A Very Bad Morning For Lance


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:58 am

DrJay wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Now the Boston and New York Marathons are jumping in on the fun.
Lance Armstrong’s name is likely to be expunged from the results of the New York City and Boston marathons, in addition to the Tour de France.
/


Now that's getting a little absurd. Maybe next they'll expunge his name from all print and digital media for the last 20 years, like in Orwell's 1984.


All the boobs in authority trying to prove who is the most righteous. Puritans Unite!
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:47 am

Eddie Merckx weighs in.
Commenting after the UCI's release earlier in the week, Merckx said: "I'm sick, only for my sport. I met Lance many times, he never told me about doping, physicians or other things. He did not need to report to me, it was his problem but I fell into the trap. I am amazed at him, especially after what he went through." he told Le Soir.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx- ... -armstrong

Is he for real or is he doing his best Inspector Renault impression?
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10858
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:57 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Eddie Merckx weighs in.
Commenting after the UCI's release earlier in the week, Merckx said: "I'm sick, only for my sport. I met Lance many times, he never told me about doping, physicians or other things. He did not need to report to me, it was his problem but I fell into the trap. I am amazed at him, especially after what he went through." he told Le Soir.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx- ... -armstrong

Is he for real or is he doing his best Inspector Renault impression?


Shocked, shocked!! Yea, pretty moronic. All Armstrong's fault. The Tour is now the equivalent of a Child's Birthday Party only dirtied by LA.

    General Ripper: Do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream? Ice cream, Mandrake? Children's ice cream!...You know when fluoridation began?...1946. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works. I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women...women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby DrJay » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:29 pm

P O E
DrJay
 
Posts: 5483
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Woodland Park, CO

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:24 pm

Betsy Andreu on NBC's Rock Center tonight.

http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/201 ... drugs?lite
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:49 pm

DrJay wrote:P O E

:? :?:
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10858
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby DrJay » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:06 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
DrJay wrote:P O E

:? :?:


Anybody? :-)
DrJay
 
Posts: 5483
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Woodland Park, CO

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby bambam » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:46 pm

DrJay wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
DrJay wrote:P O E

:? :?:


Anybody? :-)


POE = EPO, the nickname the cyclists used for it, or Edgar
bambam
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby bambam » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:47 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Eddie Merckx weighs in.
Commenting after the UCI's release earlier in the week, Merckx said: "I'm sick, only for my sport. I met Lance many times, he never told me about doping, physicians or other things. He did not need to report to me, it was his problem but I fell into the trap. I am amazed at him, especially after what he went through." he told Le Soir.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/merckx- ... -armstrong

Is he for real or is he doing his best Inspector Renault impression?


Although Merckx is undeniably the greatest cyclist ever, he did get popped for doping 2-3 times during his career, even in the era in which there was very little testing.
bambam
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Durham, NC

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:08 pm

Terrific stuff on Rock Center tonight. Emma O'Reilly was particularly compelling.

It was also interesting to watch Andreu call interviewer Harry Smith onto the carpet as one of Armstrong's media sycophants.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500461_162- ... ColumnArea


Credit to Smith and NBC for not cutting those comments from the piece.
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby DrJay » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:14 pm

bambam wrote:
DrJay wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
DrJay wrote:P O E

:? :?:


Anybody?


POE = EPO, the nickname the cyclists used for it, or Edgar


Wrong answer, Dookie! :) But a good try. Conor posted a quote (rant) from Gen. Jack Ripper from Dr. Strangelove. Minutes later, after the crazed General offs himself, Mandrake is puzzling over a piece of paper with various permutations of P O E on it (P O E , O P E, Peace On Earth, On Earth Peace, etc) figuring the recall code must be some variation of those three letters.
DrJay
 
Posts: 5483
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Woodland Park, CO

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby dukehjsteve » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:33 am

Perhaps my all-time favorite movie. So many great lines, too many to repeat here !
dukehjsteve
 
Posts: 6056
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Fishers, IN

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:54 am

Thanks to Dr. Jay for pointing out the obvious and the Purity Of Essence of it all. :D

And I agree with the dukester, it is a great movie.
Conor Dary
 
Posts: 6297
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: कनोर दारी in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby KDFINE » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:13 am

POE = Purity Of Essence.
KDFINE
 
Posts: 974
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby j-a-m » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:45 am

Just stumbled upon the use of "to Live Strong" as a synonym for "to use PEDs"; interesting to see if that's gonna catch on ...
j-a-m
 
Posts: 2449
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby tandfman » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:07 pm

tandfman wrote:
bambam wrote:Everyone will be asking for their money back, and to keep it he will end up having to fork it over to the lawyers instead. Why I think he will be headed for a new Chapter in his life, so to speak.

I assume you mean Chapter 7.

That wouldn't surprise me at all.

It turns out that Mr. Armstrong has salted away a good amount of money and may be able to fend off bankruptcy in spite of these actual and potential claims against him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/27/your- ... arges.html
tandfman
 
Posts: 15041
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby odelltrclan » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:30 pm

tandfman wrote:
tandfman wrote:
bambam wrote:Everyone will be asking for their money back, and to keep it he will end up having to fork it over to the lawyers instead. Why I think he will be headed for a new Chapter in his life, so to speak.

I assume you mean Chapter 7.

That wouldn't surprise me at all.

It turns out that Mr. Armstrong has salted away a good amount of money and may be able to fend off bankruptcy in spite of these actual and potential claims against him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/27/your- ... arges.html


I have read other reports that put his net worth at about $25,000,000 or so. Who knows how accurate this information is. He probably will remain rich. But, I think he is still open to lawsuits from the likes of Emma O'Reilly, Betsy Andreu, and Greg Lemond (should they think about going that route) and others he has bullied and vilified in press, for defamation of character, etc. He also may be subject to punitive damages as well from some of these lawsuits, and who knows how much (if they happen) they might be.
odelltrclan
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby guru » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:02 pm

Ok, NOW it's time to start worrying about the Apocalypse being upon us...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/05/sport ... ml?hp&_r=0


Would have loved to be a fly on the wall at that Tygart/Armstrong sit-down
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby tandfman » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:41 am

The Onion ran this story more than 2 years ago:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/lance- ... but,17973/

Of course, it was a spoof at the time.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15041
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby gh » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:05 am

from his column this morning, Scott Ostler's "Knucklehead Of The Week"

<<Knucklehead of the week: Lance Armstrong
Reportedly, Armstrong is considering a confession of his doping sins.
What, he's weary of the deception? He's guilt-stricken for all that cheating? He wants to be a role model for contrition and redemption?
Nah. Lance wants to get cleared so he can return to competitive sports. He wants to wipe away years of selfish cheating with a self-serving apology.
It will have to be a hell of an apology to make folks forget the self-righteous pit bull, denouncing and threatening doubters and accusers.
Proposed: a televised debate between Juicer Pit Bull Lance and Seen-the-Light Lance.>>


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/sports/ostler/art ... z2HDgoy700
gh
 
Posts: 46314
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby Marlow » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:22 am

gh wrote:from his column this morning, Scott Ostler's "Knucklehead Of The Week"

<<Knucklehead of the week: Lance Armstrong
Lance wants to get cleared so he can return to competitive sports.

This must be a stupid question, but . . . why would they let him compete again?!
Isn't a life-time ban the suitable punishment for all the cheating and lying?

Would not triathlon (presumably his next option) make him unwelcome also?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21079
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby guru » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:46 pm

USADA head Travis Tygart on Showtime's 60 Minutes Sports tomorrow night, talking about Armstrong and his intimidation tactics - including death threats

Preview - http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-5 ... ong-probe/
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby slowjo » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:12 pm

LA will do a 1.5 hour interview with Oprah on the 17th. 9-10:30 PM on the OWN Network.

Is this confession time or more lies a la Marion Jones?
slowjo
 
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:20 pm
Location: living in the shadow of mojo

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby tandfman » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:10 am

slowjo wrote:LA will do a 1.5 hour interview with Oprah on the 17th. 9-10:30 PM on the OWN Network.

Is this confession time or more lies a la Marion Jones?

The British bookies are already taking bets on what he's going to say. This is from a Tweet I just saw:

Ladbrokes odds on Lance invue w/ Oprah: 1-4 he says `sorry' ; evens he confesses; evens he says he's innocent; 1-2 he cites `conspiracy.'
tandfman
 
Posts: 15041
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby tandfman » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:18 am

Another Twitter contributor speculates on the Oprah/Lance intervew:

OPRAH: Did you cheat in the Tour de France? LANCE: No. I've never even been to France."”

:lol:
tandfman
 
Posts: 15041
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby tandfman » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:02 am

Webcast with British journalist who crusaded against Armstrong now on live.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/pub ... 192199.ece
tandfman
 
Posts: 15041
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby gh » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:08 am

My guess is that he plays (and wins with) the full-on sympathy card.

Oprah: "Whatever motivated you to take these drugs?"

Lance: "You've got to remember, I was coming off a scary case of cancer. At one point I didn't even know if I was going to live, let alone ever ride again. After all that agonizing chemo and radiation, there were times when I felt like I wanted to die. When my health started to return, I was willing to do everything and anything to feel like a normal human-being again. And then I realized that not only could I be normal, I could be super -normal. And I didn't have to do anything that all my peers weren't doing anyway, so at the time it didn't seem like such a bad thing to do. I now realize what a terrible decision that was."

And he doesn't have to say another word: that wins him the public's heart back, just like that.


(and it's possible—maybe even probable?—that all that made-up speech is true, save for the final sentence of course)
gh
 
Posts: 46314
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby kuha » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:37 am

gh wrote:that wins him the public's heart back, just like that.


We'll see, I guess. While the cancer ploy has some weight, I can't believe it will be that easy to "win the public's heart back," if it is possible at all. The cycling world wrote him off quite some time ago--in part for his bullying and ultra-aggressive personality (which will not be changed). The general public doesn't care hugely about the technical details of any of this, but I would presume that his coming-to-Jesus will be too little and too late.
kuha
 
Posts: 9015
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:49 am

gh wrote:(and it's possible—maybe even probable?—that all that made-up speech is true, save for the final sentence of course)

But that confession would seem to imply that he wasn't doing drugs before he got cancer which is not true. About the only questions I can think of that I'd like to have answered is who first introduced him to drugs, when did he first start doping.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10858
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby guru » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:10 pm

As kuha alluded to, the sympathy card is going to be hard to play considering Armstrong's bullying tactics and incessant threats. The hard questions will be related to those issues. Let's see if Winfrey asks them - and if so what he has to say for himself.
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby Brian » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:22 pm

gh wrote:My guess is that he plays (and wins with) the full-on sympathy card.

Oprah: "Whatever motivated you to take these drugs?"

Lance: "You've got to remember, I was coming off a scary case of cancer. At one point I didn't even know if I was going to live, let alone ever ride again. After all that agonizing chemo and radiation, there were times when I felt like I wanted to die. When my health started to return, I was willing to do everything and anything to feel like a normal human-being again. And then I realized that not only could I be normal, I could be super -normal. And I didn't have to do anything that all my peers weren't doing anyway, so at the time it didn't seem like such a bad thing to do. I now realize what a terrible decision that was."

And he doesn't have to say another word: that wins him the public's heart back, just like that.


(and it's possible—maybe even probable?—that all that made-up speech is true, save for the final sentence of course)


Don't forget:

Q. So why all the vehement denials? Why not just come clean right away?

A. Because I was afraid doing so would damage the credibility and effectiveness of my [cancer] foundation. Some people--and companies understandably worried about their image--would unfairly tie the organization to their personal feelings about me and withold their [financial] backing in the future. Now it doesn't matter; people have already made up their minds.

[Again, as gh said, who's to say this isn't really the truth of it? If two of us--both with media ties, btw--thought this way, perhaps it is indeed accurate.]
.
Brian
 
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby GMH454 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:50 pm

Just hope his delivery is better than Wood's .. wonder why he never did an "Oprah" ... could even she have things she would not touch ... or was he scared of her white hot grilling ...

like being beaten up with a orchard ...
GMH454
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:37 pm

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby kuha » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:12 pm

GMH454 wrote:Just hope his delivery is better than Wood's .. wonder why he never did an "Oprah" ... could even she have things she would not touch ... or was he scared of her white hot grilling ...

like being beaten up with a orchard ...


Or a hammer painted a very lovely shade of pink.
kuha
 
Posts: 9015
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:49 pm

guru wrote:As kuha alluded to, the sympathy card is going to be hard to play considering Armstrong's bullying tactics and incessant threats. The hard questions will be related to those issues. Let's see if Winfrey asks them - and if so what he has to say for himself.

He might just write that off on the omertà that existed in the peleton long before he became a pro cyclist.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10858
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby guru » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:53 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:As kuha alluded to, the sympathy card is going to be hard to play considering Armstrong's bullying tactics and incessant threats. The hard questions will be related to those issues. Let's see if Winfrey asks them - and if so what he has to say for himself.

He might just write that off on the omertà that existed in the peleton long before he became a pro cyclist.



Not so eaily "written off" - his lawsuits, or mudslinging at Travis Tygart and USADA
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby kuha » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:42 pm

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:As kuha alluded to, the sympathy card is going to be hard to play considering Armstrong's bullying tactics and incessant threats. The hard questions will be related to those issues. Let's see if Winfrey asks them - and if so what he has to say for himself.

He might just write that off on the omertà that existed in the peleton long before he became a pro cyclist.



Not so eaily "written off" - his lawsuits, or mudslinging at Travis Tygart and USADA


Exactly. I presume that he's going to be sued by that Brit newspaper that he FALSELY sued in order to shut up several years back. He's cost lots of people time, trouble, and money. There's no reason any of that SHOULD be forgiven, and that dynamic will play out in the media for years, I presume.
kuha
 
Posts: 9015
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: 3rd row, on the finish line

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby odelltrclan » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:45 pm

What will be shocking is if anyone actually believes much of anything that comes out of this guy's mouth. This is damage control and a salvage mission and nothing more. He has a calculayef agenda just as he had with everything else he has done. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
odelltrclan
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby eldanielfire » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:27 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
gh wrote:(and it's possible—maybe even probable?—that all that made-up speech is true, save for the final sentence of course)

But that confession would seem to imply that he wasn't doing drugs before he got cancer which is not true. About the only questions I can think of that I'd like to have answered is who first introduced him to drugs, when did he first start doping.


Did you not see the Marion Jones Oprah interview?

She spouted all kinds of lies and insisted that she never knew she was taken performance enhancers all that time, despite multiple partners who where heavily involved in drugs, Balco timetables, several witnesses who saw her take various kinds and spoke to her about the effects and her concerns and the fact she even hired Ben Johnson's old coach later on in her career. Marion Jones version of events cntridicted virtually everybody else's version of events. It was ridiculous to anybody body who even vaguely followed the story.

But then Oprah isn't about getting to the truth, it's about rich and famous people painting an image and ensuring you have a career after a scandal.
eldanielfire
 
Posts: 1318
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:07 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:28 pm

eldanielfire wrote:Did you not see the Marion Jones Oprah interview?

She spouted all kinds of lies and insisted that she never knew she was taken performance enhancers all that time, despite multiple partners who where heavily involved in drugs, Balco timetables, several witnesses who saw her take various kinds and spoke to her about the effects and her concerns and the fact she even hired Ben Johnson's old coach later on in her career. Marion Jones version of events cntridicted virtually everybody else's version of events. It was ridiculous to anybody body who even vaguely followed the story.

Yes, I saw that interview. Here are the relevant parts of it IMO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ewja4q0z7s

I doubt very seriously that Lance is going to pull a Marion and pretend he didn't know what he was taking. Hopefully Lance will surprise us and speak with the same candor that Kelli White did when Bryant Gumbel interviewed her for HBO's Real Sports.

eldanielfire wrote:But then Oprah isn't about getting to the truth, it's about rich and famous people painting an image and ensuring you have a career after a scandal.

I completely disagree with you on this. I thought Oprah did a good job and it was pretty obvious that she didn't believe her. What else did you expect her to do, waterboard Marion?
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10858
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: A Very Bad Morning For Lance

Postby guru » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:05 pm

Insight into Armstrong's motivations - and goals - for the interview

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cy ... g/1831545/
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dixon and 7 guests