Pistorius implicated in a murder


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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby iain » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:52 am

That'll be because you are (presumably) American; well know for your liberal attitude when it comes to death, guns etc. :roll:
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:27 am

Pretoria - SA police have denied leaking critical information about the Oscar Pistorius murder case which appeared in two Sunday newspapers.

"I don't know where people got these stories," lieutenant colonel Katlego Mogale told Sapa.

"Currently we haven't issued a statement or spoken to anyone."

On Sunday, the City Press reported that through "in-depth interviews" with sources "close" to the police investigation, it could reveal that a bloodied cricket bat found at Pistorius' home was going to be a key piece of evidence in court.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/ ... o-20130217
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Pego » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:57 am

iain wrote:That'll be because you are (presumably) American; well know for your liberal attitude when it comes to death, guns etc. :roll:


Careful with blanket generalizations. A suggestion that all Americans are the same is not only inaccurate, it is downright offensive.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby jeremyp » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:58 am

If the reports of a cricket bat and that her skull was crushed prove to be true then an act of passion become very dim indeed. I raise, again, the possibility of steroid rage.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby iain » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:06 am

Pego wrote:
iain wrote:That'll be because you are (presumably) American; well know for your liberal attitude when it comes to death, guns etc. :roll:


Careful with blanket generalizations. A suggestion that all Americans are the same is not only inaccurate, it is downright offensive.

I am not suggesting all Americans are the same, merely that this is how you are perceived, and in general it is probably true.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Pego » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:12 am

iain wrote:
Pego wrote:
iain wrote:That'll be because you are (presumably) American; well know for your liberal attitude when it comes to death, guns etc. :roll:


Careful with blanket generalizations. A suggestion that all Americans are the same is not only inaccurate, it is downright offensive.

I am not suggesting all Americans are the same, merely that this is how you are perceived, and in general it is probably true.


The hole you are digging for yourself is becoming deeper. Perceived by whom? You? It is true according to whom? You?
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Blues » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:15 am

iain wrote:
Pego wrote:
iain wrote:That'll be because you are (presumably) American; well know for your liberal attitude when it comes to death, guns etc. :roll:


Careful with blanket generalizations. A suggestion that all Americans are the same is not only inaccurate, it is downright offensive.

I am not suggesting all Americans are the same, merely that this is how you are perceived, and in general it is probably true.


Regardless of whether your comments are valid or not, it might be wise to tread carefully to avoid hijacking the thread and to avoid eventually getting it locked.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby iain » Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:53 am

Okay I will stop on this track, but in answer to your question: perceived by most of the (developed) world
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby user4 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:22 am

iain wrote:Okay I will stop on this track, but in answer to your question: perceived by most of the (developed) world


I still dont know or understand what iain is saying ... and I assume it was my observations or comments that set him off. To answer, yes I am an american that has lived in every corner of america and in more than a few other corners of other nations large and small.

One thing that may indeed differentiate us is that some of us take perceptions very seriously, far more seriously than actual material reality. The mere perception of being considered unhip or unfashionable or not in synch with acceptable sensibilities is considered the gravest of offenses while the actual frequency of crimes, robberies and murder, rape and assault is not really worth serious study.

Others of us take the material difference between serious crime and no crime worth understanding with an aim to helping those in the the next generation reduce actual crime. Crime destroys lives and devastates families. I have never met the children or brothers and sisters, husbands and wives of murder victims whose lives were not ruined. I would hope to be in this category, not really concerned about perceptions that can be shaped by who-knows-what or whom but focused on making the lives of my neighbors safe and secure and full of peace and productive experiences.

I think that we all, you and I both, want to greatly reduce that kind of senseless tragedy. Having such a great concern about perceptions is hard to understand for some of us when actual violent crime is taking the lives of innocent people, real people in the real world, not just perceptions and commentary.

High profile crimes like the pistorius residence murder are important in that they can lead a society to equal justice under the law, each citizen being held accountable for their actions regardless of their wealth or social standing. There may be life giving rain in that cloud with the sliver lining over SA.
Last edited by user4 on Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:27 am

iain wrote:
Pego wrote:
iain wrote:That'll be because you are (presumably) American; well know for your liberal attitude when it comes to death, guns etc. :roll:


Careful with blanket generalizations. A suggestion that all Americans are the same is not only inaccurate, it is downright offensive.

I am not suggesting all Americans are the same, merely that this is how you are perceived, and in general it is probably true.


Quite an ignorant comment besides being contradictory.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kevinsdad » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:35 am

18.99s wrote:
Pretoria - SA police have denied leaking critical information about the Oscar Pistorius murder case which appeared in two Sunday newspapers.

"I don't know where people got these stories," lieutenant colonel Katlego Mogale told Sapa.

"Currently we haven't issued a statement or spoken to anyone."

On Sunday, the City Press reported that through "in-depth interviews" with sources "close" to the police investigation, it could reveal that a bloodied cricket bat found at Pistorius' home was going to be a key piece of evidence in court.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/ ... o-20130217


Much as you may like to think otherwise, the article you link to actually indicates that the City Press story is accurate, and did, in fact, come from police sources. From the same article you quote:

The police's Mogale said she was "not at liberty" to say whether the leaked information was actually from the police docket.

"We can neither confirm nor deny [this]."

She said the leakage was "very serious" and an investigation would take place to discover who had been the sources giving information to the media."


I believe that falls into the category of a "non-denial denial."
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Marlow » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:04 pm

iain wrote:you cannot argue that it is much more 'civilised' not to have it.

Of course one can. The arc of history clearly shows a decrease in the types of crimes that result in capital punishment.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Pego » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:38 pm

iain wrote:Okay I will stop on this track, but in answer to your question: perceived by most of the (developed) world


Follow a few "controversial" topics just on this message board and you will find out how diversified, all over the spectrum the Americans are.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby bad hammy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:40 pm

iain clearly needs to meet a few more Americans. :lol:

Brian wrote:Between the sad goings-on with Pistorius and Favor-Hamilton, et al, the past few months, I find myself yearning for a near future when athletes are only making news on the track, not off it.

From this morning's news I was connecting Favor-Hamilton with Jesse Jackson Jr., both famous folks with mental issues who exhibited outrageous and reckless behavior.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kuha » Sun Feb 17, 2013 1:59 pm

bad hammy wrote:iain clearly needs to meet a few more Americans. :lol:

Brian wrote:Between the sad goings-on with Pistorius and Favor-Hamilton, et al, the past few months, I find myself yearning for a near future when athletes are only making news on the track, not off it.

From this morning's news I was connecting Favor-Hamilton with Jesse Jackson Jr., both famous folks with mental issues who exhibited outrageous and reckless behavior.


A good comparison. Neither of which deserves mention in the context of murder.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Flumpy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:07 pm

Deleted because I can't be bothered.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby bad hammy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:36 pm

kuha wrote:
bad hammy wrote:From this morning's news I was connecting Favor-Hamilton with Jesse Jackson Jr., both famous folks with mental issues who exhibited outrageous and reckless behavior.


A good comparison. Neither of which deserves mention in the context of murder.

Didn't mean to imply that they (Pistorius and SFH/JJjr) were on the same level, in fact did not mention OP in my comment. It was a tangential comment based on another post and current events. And it's not exactly as if our discussion here is going to solve the case and any tangents are just slowing us from finding the real killer!
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby polevaultpower » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:32 pm

As far as the leaks go, many South African police are easily bribed. I'm sure the press is having no problem getting details of the investigation. Of course they should not be taken as facts until they are presented in trial, but there's nothing to indicate that they are coming out of thin air either.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby kuha » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:58 pm

bad hammy wrote:
kuha wrote:
bad hammy wrote:From this morning's news I was connecting Favor-Hamilton with Jesse Jackson Jr., both famous folks with mental issues who exhibited outrageous and reckless behavior.


A good comparison. Neither of which deserves mention in the context of murder.

Didn't mean to imply that they (Pistorius and SFH/JJjr) were on the same level, in fact did not mention OP in my comment. It was a tangential comment based on another post and current events. And it's not exactly as if our discussion here is going to solve the case and any tangents are just slowing us from finding the real killer!


Yes--I was agreeing with your perspective. I didn't do a great job, apparently. Hopefully, all the brilliant comments here will solve this crime in short order.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby mump boy » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:07 pm

polevaultpower wrote:As far as the leaks go, many South African police are easily bribed. I'm sure the press is having no problem getting details of the investigation. Of course they should not be taken as facts until they are presented in trial, but there's nothing to indicate that they are coming out of thin air either.


because police across the rest of the world are whiter than white :roll:

you're obsessive need to try and make excuses is actually rather offensive
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby dec7000 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:08 am

Media are reporting steroids found in his house and suggesting "roid rage" may have a part to play, possibly following a text she received from a South African rugby player and former boyfriend.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby az2004 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:32 am

i've stayed away from this case because reliable info is hard to find

the stuff bout the criket bat, and crushed skull

from my view, just becaus rhe sa police can be bribed isn;t relevant in what happened

just ffeeds our frenzy
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Rog » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:42 am

Link to a newspaper article suggesting Police will be testing Pistorius for steroids, after they were found in his home: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -home.html
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:17 am

The story gets weirder everyday. If it was fiction no one would believe it...
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Daisy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:54 am

Is roid rage actually real? Could it possibly be a defense for what happened?
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:01 am

Conor Dary wrote:The story gets weirder everyday. If it was fiction no one would believe it...


Half of the information in the media about this probably is fiction.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:06 am

18.99s wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:The story gets weirder everyday. If it was fiction no one would believe it...


Half of the information in the media about this probably is fiction.


Yes, but which half?
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby 18.99s » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:08 am

Daisy wrote:Is roid rage actually real? Could it possibly be a defense for what happened?


If anything it could be an incriminating factor, especially if steroids are illegal in South Africa. When you harm somebody while under the influence of an illegal substance, or a substance that is illegal to consume under the circumstances (e.g. alcohol and driving), the penalties are increased. For example, if the car you're driving kills somebody and it's found that you were DUI, you're getting locked up for manslaughter, you're not just facing a lawsuit like what would happen with a sober driver.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:12 am

Daisy wrote:Is roid rage actually real? Could it possibly be a defense for what happened?


Perhaps Pego could enlighten us.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby jeremyp » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:27 am

Now perhaps an argument over "roid rage" which is amping up on other sites. Is it a genuine phenomenon? Do steroids merely accentuate already present behavioral problems? Enquiring minds....
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Blues » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:34 am

Conor Dary wrote:
Daisy wrote:Is roid rage actually real? Could it possibly be a defense for what happened?


Perhaps Pego could enlighten us.


Based on my own limited experiences, my opinion is that yes, roid rage is possible, and I've personally witnessed personality changes and possible "roid rage" symptoms in anabolic steroid users... I'll wait for Pego and other medical professionals to comment though.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Daisy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:34 am

Conor Dary wrote:
Daisy wrote:Is roid rage actually real? Could it possibly be a defense for what happened?


Perhaps Pego could enlighten us.

The reason for my question is that I'm reminded of the myths associated with 'supermales', those that have an extra Y chromosome (XYY); see below. Possibly roid rage is another example of confirmation bias?

XYY men in particular have been negatively stereotyped by society. When it was first discovered, popular science writers speculated that the extra Y would make males more aggressive – and more prone to criminality – than their XY peers. (This view persists: the film 'Aliens 3' was set in a penal colony for XYY prisoners.)

The myth was backed up by some rather misleading statistics. A paper published in the 'Lancet' in 1968 claimed that the prevalence of XYY men in prison was 25-60 times as high as the prevalence in the general population. This prompted some to suggest that screening for XYY would identify potentially violent and criminal males.

But the quality of this research was soon questioned (it was later pointed out that only two XYY male prisoners were identified in the study) and the consensus today is there is no strong link between XYY and criminality. XYY men may tend to share certain features, but these are well within the 'normal' range of human variation.

http://www.wellcome.ac.uk/Education-res ... 028518.htm
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Pego » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:54 am

I have no personal experience with "roid rage," all I know is what I read in literature which also seems to be more anecdotal than a comprehensive assesment. Of what I know, some cases of manic behaviour in long-term anabolic steroid users has been described, usually in those that had manic tendencies in their premorbid personalities. Be it as it may, there does not appear to be tendency of disconect with reality. In other words, use of roids may be an excuse for breaking a few dishes, not for murder.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby Conor Dary » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:00 am

Pego wrote:I have no personal experience with "roid rage," all I know is what I read in literature which also seems to be more anecdotal than a comprehensive assesment. Of what I know, some cases of manic behaviour in long-term anabolic steroid users has been described, usually in those that had manic tendencies in their premorbid personalities. Be it as it may, there does not appear to be tendency of disconect with reality. In other words, use of roids may be an excuse for breaking a few dishes, not for murder.


Oh, dear, that doesn't sound helpful for BM.....What next????
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby jamboy » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:43 am

Banned steriods found at Pistorius home.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... nkamp.html

BANNED steroid drugs were found in Oscar Pistorius’s house after he shot dead lover Reeva Steenkamp.
Police also discovered a blood-stained cricket bat in the Blade Runner’s mansion in Pretoria, South Africa — and evidence of heavy drinking before the 3am shooting. Cops are now probing a theory that Pistorius may have blasted Reeva in an explosion of fury caused by the performance-boosting steroids.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby JumboElliott » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:53 am

Ugh. There is little science behind so-called "roid rage"
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby user4 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:15 am

jeremyp wrote:Now perhaps an argument over "roid rage" which is amping up on other sites. Is it a genuine phenomenon? Do steroids merely accentuate already present behavioral problems? Enquiring minds....



Pretty sure that they just accentuate already present problems. For instance, any guy (with average metabolic function) having to endure a stunningly beautiful super model at his residence over night on valentines day would be absolutely outraged and beside himself with bitter deep seated resentment and anger. But while the average guy would have simply beat her senseless, toss some steroids into his cocktail and that all american boy will immediately grab for the glock pistol to shoot her to death. Makes perfect sense.

Next out, a special report on whether emotionally handicapped people that are exalted as saints and treated like rock stars and demi-gods by multi-billion dollar corporate media machines are prone to narcissistic fits of homicidal rage.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby gh » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:46 am

After decades of observation of the subject and talking to many users/friends of users, my take is that roid rage exists, but not in the sense that it takes ordinary people and Jekyll & Hydes them. It merely amplifies existing personality traits. So if somebody is generally meek and mild-mannered, they stay that way. Somebody with a temper, on the other hand, MAY end up with that being amped-up a little.

My guess is that most roid-rage incidents through the years have actually been amphetamine fueled, since there's definitely a linkage of doing the two in concert.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby jeremyp » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:17 pm

gh wrote:After decades of observation of the subject and talking to many users/friends of users, my take is that roid rage exists, but not in the sense that it takes ordinary people and Jekyll & Hydes them. It merely amplifies existing personality traits. So if somebody is generally meek and mild-mannered, they stay that way. Somebody with a temper, on the other hand, MAY end up with that being amped-up a little.

My guess is that most roid-rage incidents through the years have actually been amphetamine fueled, since there's definitely a linkage of doing the two in concert.

Add to that a super competitive personality and alcohol...... My career in mental health tells me Pistorius had personality issues already in place that steroids and alcohol (?) accentuated. These will probably come out in the media as more people tell stories.
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Re: Pistorius implicated in a murder

Postby JumboElliott » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:27 pm

I just hope that the steroids crap doesn't take away the fact that there's no excuse for killing someone in malice.
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