Pistorius implicated in a murder


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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby observer2 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:45 pm

I always been against Pistorius as a sportsman..mentioned also here a few times the last 4-5 years. Ridiculous it has been to see his fake blades. About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html
This mornings event is a sad next step that prove he (and the fake blade running) should have been stopped years ago. He never was what he pretended to be and now it´s over. A young woman is dead and he can be just another simple weapon addict and a murderer.
Last edited by observer2 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby eldanielfire » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:58 pm

TN1965 wrote:
eldanielfire wrote: It may be silly, but if athletes use their personality to sell products then they become resonsible when that character is revelaed to be b##ls##t. If an athlete doesnt sell themselves personally to earn money than fair enough. However every one of them does so it's fair game if they turn out to be not what they project to the public for money.

There is also the factor that roles models are signifcant and required in society and culture, especially for children who do copy role models in their lives. Regardless of your opinion if you create a public profile and make use of fame for money or attention then you take on responsibility for infulencing impressionable minds, regardless of if you want it or not.


Then it is the consumers' own fault that they are duped into a false image. If they ignore athletes product endorsement not related to their sports, then sponsors will stop paying them big money.

As for the need for role models, there are many adults that children personally know. Those people are far better as role models than those you have seen only on the TV screen.


To children having rolemodels are not a matter of being in somebodies lives at home or on TV, it is a matter of their status, in the family or in society, it matters not a jot.

In an evolutionary sense we exist in tribes and are dependent upon us for survival and look to adults in the tribe tod evelope new learning. Children are not rational and capable decision makers so if somebody promotes themselves for attention or money they are making themselves a rolemodel in the childrens and young adults lives regadless of the other people in their lives and thus must accept the responsibilities for those actions.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby eldanielfire » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:00 pm

observer2 wrote:I always been against Pistorius as a sportsman..mentioned also here a few times the last 4-5 years. Ridiculous it has been to see his fake blades. About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html
This mornings event is a sad next step that prove he (and the fake blade running) should have been stopped years ago. He never was what he pretended to be and now it´s over. A young woman is dead and yet another simple weapon addict is a murderer.


Woah, while I agree the facts look thta wya at the moment, let's wait to see if all the facts are available now before we pass judgement.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kellits2gnv » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:10 pm

observer2 wrote:I always been against Pistorius as a sportsman..mentioned also here a few times the last 4-5 years. Ridiculous it has been to see his fake blades. About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html
This mornings event is a sad next step that prove he (and the fake blade running) should have been stopped years ago. He never was what he pretended to be and now it´s over. A young woman is dead and yet another simple weapon addict is a murderer.


Congrats on being jealous of (and presumably envious of?) a man born with no legs. Jeez.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby lonewolf » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:21 pm

As I have stated before, I do not understand how anyone is influenced to purchase a product because it is "endorsed" by a celebrity or athlete. (Admittedly, I will not purchase anything endorsed by some celebrities.)
Apparently, the marketing people have a different opinion. :?
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby observer2 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:21 pm

kellits2gnv wrote:
observer2 wrote:I always been against Pistorius as a sportsman..mentioned also here a few times the last 4-5 years. Ridiculous it has been to see his fake blades. About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html
This mornings event is a sad next step that prove he (and the fake blade running) should have been stopped years ago. He never was what he pretended to be and now it´s over. A young woman is dead and yet another simple weapon addict is a murderer.


Congrats on being jealous of (and presumably envious of?) a man born with no legs. Jeez.


Envious? I think you totally misunderstand the situation.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby TN1965 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:26 pm

lonewolf wrote:As I have stated before, I do not understand how anyone is influenced to purchase a product because it is "endorsed" by a celebrity or athlete. (Admittedly, I will not purchase anything endorsed by some celebrities.)
Apparently, the marketing people have a different opinion. :?


Well, if Meb endorses a pair of running shoes, that's worth something. (Not that I want to run with a pair of Skechers.) On the other hand, I have no interest in the razor Federer is using. (Tennis rackets, yes, if I were a tennis player.)
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:26 pm

TN1965 wrote:Basically, it is silly to look up to famed athletes as "role models" because we personally don't know them.

Tiger is good at hitting golf balls. Whether his marriage was a mess or he has manipulative character has nothing to do with that. We should enjoy watching him playing golf, and noting more. I do not go into the case of Lance, because his "offense" is related to his sport itself...


Very well put. I agree completely on both cases.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby observer2 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:38 pm

Tuariki wrote:
Dave wrote:


How many big name endorsers have gone down in flames lately? Armstrong, Pistorius, Paterno, various baseball players, Tiger Woods, etc

I was wondering What Nike product was Pistorius endorsing?
Obviously it wasn't footwear.
Is Nike into the manufacturing of bullets?


"The bullet in the chamber" ad..
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more- ... -1.1264274
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby user4 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:28 pm

I find it absolutely abhorent and dangerous to compare other cheaters such Tiger, Armstrong and innumberable other cheating athletes in T&FN/NFL/MBL/NBA etc with a man that murdered someone. To even discuss the various societal ills in sport in the same breath as murder is a horrible wrong in itself, does more damage to society than cheating in a bike race.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby DrJay » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:54 pm

observer2 wrote: About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html


I hadn't heard this before. From the above link:

"Tom Hanks started bidding for the film rights to the story of the young South African with the J-shaped prosthetics. The plot was compelling: the first double-amputee to compete against able-bodied athletes in an Olympic Games, who was listed in 2012 by Time magazine among the world's 100 most-influential people."
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:54 pm

user4 wrote:I find it absolutely abhorent and dangerous to compare other cheaters such Tiger, Armstrong and innumberable other cheating athletes in T&FN/NFL/MBL/NBA etc with a man that murdered someone. To even discuss the various societal ills in sport in the same breath as murder is a horrible wrong in itself, does more damage to society than cheating in a bike race.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wGd2NtdnflY/U ... apping.jpg
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Re: Pistorius - big oops.

Postby JRM » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:08 pm

I think the other thread entitled "Pistorius implicated in murder" is more appropriately named, and seems to be the one taking off.

What a shameful and offensive title for this one. I think gh will do us a favor in closing it.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:32 pm

user4 wrote:I find it absolutely abhorent and dangerous to compare other cheaters such Tiger, Armstrong and innumberable other cheating athletes in T&FN/NFL/MBL/NBA etc with a man that murdered someone. To even discuss the various societal ills in sport in the same breath as murder is a horrible wrong in itself, does more damage to society than cheating in a bike race.


As opposed to "applause" as someone else has done I would ask a question. Shouldn't we wait and find out the details before labeling someone a hardened criminal and murderer? No one on this board knows what happened at his home. His girlfriend was tweeting only yesterday about finding a nice surprise for Valentine's day. I am more apt to believe it was an unfortunate accident than a murder.

I have had yelling at my home once upon a time whether in a spout with a wife, or being angry at kids. I have heard some from other neighbhors. I can only imagine living in adjoining apartments. I think most of us have the good sense of at least waiting to find out accurate details before comparing Pistorius with anyone. What happened is a tragedy regardless of how it happened.
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Re: Pistorius - big oops.

Postby gh » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:43 pm

JRM wrote:I think the other thread entitled "Pistorius implicated in murder" is more appropriately named, and seems to be the one taking off.

What a shameful and offensive title for this one. I think gh will do us a favor in closing it.


gh has been en route from heaven on earth to NYC for most of the day.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Dave » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:30 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
Dave wrote:


How many big name endorsers have gone down in flames lately? Armstrong, Pistorius, Paterno, various baseball players, Tiger Woods, etc


Woods, Armstrong and Pistorius? The loonies are going full board....

Woods had an affair. Who cares. Armstrong was taking EPO, another who cares in the world of cycling.

And then we have a guy who murders someone and somehow they are all the same.....


I never meant to equate their behavior. I am perfectly aware of the difference in magnitude of their misdeeds. I only meant to say that nike's recent record with endorsers has not worked we'll for them.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby mump boy » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:34 am

So he's been to court and the charge is premeditated murder. There is no evidence of a break in and nobody else at the residence

Apparently she was shot through a bathroom door, as if she was trying to get away from him !!
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby peach77 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 2:48 am

I've read this thread (and many others in other places) over the past 24 hours and I really don't know where to start. Firstly, I think it's a sad indictment of our society that this thread has gotten this far with scarce mention of the victim. Yes, he's a celebrity, but a WOMAN HAS DIED! I can't believe people are sat here speculating whether this is all evidence of him being on drugs when we're talking about someone's life.

I also find it disgusting that people are so ready to rip his character apart now when they weren't 48 hours ago. There's an article in the Telegraph newspaper today about Oscar being some sort of gun loving monster- well, it's easy to say now, right? For a quick buck and a cheap headline. I hate this muck raking, what does it achieve?

Personally, I'm devastated. Whatever anyone else believed about him, I truly believe that at the beginning it wasn't about the superstar lifestyle or wanting to win (able bodied) medals- it was about a human being wanting to be accepted by other human beings as the same rather than a freakshow. The terrible thing about this, of course, is that now he's made himself the biggest freakshow of them all...

So, so tragic...
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby mump boy » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:11 am

While i agree with all of the above, i think there is the hint of the Jimmy Saville/Lance Armstrong to this story. It is only now that we get a chance to see behind the massive PR machine that some of the truth may actually come out and people feel safe enough to comment on previous behaviours. People have tried to tell these stories before but have been silenced and threatened with legal action

Where did the initial story about him thinking she was a burglar come from ?? it certainly didn't come from the police or any authorities. It sounds like some very smart spin to me.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby peach77 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:22 am

Oh I agree with that too but, as with the Jimmy Savile stuff, there is an awful lot of stuff coming out that's nonsense from the press...that was more my point
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby schigh » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:03 am

"I never meant to equate their behavior. I am perfectly aware of the difference in magnitude of their misdeeds. I only meant to say that nike's recent record with endorsers has not worked we'll for them."

I don't know that it implicates Nike necessarily (and I'm not a fan of their marketing), but I think it suggests that fame often contributes to people not acting rationally or at least magnifies it. Admittedly, this is an extreme example. I think famous people who are not selfish jerks are so refreshing because it doesn't seem to be the norm.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Pego » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:09 am

peach77 wrote:I also find it disgusting that people are so ready to rip his character apart now when they weren't 48 hours ago.


Are there many things worse than being a murderer? 48 hours ago he was not.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby az2004 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:42 am

i agree with peach77

it only takes a brief momnt to do something stupid

i dont know what happened, and many are only guessing here

it is tragic, for eveyone involved
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:07 am

mump boy wrote:Apparently she was shot through a bathroom door, as if she was trying to get away from him !!


Was that stated in court? Or is it just another media fabrication, like the earlier report about mistaking her for an intruder?
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby user4 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:14 am

Pego wrote:
peach77 wrote:I also find it disgusting that people are so ready to rip his character apart now when they weren't 48 hours ago.


Are there many things worse than being a murderer? 48 hours ago he was not.


Bingo!

We are about to go into the bizarre world of "defense attorney carnival act" where the high powered and high paid firm tries to convince you, the public, that your use of "reasonable doubt" should basically lead you to the following, (that is if you are a reasonable and intelligent person of course):

since no witness saw a tibetan munk, residing in tibet, actually pull the trigger and kill her, and likewise since no witness actually saw bladerunner pull the trigger and kill her, then it logically follows we have to treat bladerunner like a tibetan monk. The defense wants you to know the "facts", that the only eye witness that can testify about what happened is a wonderful fellow named bladerunner and his story is perfectly plausible.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby gh » Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:55 am

There's now a bit on the front page with links to multiple stories. Lots of repetition, obviously, but I think each of them brings something of value to the big picture.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Cooter Brown » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:43 am

I can't find the link unfortunately but I read somewhere that he was arrested for assault on a 19 year old girl back in '09 or so but charges were never filed. She was at a party at his house and he yelled at her to leave. He grabbed her and shoved her out the door and while she was against the door jam, repeatedly slammed the door into her.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:29 am

mump boy wrote:While i agree with all of the above, i think there is the hint of the Jimmy Saville/Lance Armstrong to this story.


Saville and Armstrong? Can we stop with these silly and stupid comparisons. The first is a serial child molester and Armstrong took some PEDs in a sport, that few really care about, rife with the stuff.

Some of you guys really don't like Armstrong, which is fine. But you are off your rockers putting those two names in the same sentence.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:34 am

az2004 wrote:i agree with peach77

it only takes a brief momnt to do something stupid

i dont know what happened, and many are only guessing here

it is tragic, for eveyone involved


Yea, sort of like Oswald was only stupid for a few moments in Dealy Plaza. Those mistakes just sort of happen... :roll:

And with multiple shots I doubt it was any sort of accident.

    Paramedics are already at the scene, trying in vain to save Ms Steenkamp's life. She is declared dead, after being shot in the head and upper body, the spokeswoman says.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Daisy » Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:53 am

az2004 wrote:it only takes a brief moment to do something stupid

A good reason not to have loaded guns all over the house.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:02 am

Daisy wrote:
az2004 wrote:it only takes a brief moment to do something stupid

A good reason not to have loaded guns all over the house.


Not trying to provoke the gun debate again, which I agree is the third rail, but Daisy's comment and this case reminds me of what I read in yesterday's NYTimes.

    “The literature suggests that having a gun in your home to protect your family is like bringing a time bomb into your house,” said Dr. Mark Rosenberg, an epidemiologist who helped establish the C.D.C.’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. “Instead of protecting you, it’s more likely to blow up.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/us/to ... wanted=all
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby az2004 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:07 am

According to the Beeld newspaper, a resident of the upmarket Silver Woods Country Estate said Steenkamp’s body was found in the bathroom

She was apparently shot four times: in the head, chest, pelvis and hand, the report said.

does not sound good for pistorious, without knwing details we can only speculate
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby user4 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:43 am

Conor Dary wrote:
Daisy wrote:
az2004 wrote:it only takes a brief moment to do something stupid

A good reason not to have loaded guns all over the house.


Not trying to provoke the gun debate again, which I agree is the third rail, but Daisy's comment and this case reminds me of what I read in yesterday's NYTimes.

    “The literature suggests that having a gun in your home to protect your family is like bringing a time bomb into your house,” said Dr. Mark Rosenberg, an epidemiologist who helped establish the C.D.C.’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. “Instead of protecting you, it’s more likely to blow up.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/us/to ... wanted=all


Especially if you are looking for a suicide tool. In Europe, a more sophisticated place, they just use drugs . If only the US would learn from our civilized cousins the carpet and wall cleanup at the sucide site would be much more acceptable :

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby user4 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:45 am

Conor Dary wrote:
mump boy wrote:While i agree with all of the above, i think there is the hint of the Jimmy Saville/Lance Armstrong to this story.


Saville and Armstrong? Can we stop with these silly and stupid comparisons. The first is a serial child molester and Armstrong took some PEDs in a sport, that few really care about, rife with the stuff.

Some of you guys really don't like Armstrong, which is fine. But you are off your rockers putting those two names in the same sentence.


frighteningly, dangerously off their rockers.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kuha » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:25 am

user4 wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
mump boy wrote:While i agree with all of the above, i think there is the hint of the Jimmy Saville/Lance Armstrong to this story.


Saville and Armstrong? Can we stop with these silly and stupid comparisons. The first is a serial child molester and Armstrong took some PEDs in a sport, that few really care about, rife with the stuff.

Some of you guys really don't like Armstrong, which is fine. But you are off your rockers putting those two names in the same sentence.


frighteningly, dangerously off their rockers.


Amen. Collapsing all of these cases into some generic sense of "error" is beyond ridiculous.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby az2004 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:14 am

i did have a brief encounter with oscar in 2011 in daegu

he was holding a function in the only big hotel in daegu and we ran into each other in the lobby, and i said oscar how are you

he seemed to be in a hurry and just rushed on to whatever he had to to..

can;t read anything into that, as he easily could have been late

only reason i figured out what was happening was because we trailed him to see where he was going in th hotel
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby mump boy » Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:45 am

You people love hyperbole don't you !!

I obviously wasn't comparing their 'crimes' i was comparing the ability of good PR, money and influence to cover up people's bad behaviour.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby az2004 » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:16 pm

http://money.msn.com/now/post.aspx?post ... 8bb7350b84

ran into this ad about nike and pistorius

who is the rreal oscar

who is the real tiger

who is the real lance

what are we to believe anymore
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Flumpy » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:18 pm

Conor Dary wrote:Saville and Armstrong? Can we stop with these silly and stupid comparisons. The first is a serial child molester and Armstrong took some PEDs in a sport, that few really care about, rife with the stuff.

Some of you guys really don't like Armstrong, which is fine. But you are off your rockers putting those two names in the same sentence.


No one was comparing their behaviour but the media's treatment of them. Mump made a totally valid point.

Just because you stan for Lance Armstrong it doesn't mean you have to take umbrage whenever hos name is mentioned, whatever the context.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kuha » Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:23 pm

Flumpy wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Saville and Armstrong? Can we stop with these silly and stupid comparisons. The first is a serial child molester and Armstrong took some PEDs in a sport, that few really care about, rife with the stuff.

Some of you guys really don't like Armstrong, which is fine. But you are off your rockers putting those two names in the same sentence.


No on was comparing their behaviour but the media's treatment of them, which is a totally valid point.


No it's not. You might have an argument in 6 months, but the Pistorius thing is far too immediate to make any meaningful judgments about "media treatment." And if you re-read the more inane comments above, you WILL see at least some comparison of behaviour.
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