Fountain To Try Bobsled


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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:17 pm

guru wrote:


You're saying Fountain sucked and deserved to passed over for Jones. Fair enough.


Are you a child? Fountain was terrific as well. Just not quite as good as Lolo.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:23 pm

decafan wrote:
guru wrote:


You're saying Fountain sucked and deserved to passed over for Jones. Fair enough.


Are you a child? Fountain was terrific as well. Just not quite as good as Lolo.



Well I'll tell you what. You don't infer intent in my comments here, and I won't do it to yours. How's that sound?

And for the record - I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot(though Fountain has every reason to feel slighted).
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:45 pm

guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
guru wrote:


You're saying Fountain sucked and deserved to passed over for Jones. Fair enough.


Are you a child? Fountain was terrific as well. Just not quite as good as Lolo.



Well I'll tell you what. You don't infer intent in my comments here, and I won't do it to yours. How's that sound?

And for the record - I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot(though Fountain has every reason to feel slighted).


That sounds good. Just so I am clear: You are NOT a Lolo hater. You are pro-Lolo. You agree that you can't legislate media interest no matter how badly you wish you could. You agree that Lolo deserved to be named to the national team. If you were Ms. Fountain you would feel slighted (even though nobody involved in the process- including the athletes, were surprised by this decision). Got it.

I appreciate you clearing that up and I apologize for inferring you hate Lolo just because the media- which she has no control over, seems to like writing about her.

Friends???
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:31 am

Make no mistake about it - the only track athlete who's going to wind up in a sled at a major championship is Evans, at least from this group. But if Jones brings more publicity to the sport(what is it Oscar Wilde said?), then she's fulfilled her role.

But it sure would be nice if the media(Bonnie Ford I'm looking at you) could at least mention the name of the woman who absolutely destroyed the field, and the track record.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby Pego » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:41 am

guru wrote:I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot


Why? Just wondering.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:34 pm

Pego wrote:
guru wrote:I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot


Why? Just wondering.



Strictly by the numbers, of course she didn't deserve it. But when I made the comment my feeling was USA Bobsled must have seen something in her performance that caused them to take Jones over Fountain for that last brakeman slot.

The cynic in me would say it was because Jones brings more pub than Fountain, but surely that had nothing to do with it...
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:37 pm

guru wrote:
Pego wrote:
guru wrote:I said on this very forum at 7:43 PM I thought Jones probably deserved the spot


Why? Just wondering.



Strictly by the numbers, of course she didn't deserve it. But when I made the comment my feeling was USA Bobsled must have seen something in her performance that caused them to take Jones over Fountain for that last brakeman slot.

The cynic in me would say it was because Jones brings more pub than Fountain, but surely that had nothing to do with it...

It's my understanding that only three of the six pushers will get to compete in the Olympics. If that's the case, perhaps they wanted to bring publicity to the sport. The NFAA was ecstatic when Geena Davis made it to the semifinals of the Olympic Archery Trials for just this reason, and there no doubt that NBC would have made her one of the faces of the Olympics if she had somehow made the team.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympi ... rchery_ap/
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby James Fields » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:41 pm

Update: Headline now says Lolo on USA Olympic Bobsled Team:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1384355-lolo-jones-picked-for-us-olympic-bobsled-team
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:32 pm

James Fields wrote:Update: Headline now says Lolo on USA Olympic Bobsled Team



No, she's not on the Olympic team. She's on the US Bobsled roster, with an opportunity to try to make the 2014 team. But as we have discussed here since the announcement was made a few days ago, she's not very likely to make the final two or three brakemen who actually go to Sochi.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:38 pm

James Fields wrote:Update: Headline now says Lolo on USA Olympic Bobsled Team:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1384355-lolo-jones-picked-for-us-olympic-bobsled-team


I have seen the same thing in a few publications. Totally incorrect. The 2014 Sochi Winter Olympic Bobsled Team will most likely be named in January of 2014. Possibly December of 2013.

Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:59 pm

decafan wrote:
Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.



Vets Azevedo and Eberling are almost guaranteed slots for 2014, which leaves one seat open(assuming the US qualifies three sleds).


BTW, Good to see at least one journalist is writing about Evans -

http://tinyurl.com/9ydgtkl
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:46 pm

guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.



Vets Azevedo and Eberling are almost guaranteed slots for 2014, which leaves one seat open(assuming the US qualifies three sleds).


BTW, Good to see at least one journalist is writing about Evans -

http://tinyurl.com/9ydgtkl


You are half right. One vet is a lock for a slot, one is definitely not. Two seats are up for grabs. If Hyleas sticks around and improves, there will be a dog fight for those two seats between her, Lolo and Tianna.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:24 pm

decafan wrote:
guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.



Vets Azevedo and Eberling are almost guaranteed slots for 2014, which leaves one seat open(assuming the US qualifies three sleds).


BTW, Good to see at least one journalist is writing about Evans -

http://tinyurl.com/9ydgtkl


You are half right. One vet is a lock for a slot, one is definitely not. Two seats are up for grabs. If Hyleas sticks around and improves, there will be a dog fight for those two seats between her, Lolo and Tianna.



Check your math. Even going by your statement only one of Azevedo/Eberling is a lock, that only leaves one seat, because Evans is definitely taking one. And I'm not sure how you have Fountain is in the the mix, because she's not on the roster and not in the world cup rotation.

When it all shakes out in 2014, the three brakemen will be Evans, Eberling, and Azevedo, with Garrett the wildcard. It's just a matter of who's in what sled.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:00 am

guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
guru wrote:
decafan wrote:
Guru is full of it. She has a real chance to make that team. As does Tianna. Aja is a lock unless she bails out or gets hurt. Three sleds, three drivers, three breakmen.



Vets Azevedo and Eberling are almost guaranteed slots for 2014, which leaves one seat open(assuming the US qualifies three sleds).


BTW, Good to see at least one journalist is writing about Evans -

http://tinyurl.com/9ydgtkl


You are half right. One vet is a lock for a slot, one is definitely not. Two seats are up for grabs. If Hyleas sticks around and improves, there will be a dog fight for those two seats between her, Lolo and Tianna.



Check your math. Even going by your statement only one of Azevedo/Eberling is a lock, that only leaves one seat, because Evans is definitely taking one. And I'm not sure how you have Fountain is in the the mix, because she's not on the roster and not in the world cup rotation.

When it all shakes out in 2014, the three brakemen will be Evans, Eberling, and Azevedo, with Garrett the wildcard. It's just a matter of who's in what sled.


Yes, my math was wrong. Good catch. Aja is a lock and one vet. Third spot is up for grabs. Fountain is still in the mix if she decides to stick around and train. Her athleticism is not in question, so she still has a lot of potential if she commits to making the 2014 team- which won't be selected until either December of '13 or Jan of '14. She still has time, even though she didn't get selected to the '12-'13 World Cup team. Every Olympic year there is a shuffling of the deck. Watch and learn, Grasshopper.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:16 am

decafan wrote: (Fountain) still has time, even though she didn't get selected to the '12-'13 World Cup team. Every Olympic year there is a shuffling of the deck.


Well considering Fountain won't be getting any competition time even if she does continue training(and why would she, considering she was just snubbed), it's pretty hard to see her beating out any of the athletes that are ALREADY ahead of her, much less after they have a full season of world class racing.


Watch and learn, Grasshopper


Hmm, we'll see. I feel pretty good about my picks(barring injury)
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:54 am

guru wrote:
decafan wrote: (Fountain) still has time, even though she didn't get selected to the '12-'13 World Cup team. Every Olympic year there is a shuffling of the deck.


Well considering Fountain won't be getting any competition time even if she does continue training(and why would she, considering she was just snubbed), it's pretty hard to see her beating out any of the athletes that are ALREADY ahead of her, much less after they have a full season of world class racing.


Hmm... Interesting logic, considering four of the six push athletes that were named to this year's team are rookies. What happened to the veterans ranked ahead of them who were left home? Look, what Fountain (and ANY rookie breakman) needs more than anything else is repetitions. (You keep saying she was snubbed, but not one of the drivers or coaches selected her over the other girls.) If she is serious about Sochi, she can actually stay back in Lake Placid, Park City or even Calgary and get twice the repetitions as the other rookies who made the World Cup team. The WC athletes get maybe two days of training on each track they compete on, at typically two runs per day plus the two runs in competition. That comes to approx. six trips per week while on tour (an inflated number since they brought six breakmen for only three sled and will want to test each athlete in training). You can see how an athlete who stayed back and just trained hard and took lots of training runs could close the gap on athletes ranked ahead of them. The experience breakmen get on tour isn't as important as you might think. Which is why on nearly every Winter Olympic team you have rookies.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby marknhj » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:50 am

Is there another sport where you can go from having zero experience to getting a berth on an Olympic squad in three weeks?
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:20 am

Helps to have a name to attract attention.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:47 am

marknhj wrote:Is there another sport where you can go from having zero experience to getting a berth on an Olympic squad in three weeks?


Nobody has been named to the Olympic Bobsled team yet. Nobody can make the Olympic Bobsled team in that fashion either.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby aquille » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:09 am

Fountain and Megan Hill finished third in an Americas Cup race in Park City on Wednesday:
http://bit.ly/TRkF6N
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby 18.99s » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:43 am

marknhj wrote:Is there another sport where you can go from having zero experience to getting a berth on an Olympic squad in three weeks?

It took them years to develop the athletic ability to get there.

If a World's Strongest Man contestant makes his country's Olympic team in the shot put after 3 weeks of shot-specific training, it didn't take him just 3 weeks to get there either.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:02 am

18.99s wrote:
marknhj wrote:Is there another sport where you can go from having zero experience to getting a berth on an Olympic squad in three weeks?

It took them years to develop the athletic ability to get there.

If a World's Strongest Man contestant makes his country's Olympic team in the shot put after 3 weeks of shot-specific training, it didn't take him just 3 weeks to get there either.

I doubt very seriously that a person with no shot put experience could make the U.S. Olympic shot put team with just three weeks of training regardless of what their athletic background is, and the same goes with basketball players trying to make the high jump team, wide recievers trying to make the 100 team and baseball pitchers trying to make the javelin team. Obviously, there are many athletes in other sports who possess the innate ability to make the Olympic team in a variety of track and field events, but all the events are too technique dependent for someone to make the team after only three weeks of training.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby 18.99s » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:38 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I doubt very seriously that a person with no shot put experience could make the U.S. Olympic shot put team with just three weeks of training regardless of what their athletic background is...

Notice that I didn't say the US shot put team.

And this is not about making the actual Olympic team, it's making a larger squad from which the Olympic team will be selected. I think it would be feasible for a top WSM guy to throw 65 feet after 3 weeks of shot-specific training, especially one with a serious Olympic weightlifting background, and doing that well after just 3 weeks may be enough to convince the coach to include him in the group of six (or whatever) to train over the next 16 months for the Olympic team.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:38 am

18.99s wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I doubt very seriously that a person with no shot put experience could make the U.S. Olympic shot put team with just three weeks of training regardless of what their athletic background is...

Notice that I didn't say the US shot put team.

And this is not about making the actual Olympic team, it's making a larger squad from which the Olympic team will be selected. I think it would be feasible for a top WSM guy to throw 65 feet after 3 weeks of shot-specific training, especially one with a serious Olympic weightlifting background, and doing that well after just 3 weeks may be enough to convince the coach to include him in the group of six (or whatever) to train over the next 16 months for the Olympic team.

:?
Here are your words:
18.99s wrote:makes his country's Olympic team in the shot put

I assumed you were talking about making the team in a country with some depth like the U.S., which sends three A qualifiers to the Olympics. If you're saying that a person with no shot put background who's from some small country that doesn't have a trials could be selected to represent his country, that's not saying much IMO. Not only would he not have to make the A standard, he might not even have to make the B standard, based on the credentials of some of the people who were allowed to compete in London. The difference between your scenario and what I'm talking about is that the U.S. is supposed to be one of the world's deepest bobsled countries.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:10 pm

For most WSM contestants it would take a lot longer because they would have to be subject to testing for long enough to pass muster, and I am afraid that many of them would not. Have you noticed how widespread testing is in this competition?
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:46 am

Lolo's sled gets Silver at Lake Placid in international meet. Start gave them a big lead.

See link on Home Page
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:28 pm

26mi235 wrote:Lolo's sled gets Silver at Lake Placid in international meet. Start gave them a big lead.




Not really. Jones and Fenlator were 5th overall off the block at Lake Placid. Fenlator's driving rallied them to 2nd.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:35 pm

More terrific start work by Aja Evans(partnered this week with Elena Meyers) at the Park City WC, easily blasting the fastest starts of the day(5.10, 5.13). Next best was the Canadian overall winners at 5.23 & 5.24. Indeed, Evans' starts are beginning to creep into mens territory, with the majority of the male starts in the mid-4.9 range.

Impressive stuff.

http://utaholympiclegacy.com/system/dow ... 1353124398


Really looking forward to seeing Evans in the sled with Jazmine Fenlator.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby 18.99s » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:00 am

guru wrote:More terrific start work by Aja Evans(partnered this week with Elena Meyers) at the Park City WC, easily blasting the fastest starts of the day(5.10, 5.13). Next best was the Canadian overall winners at 5.23 & 5.24. Indeed, Evans' starts are beginning to creep into mens territory, with the majority of the male starts in the mid-4.9 range.

The men push a heavier sled (min. weight 384 lbs vs. 284 for the women), so you can't compare times across sexes.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby gh » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:30 am

marknhj wrote:Is there another sport where you can go from having zero experience to getting a berth on an Olympic squad in three weeks?


I'm sure bambam can cite you chapter & verse, but as I recall there is still a medal that went unawarded in Paris in '00 (I think). That's because nobody knows who the cox was on one of the boats. At the last minute a team needed somebody, so they picked some young kid out of the crowd. And after the competition he was gone and nobody knew who he was.

bam, that ringing true?
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby Per Andersen » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:48 pm

Can't be many sports though. Synchronized Diving maybe and Ski-Cross since that event is populated mainly by skiers who can't hack it in Alpine skiing.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby aquille » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:54 pm

18.99s wrote:The men push a heavier sled (min. weight 384 lbs vs. 284 for the women), so you can't compare times across sexes.


That's not correct. The men's and women's two-person sleds are both a minimum of 170 kg. The commentators discussed that during this week's race.

US really should have had a sled on the podium this week but Meyers had a disastrous second run and one of the German sleds had a great ride to move up to third.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:07 pm

aquille wrote:The men's and women's two-person sleds are both a minimum of 170 kg. The commentators discussed that during this week's race.


Right. Same for both.


http://www.olympic.org/bobsleigh-equipment-and-history
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby 18.99s » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:16 am

aquille wrote:
18.99s wrote:The men push a heavier sled (min. weight 384 lbs vs. 284 for the women), so you can't compare times across sexes.


That's not correct. The men's and women's two-person sleds are both a minimum of 170 kg. The commentators discussed that during this week's race.


So either they changed the rules, or the link I posted earlier in the thread is wrong. That would also mean Teamusa.org is wrong, and they're apparently run by the USOC based on the copyright notice at the bottom of the page.
http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Bobsled-and- ... ports.aspx
Each division requires a different weight for the sled. Two-man sleds weigh a minimum of 384 lbs for men and 284 lbs for women, while a four-man sled is at minimum 462 lbs.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:53 am

Minimum weight allowances are fairly meaningless. They exist only for safety reasons. Teams try very hard to match the maximum allowances because this is a gravity sport and terminal velocity matters a great deal.
The FIBT website lists Minimum Weight Allowances (sled + runners and without crew) at:
Two-person sleds: 170Kg
Four person sleds: 210Kg

Maximum Weight Allowances (sled + runners with crew and other equipment) at:
Men's two-man: 390Kg
Men's four-man: 630Kg
Women's two-person: 340Kg

This means the difference between the men's and women's two person sled is approx. 100lbs. BUT, most of that weight can be attributed to the weight difference in the two athletes by gender, thus making the start times between the genders pretty much apples to apples. Bottom line; Aja is indeed a beast.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby eroszag » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:34 am

Manwhile, LOLO posted the 2 fastes push times in Canada last week.
Paired with Elana Meyers, they got a 10th overall place, a bit of a disappointment, but the push times were very impressive, the best in both legs.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:02 am

While the start record by Jones and Meyers was impressive, it's worth noting that Aja Evans wasn't in a sled this week(Madison sat out as well).
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby decafan » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:21 am

guru wrote:While the start record by Jones and Meyers was impressive, it's worth noting that Aja Evans wasn't in a sled this week(Madison sat out as well).



Guru, I'm not sure why you feel the need to footnote Jones when she does well. Fact; she and Meyers tied the start record. As in; ties the fastest start time EVER on that track, set by 2010 Gold medalists, Humphries and Moyse. This should put Jones' talent and potential into perspective. This must be very upsetting to someone who roots against her as hard as you do.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby guru » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:00 am

decafan wrote:This must be very upsetting to someone who roots against her as hard as you do.



Friend, I don't root against ANYONE. And while I may not understand the cult of personality that surrounds Jones, and view her bent for Canadian medical expertise with narrowed eyes, I wish her all the best, as I do all of members of humanity.

I am sorry that my stating facts causes you such distress.
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Re: Fountain To Try Bobsled

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:18 pm

guru wrote:
decafan wrote:This must be very upsetting to someone who roots against her as hard as you do.



Friend, I don't root against ANYONE. . . . . . , I wish her all the best, as I do all of members of humanity.

:lol:
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