Paul Ryan Marathon

[Pego]

See what I mean about biases.

I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.

And I am pretty sure i know what your father was saying. "I do not remember the exact time."

[Per Andersen]

When you live in fantasy land what's one more fantasy?

[Conor Dary]

I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.

Which means absolutely nothing. Lots of people just want to finish a marathon, or even run a few, and don't really care about the time. 4, 5, 6 hours who cares. I have met lots of those people. Your father was one of those. I once did the 50 kilometer Birkenbeiner ski race years ago in Hayward, Wisconsin for fun. I have no idea what my time was. All I wanted to do was finish.

But getting to under 3 hours takes, unless you have some real distance talent, dedication and is not something you would forget or take lightly. Certainly not with the dozens of runners I have known through the years.

The point to remember about this is Ryan went out of his way to lie. He could have just said I ran a marathon, and when asked his time said I don't remember, or even 3 hours something. And that would have been fine and no big deal.

However, I suspect this is not the first time he has done this. He probably has lied like this to other people and people are impressed, especially people who know little about elite marathoners. As I mentioned before when folks ask my best time and I mention 2:51, they are really impressed, like I should run in the Olympics or something. Personally I find it a bit embarrassing having lived in Boulder, Eugene and Boston and known well quite a few sub 2:10 runners, including a former WR holder. I even had a girl friend once who ran 2:31!, so I know what a great time is.

[Conor Dary]

I think this is an interesting discussion. So why not just keep the politics out of this thread. I presume everyone knows who Ryan is and what he has said lately and what context this is in. What it means is up to you.

[Marlow]

why not just keep the politics out of this thread.

Good idea, but isn't the only significance of this lie (if Joe Sixpack does it down by the water cooler, it's a 1-minute chuckle) its implications in a huge political campaign? That said, it won't change anything in the election.

[j-a-m]

its implications

Politicians make incorrect statements all the time. Whatever implications this specific incorrect statement has, depends mostly on the media coverage.

[jazzcyclist]

I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.

I think it's notable that your father kept a record of all his marathons in his desk.

[TN1965]

its implications

Politicians make incorrect statements all the time. Whatever implications this specific incorrect statement has, depends mostly on the media coverage.

I think this incidence is noteworthy for at least two reasons.

1. It is so easily verifiable. If he thought his lie will not be exposed, he is incredibly naive, arrogant or both.

2. It has nothing to do with politics. It is one thing to lie about one's past policy position. Politicians do that all the time. But lying about your marathon PB? What advantage would that possibly give you? Would anyone be more likely to vote for him and Romney because he has run a sub-three marathon?

[j-a-m]

2. It has nothing to do with politics. It is one thing to lie about one's past policy position. Politicians do that all the time. But lying about your marathon PB? What advantage would that possibly give you? Would anyone be more likely to vote for him and Romney because he has run a sub-three marathon?

Exactly, and I consider incorrect statements about policy positions more relevant for the task at hand (whether to vote for someone in an election) than incorrect statements about one's private life twenty years ago.

[jhc68]

According to Fox News Ryan now says he should have rounded his time to 4 hours instead of 3 !!!
Say what ?

[Conor Dary]

According to Fox News Ryan now says he should have rounded his time to 4 hours instead of 3 !!!
Say what ?

How do dig a deeper hole that you are already in...

[lonewolf]

I don't know why my early comment was deleted but I will risk repeating that stupidity, spinning, obfuscation and outright lies are bi-partisan.

[TN1965]

2. It has nothing to do with politics. It is one thing to lie about one's past policy position. Politicians do that all the time. But lying about your marathon PB? What advantage would that possibly give you? Would anyone be more likely to vote for him and Romney because he has run a sub-three marathon?

Exactly, and I consider incorrect statements about policy positions more relevant for the task at hand (whether to vote for someone in an election) than incorrect statements about one's private life twenty years ago.

Well, the fact that he told a lie that would not benefit him politically tells us something about his "character."

And one's marathon PB is a very important issue for any serious, or semi-serious runner. When I look at a list of celebrity marathon finishers, I compare their PBs with mine.

[jazzcyclist]

2. It has nothing to do with politics. It is one thing to lie about one's past policy position. Politicians do that all the time. But lying about your marathon PB? What advantage would that possibly give you? Would anyone be more likely to vote for him and Romney because he has run a sub-three marathon?

This is the political equivalent of an unforced error since it was never going to benefit Ryan in any signicant. This sort of lie would have no effect on many other politicians who are already percieved as being rascals (eg. Bill Clinton), but it does undercut the boyscout image that Ryan had built up on Capitol Hill.

[Vince]

Well, last year alone, more than 500,000 Americans finished marathons. That's about 0.16% of the population. And how many have run at least one marathon in their lifetime? Moreover, many rec runners who have never run a marathon know how fast a three hour marathon is.

I don't remember the race officials at my last road race ask me what country I came from, or how many times I've run the same distance that year. How exactly can we know that figure you tossed out is true??

http://www.runningusa.org/State-of-Spor ... ace-Trends

The number comes from here. Yes, it counted the finishers of US marathons, not "Americans" who finished marathons. But there are also Americans who finish marathons overseas, so those two probably cancel out each other.

BTW, asking the participant's nationality in the registration form is not uncommon in marathons. I have never seen that in 5K/10K.

TN does this mean you are a liar according to The New Dictionary of Track and Field News Message Board Blowhards since you 1st stated American finishers instead of just finishers? I realize you corrected yourself, but misstating a fact is a lie period....blah, blah , blah, one never forgets.. blah,blah,blah....liar, fitness nut....blah, blah, blah....liar....blah, blah blah.... liar....Ad infinitum.

You aren't according to me.

[jhc68]

Yeah, I certainly don't think that marathon times should influence anyone's votes (they would not influence mine under any circumstances) and we all agree with lonewolf that no political group has any special claim to "truthiness".

On a personal level though, I (and a lot of other posters) hold people who throw around questionable T&F marks in the media with a high degree of contempt. As Conor says, we've had several threads about such claims and the vitriol runs high on those.

Now, with a further fudging about rounding numbers (http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/19435756/ryan-says-he-misstated-marathon-claim) Mr. Ryan gets under my skin a little more by saying he should have said four hours instead of three when he actually said two fifty.

An individual analogy: My HJ PR was 6'8" but 7' sounds a lot more impressive.
So maybe I mention in conversation that I jumped something in the neighborhood of 7 feet.
Any high jumper knows that is a huge distortion but others probably don't understand.
Then someone points out a database that says I only jumped 6'8" and I reply that I should have rounded the height to 6'10" instead of saying 7 feet!!!

Without implying any political importance whatsoever, lots of track nerds (albeit no one else on earth) would find such statements personally reprehensible.

[dukehjsteve]

Similar to the above, my HJ pr is 6' 5 1/2". When asked, I've stated this many, many times. People often have then said, "boy, you know that exactly ! "

It's just something you KNOW and would not dream of exaggerating. Why would you ?

[Pego]

TN does this mean you are a liar according to The New Dictionary of Track and Field News Message Board Blowhards since you 1st stated American finishers instead of just finishers?

This is a ridiculous comparison and you know it. Ryan lied about his marathon accomplishments, no matter how much you try to soften it. Lonewolf says all politicians lie. Yes, they do. This thread is not about politicians lying in general, it is not about the presidential candidates. It is about one Paul Ryan embellishing his marathon result by 70 minutes. That is a fact.

[Marlow]

It is about one Paul Ryan embellishing his marathon result by 70 minutes. That is a fact.

Are they still looking for WMDs that were definitely in Iraq?

No, and Ryan is STILL a liar.
(not that my skivvies are getting bunched up much about it)

There's the
'I think I remember it right' lie, which all of us occasionally get caught in.

and then there's the
'I know full well it's a lie' lie.

I know that if I were a Ryan fan, I'd laugh it off, so ain't no big thang, but it was an intentional lie IMO.

[Tuariki]

My best ever long jump was 30 feet

rounding to the nearest 10 feet of course

[Friar]

People view lies on a CV or bio differently. Claiming you made a mistake seems unlikely.

[Tuariki]

In honour of the Republican VP candidate we should from now on refer to all TnF exaggerations as "Ryanisms"- except for my 30 foot long jump

[Marlow]

In honour of the Republican VP candidate we should from now on refer to all TnF exaggerations as "Ryanisms"- except for my 30 foot long jump

I was practically a sub-50 400Her!
I was almost an 18-foot PVer!
I was close to being a 7-foot HJer!
My Dec was just a few points shy of 8000!

Vote Marlow 2016!!

[Tuariki]

Vote Marlow 2016!!

I can deliver 4 votes for you. My wife and 3 kids are all US citizens. The 7 grandchildren will still be too young to vote.

[Marlow]

Vote Marlow 2016!!

I can deliver 4 votes for you. My wife and 3 kids are all US citizens. The 7 grandchildren will still be too young to vote.

You know, if one person, just one person votes for Marlow, they may think he's really sick and they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, together, they may think they're both faggots and they won't believe either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people voting for Marlow and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day walking in voting for Marlow and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

[with apologies to Arlo Guthrie . . . ]

[bruce3404]

Funny thing is that if he would have said "I ran 4:00", I would have been impressed, not so much by the time, but by the fact that he completed his race. But lying by over an hour? Should be placed in the Rosie Ruiz file of marathon lowlights.

[lonewolf]

Something to think about:
Are there degrees of ignominy between misspeaking/prevaricating/embellishing/lieing about something of no importance in the grand plan of the universe vs. something of great consequence?

[kuha]

Something to think about:
Are there degrees of ignominy between misspeaking/prevaricating/embellishing/lieing about something of no importance in the grand plan of the universe vs. something of great consequence?

So you want to pick nits? I will ask you: Why did he lie about this so quickly, so smoothly, so reflexively, and so effortlessly? Almost as if it is a natural default mode.

[lonewolf]

I have no idea and that is not the question.

[jazzcyclist]

Something to think about:
Are there degrees of ignominy between misspeaking/prevaricating/embellishing/lieing about something of no importance in the grand plan of the universe vs. something of great consequence?

When it comes to politicians and other people from whom we should expect candor, I make no distinction between prevaricating, equivocating, dissembling, embellishing, omission and lying. However, I do make distinctions about the subject matter. Lying about athleteic accomplishments isn''t as bad as lying about military service. I don't hold misspeaking against anyone, but by misspeaking, I mean brain farts or unintentional jumbling of facts. Obama saying that he had visited 57 states or that his great uncle help liberate the Auschwitz Concentration Camp when it was really Buchenwald Concentration Camp is what I would call misspeaking.

[kuha]

I have no idea and that is not the question.

I don't either but it seems like a rather important question in the great scheme of things.

But, back to your question above: your attempt to excuse and downplay this bit of lying is an explicitly and entirely political act.

The REAL point is a simple one: He lied. It is a fact that he lied. He lied about something WE, collectively here, care about and understand. The larger meaning of that fact is up to us. But our view of it cannot and will not change the fact that Ryan lied.

[jazzcyclist]

Here's a great column on this subject by a right-winger from eight years, when John Kerry was accused of telling a marathon fib.

I am married to a long-distance runner. As any similarly situated spouse or significant other will tell you, runners are statistics freaks. Over the course of our 11-year-marriage (and nearly three years of courtship beforehand), I have had to listen to the stories behind every race and notable run my hubby has undertaken–from the fun runs he ran as a kid to every college steeplechase race to every community 5k and 10k race he has run in Los Angeles, Seattle, and the D.C. area. I have had to hear time and again about the training regimens before the races, the weather conditions on the day of each race, what was eaten before each run, and, of course, the times of each run.

But that’s not all. Runners aren’t only obsessed with their own times and performances. They’re obsessed with everyone else’s times and performances, too. My hubby, like most serious runners, is a font of running trivia. Want to know what the splits were for the winner of the Chicago Marathon in 1985? Or who the most recent American distance runner to win an Olympic medal was? Or the name of the first female finisher in the Boston Marathon in 1980? You get the idea.

So, anyway, the b.s. detector of my husband and many other runners went crazy when Kerry told sports reporters that he had run the Boston Marathon. This is a significant athletic achievement, if true. There is no official record of him having run, however, and the November issue of Runner’s World reports that “he doesn’t recall his time…”

http://michellemalkin.com/2004/10/08/jo ... athon-man/

Give credit to Runner's World for their willingness to expose the Pinnochios on both sides of the aisle.

[spinoza]

Something to think about:
Are there degrees of ignominy between misspeaking/prevaricating/embellishing/lieing about something of no importance in the grand plan of the universe vs. something of great consequence?

Certainly: lying about the former gives one much greater insight into the nature of one's character than the latter. There may be reasons, good reasons indeed, to lie about things that touch on matters of great consequence. Consider, for example, Churchill. He was prepared to lie about the latter, understanding the moral context and alternatives. Churchill, however, was not the kind to lie about the trivial, when there are no motives other than the personal. Ryan, of course, is no Churchill. More generally: those prepared to lie about the trivial are those without any moral grounding at all. The sort I'd never want as a friend, or a teacher to my son, or as any kind of a leader. Potential president of the U.S.? Give me a break.

2:44.12, Trails End, 1971. My only marathon, and much more proud of it than before Ryan. Just think: I did something that a serious candidate for the vice presidency of the U.S. couldn't, but which was an achievement significant enough to him that he was prepared to pretend that he did.

[Marlow]

those prepared to lie about the trivial are those without any moral grounding at all. The sort I'd never want as a friend, or a teacher to my son, or as any kind of a leader.

Tough crowd.
I lie to my students all the time. I present them with a logical argument, whose premise I know to be false, then I say, "Right?", and when they agree, I say, "NO! Stop taking what I say at face value!"

I say all sorts of things in class: truths, half-truths, little white lies, big whoppers, outrageous things - just to see what they will do with them. Lies are all around us and we need to challenge each and every one of them. But . . . and why I take exception to your statement above, when my wife tells me how handsome I am, certainly merely a 'trivial lie', I don't think she lacks character, just a sense of aesthetic misperception.