A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (Locked down several times a year during the major championships)
Vince wrote: The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?
Completing the life's only marathon is a unique experience for everybody who did it, a fairly elite group in the first place. Nothing casual about it.
I believe the reason why Vince may have a hard time understanding this is because he once ran a half marathon on a whim, but what he fails to realize is that you can't run a marathon on a whim. I've never run a marathon, but I have run a half marathon without any special preparation other than the 35-45 miles a week I'd been doing in preparation for a 5K. The day after the 5K, some friends said let's go down to New Orleans and do a half marathon tomorrow. I went along, but since I didn't know what to expect and didn't want to go out too hard, I just settled in at 8:00 pace and got through it with no problems. However, I'm not foolish enough to think that I could have gotten through a marathon that day. Even to crank out 26 8:00-miles, special preparation would have been required which is why these experiences are seared into the memories of most avid runners.
My first, and slowest, marathon was a 4:02:45 at the AAU race on June 17, 1973 over a 5 mile loop course (5 loops, plus a 1.2 mile detour to the San Mateo HS track where we finished. Doug Schmenk won it in 2:15:21, so I was lapped twice (lapped TWICE on a FIVE mile loop!! ).
My fastest marathon came at the Avenue of the Giants in May 1978, time of 2:56:02....my only sub-3:00. I'd come close at Seaside OR in 1975 (3:00:55....on 2:57 pace through 22 miles).
I'm a writer, and I've written DETAILED accounts of my slowest and fastest marathons!!!
No F--ing way Ryan ran a 2:50!! He may not have wanted to write about it, but he sure as hell would've remembered it.....EVERY DETAIL of it!!!
2:56:02 ain't anywhere near national class (I finished 147th out of about 1550 finishers!!), but I can still envision...and describe...EVERYTHING about that race!!
BTW, I've made no secret of the fact I'm a HUGE Sarah Palin fan!! Assuming that Ryan DID run a 4:01 marathon (I DO believe that!!), Sarah ran faster in HER only marathon, a 3:59:36 in Humpy's Marathon in Anchorage, 2005. Also, last September 4th, in a small town in Iowa (about 100 miles west of Des Moines), she ran a 1:46:10 half-marathon. She was 41 when she ran the marathon, and 47 last year when she ran the half!!
Take THAT, Mr Ryan!!
Last edited by aaronk on Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vince wrote: The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?
Completing the life's only marathon is a unique experience for everybody who did it, a fairly elite group in the first place. Nothing casual about it.
Absolutely true. I busted my a*s training for my one and only..... NY Marathon in 1987. I ran 3:50 and was damned proud of it. Now this dork Ryan bullsh*ts about a 2:50 something and I'm not supposed to be PO'ed about it ?! And he wants me to support him for being one heartbeat from the most important job in the world ?????!!!!!!!
At best he's a jerk. At worst, I would like to repeat what I said earlier, but it got deleted !!
I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.
Vince wrote:I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk".
If Ryan had said I don't know, there would be no controversy.
I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.
And I am pretty sure i know what your father was saying. "I do not remember the exact time."
I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.
Which means absolutely nothing. Lots of people just want to finish a marathon, or even run a few, and don't really care about the time. 4, 5, 6 hours who cares. I have met lots of those people. Your father was one of those. I once did the 50 kilometer Birkenbeiner ski race years ago in Hayward, Wisconsin for fun. I have no idea what my time was. All I wanted to do was finish.
But getting to under 3 hours takes, unless you have some real distance talent, dedication and is not something you would forget or take lightly. Certainly not with the dozens of runners I have known through the years.
The point to remember about this is Ryan went out of his way to lie. He could have just said I ran a marathon, and when asked his time said I don't remember, or even 3 hours something. And that would have been fine and no big deal.
However, I suspect this is not the first time he has done this. He probably has lied like this to other people and people are impressed, especially people who know little about elite marathoners. As I mentioned before when folks ask my best time and I mention 2:51, they are really impressed, like I should run in the Olympics or something. Personally I find it a bit embarrassing having lived in Boulder, Eugene and Boston and known well quite a few sub 2:10 runners, including a former WR holder. I even had a girl friend once who ran 2:31!, so I know what a great time is.
Last edited by Conor Dary on Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
I think this is an interesting discussion. So why not just keep the politics out of this thread. I presume everyone knows who Ryan is and what he has said lately and what context this is in. What it means is up to you.
Conor Dary wrote:why not just keep the politics out of this thread.
Good idea, but isn't the only significance of this lie (if Joe Sixpack does it down by the water cooler, it's a 1-minute chuckle) its implications in a huge political campaign? That said, it won't change anything in the election.
Vince wrote: I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.
I think it's notable that your father kept a record of all his marathons in his desk.
Politicians make incorrect statements all the time. Whatever implications this specific incorrect statement has, depends mostly on the media coverage.
I think this incidence is noteworthy for at least two reasons.
1. It is so easily verifiable. If he thought his lie will not be exposed, he is incredibly naive, arrogant or both.
2. It has nothing to do with politics. It is one thing to lie about one's past policy position. Politicians do that all the time. But lying about your marathon PB? What advantage would that possibly give you? Would anyone be more likely to vote for him and Romney because he has run a sub-three marathon?
TN1965 wrote:2. It has nothing to do with politics. It is one thing to lie about one's past policy position. Politicians do that all the time. But lying about your marathon PB? What advantage would that possibly give you? Would anyone be more likely to vote for him and Romney because he has run a sub-three marathon?
Exactly, and I consider incorrect statements about policy positions more relevant for the task at hand (whether to vote for someone in an election) than incorrect statements about one's private life twenty years ago.
TN1965 wrote:2. It has nothing to do with politics. It is one thing to lie about one's past policy position. Politicians do that all the time. But lying about your marathon PB? What advantage would that possibly give you? Would anyone be more likely to vote for him and Romney because he has run a sub-three marathon?
Exactly, and I consider incorrect statements about policy positions more relevant for the task at hand (whether to vote for someone in an election) than incorrect statements about one's private life twenty years ago.
Well, the fact that he told a lie that would not benefit him politically tells us something about his "character."
And one's marathon PB is a very important issue for any serious, or semi-serious runner. When I look at a list of celebrity marathon finishers, I compare their PBs with mine.
TN1965 wrote:2. It has nothing to do with politics. It is one thing to lie about one's past policy position. Politicians do that all the time. But lying about your marathon PB? What advantage would that possibly give you? Would anyone be more likely to vote for him and Romney because he has run a sub-three marathon?
This is the political equivalent of an unforced error since it was never going to benefit Ryan in any signicant. This sort of lie would have no effect on many other politicians who are already percieved as being rascals (eg. Bill Clinton), but it does undercut the boyscout image that Ryan had built up on Capitol Hill.
TN1965 wrote: Well, last year alone, more than 500,000 Americans finished marathons. That's about 0.16% of the population. And how many have run at least one marathon in their lifetime? Moreover, many rec runners who have never run a marathon know how fast a three hour marathon is.
I don't remember the race officials at my last road race ask me what country I came from, or how many times I've run the same distance that year. How exactly can we know that figure you tossed out is true??
The number comes from here. Yes, it counted the finishers of US marathons, not "Americans" who finished marathons. But there are also Americans who finish marathons overseas, so those two probably cancel out each other.
BTW, asking the participant's nationality in the registration form is not uncommon in marathons. I have never seen that in 5K/10K.
TN does this mean you are a liar according to The New Dictionary of Track and Field News Message Board Blowhards since you 1st stated American finishers instead of just finishers? I realize you corrected yourself, but misstating a fact is a lie period....blah, blah , blah, one never forgets.. blah,blah,blah....liar, fitness nut....blah, blah, blah....liar....blah, blah blah.... liar....Ad infinitum.
Yeah, I certainly don't think that marathon times should influence anyone's votes (they would not influence mine under any circumstances) and we all agree with lonewolf that no political group has any special claim to "truthiness".
On a personal level though, I (and a lot of other posters) hold people who throw around questionable T&F marks in the media with a high degree of contempt. As Conor says, we've had several threads about such claims and the vitriol runs high on those.
An individual analogy: My HJ PR was 6'8" but 7' sounds a lot more impressive. So maybe I mention in conversation that I jumped something in the neighborhood of 7 feet. Any high jumper knows that is a huge distortion but others probably don't understand. Then someone points out a database that says I only jumped 6'8" and I reply that I should have rounded the height to 6'10" instead of saying 7 feet!!!
Without implying any political importance whatsoever, lots of track nerds (albeit no one else on earth) would find such statements personally reprehensible.
Similar to the above, my HJ pr is 6' 5 1/2". When asked, I've stated this many, many times. People often have then said, "boy, you know that exactly ! "
It's just something you KNOW and would not dream of exaggerating. Why would you ?
Vince wrote:TN does this mean you are a liar according to The New Dictionary of Track and Field News Message Board Blowhards since you 1st stated American finishers instead of just finishers?
This is a ridiculous comparison and you know it. Ryan lied about his marathon accomplishments, no matter how much you try to soften it. Lonewolf says all politicians lie. Yes, they do. This thread is not about politicians lying in general, it is not about the presidential candidates. It is about one Paul Ryan embellishing his marathon result by 70 minutes. That is a fact.
Tuariki wrote:In honour of the Republican VP candidate we should from now on refer to all TnF exaggerations as "Ryanisms"- except for my 30 foot long jump
I was practically a sub-50 400Her! I was almost an 18-foot PVer! I was close to being a 7-foot HJer! My Dec was just a few points shy of 8000!
I can deliver 4 votes for you. My wife and 3 kids are all US citizens. The 7 grandchildren will still be too young to vote.
You know, if one person, just one person votes for Marlow, they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, together, they may think they're both faggots and they won't believe either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people voting for Marlow and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day walking in voting for Marlow and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.
Funny thing is that if he would have said "I ran 4:00", I would have been impressed, not so much by the time, but by the fact that he completed his race. But lying by over an hour? Should be placed in the Rosie Ruiz file of marathon lowlights.
Something to think about: Are there degrees of ignominy between misspeaking/prevaricating/embellishing/lieing about something of no importance in the grand plan of the universe vs. something of great consequence?
lonewolf wrote:Something to think about: Are there degrees of ignominy between misspeaking/prevaricating/embellishing/lieing about something of no importance in the grand plan of the universe vs. something of great consequence?
So you want to pick nits? I will ask you: Why did he lie about this so quickly, so smoothly, so reflexively, and so effortlessly? Almost as if it is a natural default mode.
lonewolf wrote:Something to think about: Are there degrees of ignominy between misspeaking/prevaricating/embellishing/lieing about something of no importance in the grand plan of the universe vs. something of great consequence?
When it comes to politicians and other people from whom we should expect candor, I make no distinction between prevaricating, equivocating, dissembling, embellishing, omission and lying. However, I do make distinctions about the subject matter. Lying about athleteic accomplishments isn''t as bad as lying about military service. I don't hold misspeaking against anyone, but by misspeaking, I mean brain farts or unintentional jumbling of facts. Obama saying that he had visited 57 states or that his great uncle help liberate the Auschwitz Concentration Camp when it was really Buchenwald Concentration Camp is what I would call misspeaking.
