US sprinter Carlin Isles shows why USA can win Rio rugby


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Re: US sprinter Carlin Isles shows why USA can win Rio rugby

Postby preston » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:45 am

mal wrote:Preston, I would add, that you have little idea how hard real rugby is, as in the US its full of exactly the same people you identify. Frat boys full of testosterone and little talent.

There is more than enough physical ability in this country. Some of it is even talent. But I would argue that even in American football there is a dearth of the sort of commitment on the highest stage.

If it came down to talent and physical ability, the NZ All Blacks, coming from the smallest pool, would not be the best team in the world.

"Real" Rugby? And, here I was believing that we were addressing the advantages of speed in 7's as opposed to 15's and WHY it is possible for an AMERICAN like Isles - with very little experience playing the game - to become an internet sensation ... among RUGBY ENTHUSIASTS!! Here I was answering your question based upon exactly what you said and now it's about me not seeing Rugby as hard? :?

You're attributing assumptions to me that I've never made. I never said Rugby was easy or implied that it was anything other than the skill that it is. I gave you a characterization of the type of athlete that moves towards Rugby in the UNITED STATES, not in the rest of the world and certainly not in Australia or New Zealand or South Africa where it's something of the national sport - if NOT the actual national sport. Rugby in the US may as well be team handball or even curling (maybe less); it's a specialty, micro-niche sport at best AND IT DOES NOT ATTRACT THE COUNTRIES BEST (though from time to time it actually finds athletes with "talent"). Again, it's a frat boy/prep school diversion pushing for inclusion in the conversation of real sports in America because of the it's demographic make-up. The best American athletes are gravitating to the pro sports of Hockey, Football, Baseball and Basketball; totally different than the BEST athletes in New Zealand who have an intimate familiarity with Rugby and that's just NOT the case in the US. New Zealand's national identity is tied up in Rugby and the All Blacks, but in the US, to be frank: no one gives a flying fuck about Rugby.

In a nutshell: there are 100's of Isles' in the US - HUNDREDS! But apparently there are very few in Rugby otherwise he would NEVER get this much attention.
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Re: US sprinter Carlin Isles shows why USA can win Rio rugby

Postby mal » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:07 pm

I get it Preston, you're good with your assumptions. Less so with others. :lol:

And really, athletic talent is a lot more common than you may believe. Its the ability to do someting with it that's rare.

So NZ 's national identity is tied up in Rugby, and no-one gives a flying fuck?

So what is your Nation's identity?
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Re: US sprinter Carlin Isles shows why USA can win Rio rugby

Postby preston » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:18 pm

mal wrote:I get it Preston, you're good with your assumptions. Less so with others. :lol:

And really, athletic talent is a lot more common than you may believe. Its the ability to do someting with it that's rare.

So NZ 's national identity is tied up in Rugby, and no-one gives a flying fuck?

So what is your Nation's identity?

Why you keep attacking me I don't understand, but it's really sad: instead of giving an apology you turned into Marlow. And to reiterate (I have to quote myself because you are being dishonest with what I said):
preston wrote:...New Zealand's national identity is tied up in Rugby and the All Blacks, but in the US, to be frank: no one gives a flying fuck about Rugby.

In a nutshell: there are 100's of Isles' in the US - HUNDREDS! But apparently there are very few in Rugby otherwise he would NEVER get this much attention.

So how does speed, the wow factor that's getting Isles so much visibility and the reason this thread was started, compare in New Zealand? Well, Tuariki said it best:
Tuariki wrote:...How unreal that a little country of 2.7 million people can have 53 sprinters currently under 10.3.

I don't think we have a single active sprinter in New Zealand running that fast.


As for my "nation's identity"? I put it in the box with the names of your more achieving training partners (who had the talent ... and the ability to do something with it) and your 100m PB. :wink:
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Re: US sprinter Carlin Isles shows why USA can win Rio rugby

Postby Tuariki » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:07 pm

To Mal
While Preston, as he (or she??) is wont to do, he gives his opinion in extremely descriptive language. And while extremely descriptive he is also extremely correct.

The only reason Carlin Isles could come out of nowhere and become (at least or diehard Rugby nuts) an internet sensation was his blinding speed. None of the major sevens nations has anyone capable of catching him if he gets a half yard start on them.

And as Preston says the USA has "shitloads" of Carlin Isles'.

The most important attributes for a sevens player IMO opinion are:

Speed
then speed
then speed
and then the ability to dance with rugby ball in hand

Tackling is a useful skill but in terms of importance it is way, way behind speed. Defense becomes somewhat irrelevant in sevens if you can score with every possession.

The only reason that the best US athletes don;t play 15s rugby is money. The NFL bench warmers make a lot more money than rugby's stars.
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Re: US sprinter Carlin Isles shows why USA can win Rio rugby

Postby mal » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:46 pm

Tuariki. Facts don't concern me greatly. Its sometimes fun watching people lose their shit over minor things. And I do know enough about rugby to get it. Though with skilled oposition he will get hammered at some stage.

And Preston. Grasshopper, if you think you are attacked, you need to come out of the basement more often. You argue aggressively, which doesn't concern me in the slightest. I can be attacked all day by people on a keyboard. Never even leaves a bruise.

As for athletics. I had fun in my career. Learned a lot. Battled through injury and picked up a minor medal in an individual event at the Olympic trials. And I ran qualifying in the 100m and the 400m. I was a qualifying athlete who was left on the cutting room floor almost 40 years ago due to funding or lack of. Today I'd be in the team, as this year, others ran the same time and went to London.

Sport is not that important in the scheme of things. Except for what you overcome, or don't, and what you learn from it. I hope you had an even better career than I did. You certainly missed the subtleties of a conversation. :lol:
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Re: US sprinter Carlin Isles shows why USA can win Rio rugby

Postby Tuariki » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 am

NZ government's high performance sports body has announced they will provide US$4 million in funding over next 4 years on sevens to make sure we maximise our chances (some Kiwis believe that should be rights) to the the Rio gold.

Wow. Now we can afford a 3rd string NFL player.
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Re: US sprinter Carlin Isles shows why USA can win Rio rugby

Postby Daisy » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:02 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/08/sport ... twrhp&_r=0

While sheer speed will get you so far in sevens, a player still needs to be able to catch and pass the ball, take a tackle and compete at the breakdown.

Isles is still learning the ropes, and while he made his mark in the first three rounds of the world series — he scored his first try 46 seconds into his debut on Australia’s Gold Coast — he had a quiet tournament in Wellington, where he had limited game time and saw very little of the ball when he was on the field.
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