A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (Locked down several times a year during the major championships)
eldanielfire wrote:The shooters identity has never been in doubt so innocent until proven guilty is not the issue. Is it murder or an accident is the question.
Based on information released so far, it's not yet established with certainty that Pistorius was the shooter, and not somebody else who fled the scene.
Certain?
The fact isn't in doubt at the moment, it isn't even being questioned.
The SA police who have refuted the "mistaken intruder" rumour have not at all indicated Pistorius isn't the person who fired the gun that killed her. The press isn't even using "alleged" in their reporting of this at the moment and you would think by now if he was going to claim he wasn't responsible a lawyer would have been stating their client was innocent and hoping the murder is caught by now. The complete lack of denial indicates there is certainty he shot her unless some wildly contridictory evidence comes up. As it's not being challenged it is reasonable to assume he fired the shots that killed her. The question is was it an accident?
In my further reading it appears Pistorius has prieviously spend a night in a cell for apparently assulting a women at his home, his ex has indicated nasty behavour and treatment of women and the SA police has been called for domestic issues previously.
How many big name endorsers have gone down in flames lately? Armstrong, Pistorius, Paterno, various baseball players, Tiger Woods, etc
I don't think it's a Nike Jinx! More like the fact Nike will sponsor virtually any successful athlete without regard to the quality of their character and behaviour so they suffer the consequences of that attitude towards sport.
The fact isn't in doubt at the moment, it isn't even being questioned.
The SA police who have refuted the "mistaken intruder" rumour have not at all indicated Pistorius isn't the person who fired the gun that killed her. The press isn't even using "alleged" in their reporting of this at the moment and you would think by now if he was going to claim he wasn't responsible a lawyer would have been stating their client was innocent and hoping the murder is caught by now. The complete lack of denial indicates there is certainty he shot her unless some wildly contridictory evidence comes up.
Or he's exercising his right to remain silent at this time. If the shooter was somebody else, his lawyers will probably say that tomorrow in court. If an intruder shot my girlfriend or wife at my place and fled, and when police show up the first thing they do is arrest me, I'd keep my mouth shut until I talk to a lawyer.
The fact isn't in doubt at the moment, it isn't even being questioned.
The SA police who have refuted the "mistaken intruder" rumour have not at all indicated Pistorius isn't the person who fired the gun that killed her. The press isn't even using "alleged" in their reporting of this at the moment and you would think by now if he was going to claim he wasn't responsible a lawyer would have been stating their client was innocent and hoping the murder is caught by now. The complete lack of denial indicates there is certainty he shot her unless some wildly contridictory evidence comes up.
Or he's exercising his right to remain silent at this time. If the shooter was somebody else, his lawyers will probably say that tomorrow in court. If an intruder shot my girlfriend or wife at my place and fled, and when police show up the first thing they do is arrest me, I'd keep my mouth shut until I talk to a lawyer.
It is The Fugitive: 2 the guy with no legs chasing the guy with no arm who murdered his girl friend!
How many big name endorsers have gone down in flames lately? Armstrong, Pistorius, Paterno, various baseball players, Tiger Woods, etc
Woods, Armstrong and Pistorius? The loonies are going full board.... Woods had an affair. Who cares. Armstrong was taking EPO, another who cares in the world of cycling. And then we have a guy who murders someone and somehow they are all the same.....
How many big name endorsers have gone down in flames lately? Armstrong, Pistorius, Paterno, various baseball players, Tiger Woods, etc
Woods, Armstrong and Pistorius? The loonies are going full board.... Woods had an affair. Who cares. Armstrong was taking EPO, another who cares in the world of cycling. And then we have a guy who murders someone and somehow they are all the same.....
How many big name endorsers have gone down in flames lately? Armstrong, Pistorius, Paterno, various baseball players, Tiger Woods, etc
Woods, Armstrong and Pistorius? The loonies are going full board....
Woods had an affair. Who cares. Armstrong was taking EPO, another who cares in the world of cycling.
And then we have a guy who murders someone and somehow they are all the same.....
Nobody said they are all the same .Just they have all been presented as inspirational role models and turned out to be absolute failures.
Also the factural inaccuray, only the world of cycling cares for Armstrong? You really are detached from reality if you think only loonies who think any of those news cases are important.
How many big name endorsers have gone down in flames lately? Armstrong, Pistorius, Paterno, various baseball players, Tiger Woods, etc
Woods, Armstrong and Pistorius? The loonies are going full board....
Woods had an affair. Who cares. Armstrong was taking EPO, another who cares in the world of cycling.
And then we have a guy who murders someone and somehow they are all the same.....
Nobody said they are all the same .Just they have all been presented as inspirational role models and turned out to be absolute failures.
Also the factural inaccuray, only the world of cycling cares for Armstrong? You really are detached from reality if you think only loonies who think any of those news cases are important.
Woods is an absolute failure? The guy had a failed marriage. Something that happens to about half of marriages in this country. And she got about 100 million out of it. And she wasn't murdered.....
As for Armstrong, most of the vile comes from people who cared nothing about cycling until LA came along. LA took EPO in a sport where the number who weren't could be counted on one hand.
And then we have a fellow who shoots a woman a number of times. And somehow they are all connected.
But Okaaay.....I get the idea....hyperbole is big these days.
Woods is an absolute failure? The guy had a failed marriage. Something that happens to about half of marriages in this country. And she got about 100 million out of it. And she wasn't murdered.....
As for Armstrong, most of the vile comes from people who cared nothing about cycling until LA came along. LA took EPO in a sport where the number who weren't could be counted on one hand.
And then we have a fellow who shoots a woman a number of times. And somehow they are all connected.
But Okaaay.....I get the idea....hyperbole is big these days.
Ther only person doing hyperbole here is you as only you have assumed that athletes who have all had their public personas destroyed is the same as an athlete who might ahve murdered somebody.
On Tiger Woods. It's not the failure of his marriage that people criticise him for, it's the persistent cheating and determination to cheat is the issue. that isn't Tiger Woods being sadly havng an end to his marriage as the whole thing,or making a mistake and straying, he was a cheating and lying shame for years.
Lance Armstrong projected himself to be an inspiration. to millions. he wasn;t by any means and cheated people out of their careers and even purposely ended peoples careers because he is a nasty, nasty individual not an inspiration which is how he made his millions and cheated millions of people of their hard earned cash. It's morally fraud.
So yeah, You need to quit the hyperbole, all the examples mentioned are legit targets as they made millions on bulshit. That doesn't at all mena they are the same levels of nasty or tragic events as you indicate, nor are their lies and actions insignificant as you indicate.
"Nike pulled an ad featuring Pistorius from its website Thursday. The ad showed Pistorius taking off for a run, and contained the words 'I am the bullet in the chamber.'"
Basically, it is silly to look up to famed athletes as "role models" because we personally don't know them.
Tiger is good at hitting golf balls. Whether his marriage was a mess or he has manipulative character has nothing to do with that. We should enjoy watching him playing golf, and noting more. I do not go into the case of Lance, because his "offense" is related to his sport itself...
TN1965 wrote:Basically, it is silly to look up to famed athletes as "role models" because we personally don't know them.
Tiger is good at hitting golf balls. Whether his marriage was a mess or he has manipulative character has nothing to do with that. We should enjoy watching him playing golf, and noting more. I do not go into the case of Lance, because his "offense" is related to his sport itself...
It may be silly, but if athletes use their personality to sell products then they become resonsible when that character is revelaed to be b##ls##t. If an athlete doesnt sell themselves personally to earn money than fair enough. However every one of them does so it's fair game if they turn out to be not what they project to the public for money.
There is also the factor that roles models are signifcant and required in society and culture, especially for children who do copy role models in their lives. Regardless of your opinion if you create a public profile and make use of fame for money or attention then you take on responsibility for infulencing impressionable minds, regardless of if you want it or not.
Love to hear what the neigbours thought at the fights and rows, not to mention the police called up a number of times. Todays great hero in sport or other activity is so often a person with feet of clay; there seem to be plenty of people who knew OP coming forward to talk about his tendency to drink yoo much, his rudeness and abusiveness to others in social situations.
I went right off this guy after his petulant outburst at being beaten in one of the sprints in London last year.
eldanielfire wrote: It may be silly, but if athletes use their personality to sell products then they become resonsible when that character is revelaed to be b##ls##t. If an athlete doesnt sell themselves personally to earn money than fair enough. However every one of them does so it's fair game if they turn out to be not what they project to the public for money.
There is also the factor that roles models are signifcant and required in society and culture, especially for children who do copy role models in their lives. Regardless of your opinion if you create a public profile and make use of fame for money or attention then you take on responsibility for infulencing impressionable minds, regardless of if you want it or not.
Then it is the consumers' own fault that they are duped into a false image. If they ignore athletes product endorsement not related to their sports, then sponsors will stop paying them big money.
As for the need for role models, there are many adults that children personally know. Those people are far better as role models than those you have seen only on the TV screen.
I always been against Pistorius as a sportsman..mentioned also here a few times the last 4-5 years. Ridiculous it has been to see his fake blades. About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html This mornings event is a sad next step that prove he (and the fake blade running) should have been stopped years ago. He never was what he pretended to be and now it´s over. A young woman is dead and he can be just another simple weapon addict and a murderer.
Last edited by observer2 on Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
eldanielfire wrote: It may be silly, but if athletes use their personality to sell products then they become resonsible when that character is revelaed to be b##ls##t. If an athlete doesnt sell themselves personally to earn money than fair enough. However every one of them does so it's fair game if they turn out to be not what they project to the public for money.
There is also the factor that roles models are signifcant and required in society and culture, especially for children who do copy role models in their lives. Regardless of your opinion if you create a public profile and make use of fame for money or attention then you take on responsibility for infulencing impressionable minds, regardless of if you want it or not.
Then it is the consumers' own fault that they are duped into a false image. If they ignore athletes product endorsement not related to their sports, then sponsors will stop paying them big money.
As for the need for role models, there are many adults that children personally know. Those people are far better as role models than those you have seen only on the TV screen.
To children having rolemodels are not a matter of being in somebodies lives at home or on TV, it is a matter of their status, in the family or in society, it matters not a jot.
In an evolutionary sense we exist in tribes and are dependent upon us for survival and look to adults in the tribe tod evelope new learning. Children are not rational and capable decision makers so if somebody promotes themselves for attention or money they are making themselves a rolemodel in the childrens and young adults lives regadless of the other people in their lives and thus must accept the responsibilities for those actions.
observer2 wrote:I always been against Pistorius as a sportsman..mentioned also here a few times the last 4-5 years. Ridiculous it has been to see his fake blades. About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html This mornings event is a sad next step that prove he (and the fake blade running) should have been stopped years ago. He never was what he pretended to be and now it´s over. A young woman is dead and yet another simple weapon addict is a murderer.
Woah, while I agree the facts look thta wya at the moment, let's wait to see if all the facts are available now before we pass judgement.
observer2 wrote:I always been against Pistorius as a sportsman..mentioned also here a few times the last 4-5 years. Ridiculous it has been to see his fake blades. About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html This mornings event is a sad next step that prove he (and the fake blade running) should have been stopped years ago. He never was what he pretended to be and now it´s over. A young woman is dead and yet another simple weapon addict is a murderer.
Congrats on being jealous of (and presumably envious of?) a man born with no legs. Jeez.
As I have stated before, I do not understand how anyone is influenced to purchase a product because it is "endorsed" by a celebrity or athlete. (Admittedly, I will not purchase anything endorsed by some celebrities.) Apparently, the marketing people have a different opinion.
observer2 wrote:I always been against Pistorius as a sportsman..mentioned also here a few times the last 4-5 years. Ridiculous it has been to see his fake blades. About his "sportsmanship" and mentality this says a lot: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 96154.html This mornings event is a sad next step that prove he (and the fake blade running) should have been stopped years ago. He never was what he pretended to be and now it´s over. A young woman is dead and yet another simple weapon addict is a murderer.
Congrats on being jealous of (and presumably envious of?) a man born with no legs. Jeez.
Envious? I think you totally misunderstand the situation.
lonewolf wrote:As I have stated before, I do not understand how anyone is influenced to purchase a product because it is "endorsed" by a celebrity or athlete. (Admittedly, I will not purchase anything endorsed by some celebrities.) Apparently, the marketing people have a different opinion.
Well, if Meb endorses a pair of running shoes, that's worth something. (Not that I want to run with a pair of Skechers.) On the other hand, I have no interest in the razor Federer is using. (Tennis rackets, yes, if I were a tennis player.)
TN1965 wrote:Basically, it is silly to look up to famed athletes as "role models" because we personally don't know them.
Tiger is good at hitting golf balls. Whether his marriage was a mess or he has manipulative character has nothing to do with that. We should enjoy watching him playing golf, and noting more. I do not go into the case of Lance, because his "offense" is related to his sport itself...
I find it absolutely abhorent and dangerous to compare other cheaters such Tiger, Armstrong and innumberable other cheating athletes in T&FN/NFL/MBL/NBA etc with a man that murdered someone. To even discuss the various societal ills in sport in the same breath as murder is a horrible wrong in itself, does more damage to society than cheating in a bike race.
"Tom Hanks started bidding for the film rights to the story of the young South African with the J-shaped prosthetics. The plot was compelling: the first double-amputee to compete against able-bodied athletes in an Olympic Games, who was listed in 2012 by Time magazine among the world's 100 most-influential people."
user4 wrote:I find it absolutely abhorent and dangerous to compare other cheaters such Tiger, Armstrong and innumberable other cheating athletes in T&FN/NFL/MBL/NBA etc with a man that murdered someone. To even discuss the various societal ills in sport in the same breath as murder is a horrible wrong in itself, does more damage to society than cheating in a bike race.
user4 wrote:I find it absolutely abhorent and dangerous to compare other cheaters such Tiger, Armstrong and innumberable other cheating athletes in T&FN/NFL/MBL/NBA etc with a man that murdered someone. To even discuss the various societal ills in sport in the same breath as murder is a horrible wrong in itself, does more damage to society than cheating in a bike race.
As opposed to "applause" as someone else has done I would ask a question. Shouldn't we wait and find out the details before labeling someone a hardened criminal and murderer? No one on this board knows what happened at his home. His girlfriend was tweeting only yesterday about finding a nice surprise for Valentine's day. I am more apt to believe it was an unfortunate accident than a murder.
I have had yelling at my home once upon a time whether in a spout with a wife, or being angry at kids. I have heard some from other neighbhors. I can only imagine living in adjoining apartments. I think most of us have the good sense of at least waiting to find out accurate details before comparing Pistorius with anyone. What happened is a tragedy regardless of how it happened.
