words but it's not and that's probably because someone wants to color the opinions of those following the case.

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:31 am

batonless relay wrote:

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.


Yea, he was aiming for the toilet..... :roll:
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:35 am

Conor Dary wrote:
batonless relay wrote:

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.


Yea, he was aiming for the toilet..... :roll:

You are not as clever with your assumptions as you think you are. He said he was aiming for the burglar he believed was in the bathroom.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:48 am

batonless relay wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
batonless relay wrote:

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.


Yea, he was aiming for the toilet..... :roll:

You are not as clever with your assumptions as you think you are. He said he was aiming for the burglar he believed was in the bathroom.


X-ray vision! Or maybe it was N-rays?

However, who knows. The trial will be soon. But it doesn't look good.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:00 am

Conor Dary wrote:
batonless relay wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
batonless relay wrote:

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.


Yea, he was aiming for the toilet..... :roll:

You are not as clever with your assumptions as you think you are. He said he was aiming for the burglar he believed was in the bathroom.


X-ray vision! Or maybe it was N-rays?

However, who knows. The trial will be soon. But it doesn't look good.


The reason the pistorius position meets the average thinking individual with profound incredulity is because it simply conflicts with all of nature, reason and experience.

A man goes to shoot a home invader for one reason, it is to insure that the invader not harm any innocent person's in his home. Every man and woman that has a gun in their home does so for the purpose of protecting innocent life. We are being asked to believe that such a man, alert to an invader actually fired multiple shots at the very one singular person in his care ? This is the most shameless lie of the century.

To believe it one would have to live nearly their entire life through a television tube absorbing ideas of how the world worked as a ancillary effect of eliciting emotions through fantasies. Certainly not through actual experience with real people in the real world.

This guy must have been pampered for so long that it is now impossible for him to consider anything that does not advance his own immediate temporal desires.
Last edited by user4 on Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:12 am

Even if it was an intruder behind the door, why would you just shoot. Call the cops, tell who ever there to leave the way they came in... Unless you just like killing people.
Chicago has intruders all of the time breaking into houses, and I have never heard this tale before.

The only story that makes sense is OP realized he was screwed and had to come up with some story.

Anyways I see this thread heading towards oblivion also....
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:20 am

Conor Dary wrote:Even if it was an intruder behind the door, why would you just shoot. Call the cops, tell who ever there to leave the way they came in... Unless you just like killing people.
Chicago has intruders all of the time breaking into houses, and I have never heard this tale before.

The only story that makes sense is OP realized he was screwed and had to come up with some story.


If you knew it was an intruder you probably wouldnt shoot, but not knowing what the intruder has in his hand or what he is preparing to do , a prosecutor might not seek a murder conviction on you if you did shoot the invader through a door. The point I was making was that this case is completely the opposite. There was no invader, and he shot the one person that he had a duty to protect. He is a bald-faced liar.

Yes, Chicago has some of the worst gun violence in the US but the reason you have never heard such a story there is because it has never happened in Chicago and it didnt happen in SA either.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby jeremyp » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:49 am

batonless relay wrote: The cited twitter pictorial is wrong too. It claims to be a re-enactment of Pistorius' words but it's not

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.


What was accurate about the twitter piece was his statement: "I grabbed my 9 mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police."

So why would she not respond to his screaming? Presumably she knows he has a gun and has expressed previously his fear of break ins, and surely she'd scream out something to warn him of her presence in the bathroom!
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:35 am

jeremyp wrote:
batonless relay wrote: The cited twitter pictorial is wrong too. It claims to be a re-enactment of Pistorius' words but it's not

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.


What was accurate about the twitter piece was his statement: "I grabbed my 9 mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police."

So why would she not respond to his screaming? Presumably she knows he has a gun and has expressed previously his fear of break ins, and surely she'd scream out something to warn him of her presence in the bathroom!

How about some of you not guess what Pistorius' intent was or what his frame of mind was; that will only lead to posts that are sure to get this thread locked like the previous thread. Until the media reports are entered into evidence in a court of law, it is presumptuous to understand them as facts. Aside from the prosecutor, the only additional testimony is the written testimony of Pistorius. Read it at the following link http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-575 ... own-words/ and you will see discrepancy's with the twitter illustration, which is nothing more than bad comedy.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby jeremyp » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:14 pm

batonless relay wrote:
jeremyp wrote:
batonless relay wrote: The cited twitter pictorial is wrong too. It claims to be a re-enactment of Pistorius' words but it's not

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.


What was accurate about the twitter piece was his statement: "I grabbed my 9 mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police."

So why would she not respond to his screaming? Presumably she knows he has a gun and has expressed previously his fear of break ins, and surely she'd scream out something to warn him of her presence in the bathroom!

How about some of you not guess what Pistorius' intent was or what his frame of mind was; that will only lead to posts that are sure to get this thread locked like the previous thread. Until the media reports are entered into evidence in a court of law, it is presumptuous to understand them as facts. Aside from the prosecutor, the only additional testimony is the written testimony of Pistorius. Read it at the following link http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-575 ... own-words/ and you will see discrepancy's with the twitter illustration, which is nothing more than bad comedy.

How about you not presuming I'm guessing when I'm taking it from what he said. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/1 ... 17604.html. I stand by my comment. Who the hell is going to sit mute on a toilet with your boyfriend screaming at the door about burglars? Unless of course you think it was "suicide by boyfriend."
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby mump boy » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:57 pm

batonless relay wrote:Death penalty for an accidental shooting? .


There is absolutely nothing accidental about this shooting. It remains to be seen if the result was accidental but the shooting was 100% intended.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby kuha » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:11 pm

mump boy wrote:
batonless relay wrote:Death penalty for an accidental shooting? .


There is absolutely nothing accidental about this shooting. It remains to be seen if the result was accidental but the shooting was 100% intended.


Precisely right.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:21 pm

jeremyp wrote:
batonless relay wrote:
jeremyp wrote:
batonless relay wrote: The cited twitter pictorial is wrong too. It claims to be a re-enactment of Pistorius' words but it's not

Pistorius said he shot through the door and he accidentally killed her. That's a good place to start and the trial will suss out the truth, hopefully.


What was accurate about the twitter piece was his statement: "I grabbed my 9 mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police."

So why would she not respond to his screaming? Presumably she knows he has a gun and has expressed previously his fear of break ins, and surely she'd scream out something to warn him of her presence in the bathroom!

How about some of you not guess what Pistorius' intent was or what his frame of mind was; that will only lead to posts that are sure to get this thread locked like the previous thread. Until the media reports are entered into evidence in a court of law, it is presumptuous to understand them as facts. Aside from the prosecutor, the only additional testimony is the written testimony of Pistorius. Read it at the following link http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-575 ... own-words/ and you will see discrepancy's with the twitter illustration, which is nothing more than bad comedy.

How about you not presuming I'm guessing when I'm taking it from what he said. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/1 ... 17604.html. I stand by my comment. Who the hell is going to sit mute on a toilet with your boyfriend screaming at the door about burglars? Unless of course you think it was "suicide by boyfriend."

Calm down. In your huff you don't realize that what you linked to has nothing to do with the twitter comment in your initial post and your sarcasm invalidates whatever point you're trying to make (but that would be my presumption that you're trying to make one). Neither you, nor I, have any idea of what Ms. Steenkamps flight/fight responses are when scared. I admit that I have no idea what happened that night but I'm tickled by all of you who are absolutely convinced that you do know what happened that night, yet you haven't flown to South Africa to submit testimony.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:36 pm

It does seem a bit odd that Pistorius would move past the bed, not alert his girlfriend to get out of harms way, start screaming after leaving the bedroom to call the cops and to the person behind the door and the girlfriend...or anyone...would sit mute on the toilet.

That's just a bit too fantastic to believe.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Dave » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:00 pm

I understand there won't be a jury. Does South Africa's system resemble the US system in that the defense is to acquit the defendant no matter what or reduce the sentence if that is not possible? Likewise, is the prosecutor supposed to prove his or her case no matter what within the limits of the law?

If that is the case, I suspect most of our conjecture will be set aside quickly and most, if not all, of the really fantastical stories we have heard from the defense will be blown away.

Ultimately, there will be three professionals in the room who are under a tremendous amount of scrutiny and pressure to do their jobs and at least two of them will be under pressure to make sure this is absolutely clean.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Pego » Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:54 pm

Dutra5 wrote:It does seem a bit odd that Pistorius would move past the bed, not alert his girlfriend to get out of harms way, start screaming after leaving the bedroom to call the cops and to the person behind the door and the girlfriend...or anyone...would sit mute on the toilet.

That's just a bit too fantastic to believe.


Preposterous. If I sat on the toilet in the middle of the night and my wife came with a gun screaming to get out, I would say something like, "Are you nuts? It's me, no burglars here."
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Tuariki » Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:54 pm

So what are the facts that are not in dispute? They appear to be:

* OP intended to kill the person inside the toilet
* OP achieved his intention
* OP shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp
* OP used a Glock pistol to shoot Reeva
* OP fired 4 bullets
* 3 of these bullets hit Reeva

And what is in dispute?

* OP says he thought it was a burglar in the toilet
* OP says he did not know it was Reeva in the toilet
* OP says he walked past the bed and did not notice Reeva was not there
* OP did not hear Reeva calling - after he yelled to Reeva, after shot 1, shot 2, shot 3, shot 4
* OP used the cricket bat to break the toilet door
* OP did not hit Reeva with the cricket bat
* The shots were fired from a height which would have required OP to have his legs on
* OP and Reeva were having a loud argument earlier in the night
* OP was in love with Reeva
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby polevaultpower » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:09 pm

If I was living in SA, a place with frequent break-ins by violent criminals, and I was staying at my boyfriend's house, someone who is known for being wealthy and has received threats in the past, and if I was in the relative safety of a toilet inside a larger bathroom, and then I heard my boyfriend shouting that there was an intruder... my response would be to lock the door and keep quiet so the intruder doesn't know where I am.

We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.

I have a friend in South Africa. She and her husband have been hijacked twice, it is very common there. Last time it happened as her husband was pulling into the house (they have a gate, as do most middle class South Africans). She hid in the bathroom with her girls and tried desperately to nurse the baby to keep her quiet, while hearing her husband outside begging for his life. She says a person down the road from them has been robbed seven times and three people have been hijacked in the past three months. Most of the crime does not get reported by the press unless it is particularly violent, as it is so common. Almost everyone they know has been hijacked or robbed, and they know quite a few people who have been killed by robbers, some who were killed while resisting and some who were killed even though they weren't resisting. One of her friends was hijacked and barely got her kids out of the car in time. They don't normally take kids, but that happens too, there is always a market for human trafficking.

So yes, I think there is a _possibility_ that Reeva's fight or flight response to hearing her boyfriend hollering about an intruder would be to lock herself in the toilet and keep quiet.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Tuariki » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:02 am

I think polevaultpower has put up the most credible scenario of how this incident played out.

It doesn't make any logical sense that OP decided to deliberately murder RS. OP strikes me as having traits of a paranoid schizophrenic.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Tuariki » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:02 am

I think polevaultpower has put up the most credible scenario of how this incident played out.

It doesn't make any logical sense that OP decided to deliberately murder RS. OP strikes me as having traits of a paranoid schizophrenic.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:27 am

Tuariki wrote:So what are the facts that are not in dispute? They appear to be:

* OP intended to kill the person inside the toilet (Nonsense! Shooting at and intent to kill are different)
* OP achieved his intention (More nonsense. If "a" is untrue, then "b" is untrue)
* OP shot and killed Reeva Steenkamp
* OP used a Glock pistol to shoot Reeva
* OP fired 4 bullets
* 3 of these bullets hit Reeva

And what is in dispute?

* OP says he thought it was a burglar in the toilet
* OP says he did not know it was Reeva in the toilet
* OP says he walked past the bed and did not notice Reeva was not there
* OP did not hear Reeva calling - after he yelled to Reeva, after shot 1, shot 2, shot 3, shot 4 (For him to hear her she would have to call back. show one link to an instance where it was written that Reeva called to Oscar)
* OP used the cricket bat to break the toilet door
* OP did not hit Reeva with the cricket bat
* The shots were fired from a height which would have required OP to have his legs on
* OP and Reeva were having a loud argument earlier in the night
* OP was in love with Reeva (are you serious?)


polevaultpower's point crossed my mind from the beginning. I'm more surprised that many of you couldn't have extended Pistorius that minuscule benefit of the doubt. Now Oscar Pistorius is a paranoid schizophrenic? Based upon what? If nearly everything you wrote is in dispute how could you possibly know that? You have examined him? I think, without having any idea whatsoever, that he was a man with a gun who was scared well beyond the area of expertise he was "trained" (trained himself) to deal with and things just went out of control. (individual gun owners routinely make [bad] choices to pull the trigger that a soldier or policeman would not make in the same circumstance)

Fact: Pistorius reports to authorities as part of bail conditions http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/fe ... ities-bail
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby user4 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:24 am

batonless relay wrote:polevaultpower's point crossed my mind from the beginning. I'm more surprised that many of you couldn't have extended Pistorius that minuscule benefit of the doubt. Now Oscar Pistorius is a paranoid schizophrenic? Based upon what? If nearly everything you wrote is in dispute how could you possibly know that? You have examined him? I think, without having any idea whatsoever, that he was a man with a gun who was scared well beyond the area of expertise he was "trained" (trained himself) to deal with and things just went out of control. (individual gun owners routinely make [bad] choices to pull the trigger that a soldier or policeman would not make in the same circumstance)

Fact: Pistorius reports to authorities as part of bail conditions http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/fe ... ities-bail


Blaming her death on the countless robbers and rapists and murderers in SA makes some sense if there were a few in his apartment that night. It would make near perfect sense if she were a cross fire casualty while he shot and killed a few of them. But they werent there and he didnt , rather he killed the one innocent person he was supposed to protect that night while perfectly alone in his apartment with her. If he blames this on a high crime rate in SA he is despicable.

Stat: the vast majority of female murders are committed by their boyfriends/husbands.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:02 am

Polevaultpower's explanation simply shows one plausible solution. However, if what has been reported is true, that of her skull having been fractured by the cricket bat, then that scenario is unlikely.

It is possible that in a fit of rage, he hit her in the head with the bat, she ran for protection and locked herself in the bathroom. Subsequently, either through her verbal communication or his realizing his life would forever be changed anyway he concocted the story and shot her through the door as some kind of excuse that the police/public might by.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:08 am

odelltrclan wrote:Polevaultpower's explanation simply shows one plausible solution. However, if what has been reported is true, that of her skull having been fractured by the cricket bat, then that scenario is unlikely.

It is possible if a fit of rage, he hit her in the head with the bat, she ran for protection and locked herself in the bathroom. Subsequently, either through her verbal communication or his realizing his life would forever be changed anyway he concocted the story and shot her through the door as some kind of excuse that the police/public might by.

it is not refreshing to see that you're competing with polevaultpower's reasonable "explanation" by concocting something profane and outrageously extreme. She made a plausible scenario for why someone would remain quiet in the bathroom with the door locked and you continue to muddy the waters.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:40 am

batonless relay wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:Polevaultpower's explanation simply shows one plausible solution. However, if what has been reported is true, that of her skull having been fractured by the cricket bat, then that scenario is unlikely.

It is possible if a fit of rage, he hit her in the head with the bat, she ran for protection and locked herself in the bathroom. Subsequently, either through her verbal communication or his realizing his life would forever be changed anyway he concocted the story and shot her through the door as some kind of excuse that the police/public might by.

it is not refreshing to see that you're competing with polevaultpower's reasonable "explanation" by concocting something profane and outrageously extreme. She made a plausible scenario for why someone would remain quiet in the bathroom with the door locked and you continue to muddy the waters.


Looking at what is most likely, PVP's is a possible, but not likely, interpretation, given what we know. Actually, it seems to be absent what seems to be the case of the bat being used on her. That is up to forensics, but I think the new crew in charge out outmaneuvered OP and his team.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby polevaultpower » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:07 am

We won't know until trial what the facts are about the bat, everything in the press right now is just rumors. It certainly appears that it will be a key piece of evidence either way.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:31 am

batonless relay wrote:it is not refreshing to see that you're competing with polevaultpower's reasonable "explanation" by concocting something profane and outrageously extreme. She made a plausible scenario for why someone would remain quiet in the bathroom with the door locked and you continue to muddy the waters.


Profane and extreme? Are you kidding me?! :roll: What I proposed is no less plausible and far more likely. If you hold to the ideal that OP is innocent, cling to PVP's theory with all your might. But one day wake up to reality. There is almost nothing that can explain what happened in realistic way where he comes out innocent.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:00 am

odelltrclan wrote:
batonless relay wrote:it is not refreshing to see that you're competing with polevaultpower's reasonable "explanation" by concocting something profane and outrageously extreme. She made a plausible scenario for why someone would remain quiet in the bathroom with the door locked and you continue to muddy the waters.


Profane and extreme? Are you kidding me?! :roll: What I proposed is no less plausible and far more likely. If you hold to the ideal that OP is innocent, cling to PVP's theory with all your might. But one day wake up to reality. There is almost nothing that can explain what happened in realistic way where he comes out innocent.

Innocent? I never said that nor implied it. He has already admitted that he shot through the door. The only question is whether or not he knew Ms. Steenkamp was behind the door. He said that he didn't know Ms. Steenkamp was behind the door and I think that is reasonable. What is *not* reasonable is saying that he "concocted" the story when you can't possibly know that. what is *not reasonable* is saying that "there is nothing that can explain what happened..." when polevaultpower made a plausible explanation of what *could have* happened. (Please note that *could have* is emphasized so that it is not mistake with did) Some of us have tried to be reasonable from the start and some of you have made no attempt. So to answer your question: no, I am not kidding you.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby jeremyp » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:11 am

batonless relay wrote: Neither you, nor I, have any idea of what Ms. Steenkamps flight/fight responses are when scared. I admit that I have no idea what happened that night but I'm tickled by all of you who are absolutely convinced that you do know what happened that night, yet you haven't flown to South Africa to submit testimony.

Fine! You agree that you have no opinion and no wish to opine! So please cease from opining. I, on the other hand, will continue to engage my thinking processes.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby jeremyp » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:14 am

polevaultpower wrote:If I was living in SA, a place with frequent break-ins by violent criminals, and I was staying at my boyfriend's house, someone who is known for being wealthy and has received threats in the past, and if I was in the relative safety of a toilet inside a larger bathroom, and then I heard my boyfriend shouting that there was an intruder... my response would be to lock the door and keep quiet so the intruder doesn't know where I am.

We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.

I have a friend in South Africa. She and her husband have been hijacked twice, it is very common there. Last time it happened as her husband was pulling into the house (they have a gate, as do most middle class South Africans). She hid in the bathroom with her girls and tried desperately to nurse the baby to keep her quiet, while hearing her husband outside begging for his life. She says a person down the road from them has been robbed seven times and three people have been hijacked in the past three months. Most of the crime does not get reported by the press unless it is particularly violent, as it is so common. Almost everyone they know has been hijacked or robbed, and they know quite a few people who have been killed by robbers, some who were killed while resisting and some who were killed even though they weren't resisting. One of her friends was hijacked and barely got her kids out of the car in time. They don't normally take kids, but that happens too, there is always a market for human trafficking.

So yes, I think there is a _possibility_ that Reeva's fight or flight response to hearing her boyfriend hollering about an intruder would be to lock herself in the toilet and keep quiet.

A reasonable supposition. There is still the nagging question of why OP decided to fire into a locked bathroom when all he heard was.....silence.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:15 am

jeremyp wrote:
batonless relay wrote: Neither you, nor I, have any idea of what Ms. Steenkamps flight/fight responses are when scared. I admit that I have no idea what happened that night but I'm tickled by all of you who are absolutely convinced that you do know what happened that night, yet you haven't flown to South Africa to submit testimony.

Fine! You agree that you have no opinion and no wish to opine! So please cease from opining. I, on the other hand, will continue to engage my thinking processes.

big difference between saying that we have no idea what happened and whatever you believe "opine" to mean or it could be a reading issue for you so I don't want to sound mean. Is english your first language?
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:24 am

batonless relay wrote:Innocent? I never said that nor implied it. He has already admitted that he shot through the door. The only question is whether or not he knew Ms. Steenkamp was behind the door. He said that he didn't know Ms. Steenkamp was behind the door and I think that is reasonable. What is *not* reasonable is saying that he "concocted" the story when you can't possibly know that. what is *not reasonable* is saying that "there is nothing that can explain what happened..." when polevaultpower made a plausible explanation of what *could have* happened. (Please note that *could have* is emphasized so that it is not mistake with did) Some of us have tried to be reasonable from the start and some of you have made no attempt. So to answer your question: no, I am not kidding you.


If you read both threads you would see that I have been one to give OP the benefit of the doubt with PVP. She opined a plausible explanation, which is exactly what I did. I never spoke it as fact. Others have given their opinions as well. And to suggest hers is the only reasonable explanation for what happened is ludicrous. Unlike others, I, nor most of they, go into a hissy fit when they don't agree with other posters. This appears to be something you have a problem dealing with. So please make an attempt to calm yourself down. What are these message boards other than people discussing current events and their take on that. If you can't handle it, go to Letsrun where you can talk unabashedly and demean people to your hearts content.
Last edited by odelltrclan on Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby batonless relay » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:32 am

odell, unless please re-read your own posts and you will see that they are the quivalent of emotional outburst, not as bad as user4, but ... anyway, please calm down. Also until more information is added to the Pistorius case there will be nothing more for me to discuss with individual posters. Have a calm day, please. No need to get a heart attack.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby gh » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:33 am

batonless relay wrote:.... Is english your first language?


Another comment like that and you're on vacation. We don't take that kind of tone around here. Thanks.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby kuha » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:41 am

odelltrclan wrote:If you read both threads you would see that I have been one to give OP the benefit of the doubt with PVP. She opined and plausible explanation, which is exactly what I did. I never spoke it as fact. Other have given their opinions as well. And to suggest hers is the only reasonable explanation for what happened is ludicrous. Unlike others, I nor most of they, go into a hissy fit when they don't agree with other posters. This appears to be something you have a problem dealing with. So please make an attempt to calm yourself down. What are these message boards other than people discussing current events and their take on that. If you can't handle it, go to Letsrun where you can talk unabashedly and demean people to your hearts content.


Yes, totally. I give odelltrclan my proxy vote on this thread.

The bottom line here is that no one deserves special pleading. The facts are there to be analyzed. If that is done properly, then the legal truth will emerge. But it goes without saying that Pistorius is beginning in something of a deep hole. And that his guilt or innocence is utterly unrelated to whether he is seen as some sort of track "hero" or not.
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Re: Inspector Clouseau is alive and well in Pretoria

Postby Pego » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:37 am

polevaultpower wrote:We don't know if that is what happened or not, but it is possible that Reeva believed OP that there was an intruder, and was hidden in the bathroom to protect herself, having no idea that OP thought _she_ was the intruder. She may have died believing an intruder shot her.


Pistorius said that he was screaming at Reeva to call the police. How could she mistake that for a burglar and remain quiet in the bathroom?
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