Paul Ryan Marathon


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Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby jhc68 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:40 am

Apart from any political pros or cons, it seems that the Vice-Presidential candidate can be added to the list of T&F stretchers-of-the-truth. Apparently he recently mentioned having run a marathon 20 years ago and finishing in the "2:50 something" range. A pretty impressive debut in the 26 miler, but not quite accurate:
http://news.runnersworld.com/2012/08/31/paul-ryan-says-hes-run-sub-300-marathon/
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:46 am

I saw this and it has got quite a bit of press. Quite a difference between 2 fifty something and 4 hours.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:27 am

I saw too but I decided not to post since it might be a violation of forum rules. As CD pointed out, there's a huge difference between 2:50 and 4:00. People who aren't runners or track fans won't think it's a big deal, but the rest of us know better. Runners don't just forget how they performed in their first marathon, especially if it's their only one.This is just what the doctor ordered for Ryan's critics who had already decided after his convention speech that they would portray him as a pathological liar.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Master Po » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:18 am

Setting aside any comments about voting or political affiliations, seems to me this ought to be as fair game here as the T&F untruths told by other public figures, regardless of their professions. We call it what it is: a lie. And, for someone whose public image is in part bolstered by his fitness exploits, it is not an innocent lie (whatever those might be). I'm sure he knows full well the difference between a 4:01 marathon and a 2:5x marathon. And to write off the lie to the passage of time -- which is the way I read the followup comments -- is truly bogus. How many of us on here, whether we competed internationally or at the club level, cannot remember our best performances? Ryan's claim to a "2:50-something" when in fact it was a 4:01 would be like me saying, "well, it was about 25 years ago, but as I recall, I won that marathon," when instead what I did was run that marathon. Hey -- it's only a change of two letters in a three-letter word -- not a big difference, right? And besides, it was a long time ago...sheesh.

I had no opinions about this guy one way or another, but now I do. He's a liar.

The reality is -- I'm sure it is the case for most of us -- we remember our marks with great precision, especially those that are our lifetime bests.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:31 am

Master Po wrote:The reality is -- I'm sure it is the case for most of us -- we remember our marks with great precision, especially those that are our lifetime bests.

Exactly! This wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me if I was considering voting for him for high office, but it's still disingenuous of him to write this off as a case of faulty memory.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Vince » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:10 am

I haven't run a Marathon, but I've run a half marathon, and I can say for sure I did it just to say I finished. I think it is highly likely he ran a Marathon just to see if he was able to do it. I can't come close to remembering my time, but what I do remember vividly is how painful it was. It's entirely plausible he was just guessing at his time. It's very easy to throw around the liar moniker, which seems purely politically motivated, instead of just pointing out the facts and letting the person respond to them.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:25 am

Vince wrote:I haven't run a Marathon, but I've run a half marathon, and I can say for sure I did it just to say I finished. I think it is highly likely he ran a Marathon just to see if he was able to do it. I can't come close to remembering my time, but what I do remember vividly is how painful it was. It's entirely plausible he was just guessing at his time. It's very easy to throw around the liar moniker, which seems purely politically motivated, instead of just pointing out the facts and letting the person respond to them.


I don't want to get into the politics of this at all. But the difference between 2:50 something and 4 hours is night and day. Unless you have some national class ability a sub 3 hour marathon is not trivial and you definitely would remember it vividly. Especially if it is your fastest and only marathon and for a fitness nut like Ryan.

The idea he was just guessing his time, being an hour off, is silly.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:36 am

I know plenty of casual runners who have walked/jogged 5K's and 10K's, who I am sure have no idea what their times were, but the folks whom I would call "avid runners" have very meticulous memories when it comes to their times. It is my impression that Ryan is in the latter group, not the former.

This reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe. - Euripides
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby kuha » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:28 pm

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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby j-a-m » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:55 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I know plenty of casual runners who have walked/jogged 5K's and 10K's, who I am sure have no idea what their times were, but the folks whom I would call "avid runners" have very meticulous memories when it comes to their times. It is my impression that Ryan is in the latter group, not the former.

I ran a marathon ten years ago, and I'm not sure if I ran 3:55 or 4:05. Give it another ten years, and who knows what I remember...
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby j-a-m » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:59 pm

Doesn't Paul Ryan have skills in bow hunting? With the new popularity of archery, maybe he should focus on that...

Oh, and he's spent several years in congress. So maybe it makes more sense to judge him based on his voting record, and not on his memory of a marathon he ran twenty years ago.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Master Po » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:31 pm

Vince wrote:I haven't run a Marathon, but I've run a half marathon, and I can say for sure I did it just to say I finished. I think it is highly likely he ran a Marathon just to see if he was able to do it. I can't come close to remembering my time, but what I do remember vividly is how painful it was. It's entirely plausible he was just guessing at his time. It's very easy to throw around the liar moniker, which seems purely politically motivated, instead of just pointing out the facts and letting the person respond to them.


I couldn't disagree with you more. I know exactly why I called him a liar. It's because he lied about running a "2:50-something" marathon when he ran a 4:01. I don't give a rip about any of the politics, the parties, the elections. This is a person whose public persona is in part a matter of how fit he is -- P90x, etc., etc. Conor is right -- Ryan guessing at his marathon time and being off by an hour -- in the direction that favors him and his fitness profile -- is lying. I don't give a shit if he's a dentist or a doctor or a governor or whatever. I don't care who votes for whom, or why, or whether they vote at all. Let's just call it what it is. That guy lied about his marathon time. If he couldn't remember his time, it's pretty easy to say, "I don't remember." I remember my best marks, but I don't remember all of my marks. If someone asked me what I ran in a particular race, and I couldn't remember, I'd say that. And I sure as hell wouldn't "guess" that I was a lot faster than I actually was.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:43 pm

The other thing is that Ryan is probably familiar enough with elite marathon times to know that he's not capable of 2:5x.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:48 pm

j-a-m wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I know plenty of casual runners who have walked/jogged 5K's and 10K's, who I am sure have no idea what their times were, but the folks whom I would call "avid runners" have very meticulous memories when it comes to their times. It is my impression that Ryan is in the latter group, not the former.

I ran a marathon ten years ago, and I'm not sure if I ran 3:55 or 4:05. Give it another ten years, and who knows what I remember...


Running a 4 hour marathon is no big deal, especially for a 20 year old. Get around 3 hours and that is a whole new ball game and you would remember.
Last edited by Conor Dary on Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:50 pm

j-a-m wrote:

Oh, and he's spent several years in congress. So maybe it makes more sense to judge him based on his voting record, and not on his memory of a marathon he ran twenty years ago.


For obvious reasons we are not judging his record or talking about his politics. Just pointing that he claimed something he didn't do, and it is easy to determine whether it was true. Which of course it was not.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Vince » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:55 pm

I bet about .001% of the American public knows/cares what a "good" Marathon time is.
Last edited by Vince on Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:56 pm

Vince wrote:I bet about .001% of the American public knows/cares what a "good" Marathon time.


So what. But anyways, for someone who is a fitness nut, they are usually pretty aware, what a good time is. At the local park district I get a few questions, since I run a lot over there, from non runners if I am running the Chicago Marathon. I say my marathon days are over, and if I ever tell them my best time, 2:51, they almost always seemed shocked that anyone can run so fast. That is like the Kenyans, one guy said.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby TN1965 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:13 pm

Vince wrote:I bet about .001% of the American public knows/cares what a "good" Marathon time is.


Well, last year alone, more than 500,000 Americans finished marathons. That's about 0.16% of the population. And how many have run at least one marathon in their lifetime? Moreover, many rec runners who have never run a marathon know how fast a three hour marathon is.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby dukehjsteve » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:26 pm

I see my post got deleted. It's not ok here, I guess to call someone a lying sack of something.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Vince » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:30 pm

Master Po wrote:
Vince wrote:I haven't run a Marathon, but I've run a half marathon, and I can say for sure I did it just to say I finished. I think it is highly likely he ran a Marathon just to see if he was able to do it. I can't come close to remembering my time, but what I do remember vividly is how painful it was. It's entirely plausible he was just guessing at his time. It's very easy to throw around the liar moniker, which seems purely politically motivated, instead of just pointing out the facts and letting the person respond to them.


I couldn't disagree with you more. I know exactly why I called him a liar. It's because he lied about running a "2:50-something" marathon when he ran a 4:01.


Misstating a fact is not the definition of a lie or a liar. The purposeful intention to deceive is a lie. Since only a small fraction of the U.S. population knows what a good Marathon time is, or that Ryan is a so called "fitness nut"(this board is the 1st time I heard that one), I doubt he could have benefited in the least from anyone knowing he had a good Marathon time. It doesn't follow he would lie about it to gain some advantage because there is no advantage to having a good Marathon time.
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Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:40 pm

Vince wrote:

Misstating a fact is not the definition of a lie or a liar. The purposeful intention to deceive is a lie. Since only a small fraction of the U.S. population knows what a good Marathon time is, or that Ryan is a so called "fitness nut"(this board is the 1st time I heard that one), I doubt he could have benefited in the least from anyone knowing he had a good Marathon time. It doesn't follow he would lie about it to gain some advantage because there is no advantage to having a good Marathon time.


The guy lied. Whether he did it for political purposes, trying to impress an interviewer or whatever is irrelevant and I couldn't care less. If some guy at the park district told me he ran a 2:50 marathon and only ran 4 hours I would say he was not telling the truth.

If I went around saying I ran a 2:15 marathon, that would be a lie. No if, ands or but about it. It would be closer to the truth than what Ryan claimed, but still a lie.


As for being a fitness nut:

    The Wisconsin congressman is an avid fitness buff whose toned, lean body is chiseled by P90X routines — among the toughest of workouts, health experts tell USA TODAY.

    "It's really the higher end of programs," says Tim Church, director of preventive medicine at Lousiana State University's Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Baton Rouge. "It's good to see that he knows how to take care of himself, especially if there's a chance he could be president down the road."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/sto ... 57039866/1



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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby kuha » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:42 pm

    Vince wrote:Misstating a fact is not the definition of a lie or a liar. The purposeful intention to deceive is a lie. Since only a small fraction of the U.S. population knows what a good Marathon time is, or that Ryan is a so called "fitness nut"(this board is the 1st time I heard that one), I doubt he could have benefited in the least from anyone knowing he had a good Marathon time. It doesn't follow he would lie about it to gain some advantage because there is no advantage to having a good Marathon time.


    Your wasting your effort here. A supposedly "smart" guy--and a "numbers" guy, at that--specified a marathon time with some precision that was radically and provably incorrect. I ran one marathon in 1978 and to this day I can remember the exact clock time when I finished. Finishing your first marathon is actually a fairly big deal.

    You may not want to use the term "lie" here, but we can all agree that Ryan's original story was a willful falsehood. The big question is whether his disregard for the truth of this specific matter is just a one-off/who cares? sort of thing, or a more chronic and telling condition. That's where the "politics" starts.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Vince » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:43 pm

    TN1965 wrote:
    Well, last year alone, more than 500,000 Americans finished marathons. That's about 0.16% of the population. And how many have run at least one marathon in their lifetime? Moreover, many rec runners who have never run a marathon know how fast a three hour marathon is.


    I don't remember the race officials at my last road race ask me what country I came from, or how many times I've run the same distance that year. How exactly can we know that figure you tossed out is true??
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:52 pm

    Vince wrote:
    TN1965 wrote:
    Well, last year alone, more than 500,000 Americans finished marathons. That's about 0.16% of the population. And how many have run at least one marathon in their lifetime? Moreover, many rec runners who have never run a marathon know how fast a three hour marathon is.


    I don't remember the race officials at my last road race ask me what country I came from, or how many times I've run the same distance that year. How exactly can we know that figure you tossed out is true??


    Since Chicago has 45,000, NYC has almost 50,000, etc. 500,000 sounds about right.

    Last year there were 524,746 marathon finishers. Of those less then 10,000 or about 1.9% ran under 3 hours. So running under 3 hours puts you in the amateur elite.

    http://www.marathonguide.com/Features/A ... erview.cfm
    Last edited by Conor Dary on Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby TN1965 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:54 pm

    Vince wrote:
    TN1965 wrote:
    Well, last year alone, more than 500,000 Americans finished marathons. That's about 0.16% of the population. And how many have run at least one marathon in their lifetime? Moreover, many rec runners who have never run a marathon know how fast a three hour marathon is.


    I don't remember the race officials at my last road race ask me what country I came from, or how many times I've run the same distance that year. How exactly can we know that figure you tossed out is true??


    http://www.runningusa.org/State-of-Spor ... ace-Trends

    The number comes from here. Yes, it counted the finishers of US marathons, not "Americans" who finished marathons. But there are also Americans who finish marathons overseas, so those two probably cancel out each other.

    BTW, asking the participant's nationality in the registration form is not uncommon in marathons. I have never seen that in 5K/10K.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Vince » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:01 pm

    kuha wrote:
    Your wasting your effort here. A supposedly "smart" guy--and a "numbers" guy, at that--specified a marathon time with some precision that was radically and provably incorrect. I ran one marathon in 1978 and to this day I can remember the exact clock time when I finished. Finishing your first marathon is actually a fairly big deal.

    You may not want to use the term "lie" here, but we can all agree that Ryan's original story was a willful falsehood. The big question is whether his disregard for the truth of this specific matter is just a one-off/who cares? sort of thing, or a more chronic and telling condition. That's where the "politics" starts.


    Just pointing out the obvious kuha. Unfortunately people are blinded by their own biases. Finishing a Marathon was a big deal to you, but does everyone in the U.S.A. think exactly like you.....of course not. The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Conor Dary » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:18 pm

    Vince wrote:

    Just pointing out the obvious kuha. Unfortunately people are blinded by their own biases. Finishing a Marathon was a big deal to you, but does everyone in the U.S.A. think exactly like you.....of course not. The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?


    No need for political bias. The guy lied. End of story.

    And if you have run a sub 3 hour marathon it is a major sporting accomplishment, which is true for anything that puts you in the top 2 per cent of participants.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:30 pm

    Vince wrote:Just pointing out the obvious kuha. Unfortunately people are blinded by their own biases. Finishing a Marathon was a big deal to you, but does everyone in the U.S.A. think exactly like you.....of course not. The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?

    As I said earlier, the more avid a person is about their fitness activities, the more precise their memory tends to be about their performances. There are a few avid runners on Capitol Hill on both sides of the aisle who will know how big a deal 2:5x is. I wonder if any of the Democrats will try to make hay out of it.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Pego » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:43 pm

    Vince wrote: The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?


    Completing the life's only marathon is a unique experience for everybody who did it, a fairly elite group in the first place. Nothing casual about it.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby kuha » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:53 pm

    Vince wrote:Just pointing out the obvious kuha. Unfortunately people are blinded by their own biases. Finishing a Marathon was a big deal to you, but does everyone in the U.S.A. think exactly like you.....of course not. The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?


    You appear to endorse the fundamental idea of lying. In that spirit, I will say: You are very insightful and I agree with you completely.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:59 pm

    Pego wrote:
    Vince wrote: The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?


    Completing the life's only marathon is a unique experience for everybody who did it, a fairly elite group in the first place. Nothing casual about it.

    I believe the reason why Vince may have a hard time understanding this is because he once ran a half marathon on a whim, but what he fails to realize is that you can't run a marathon on a whim. I've never run a marathon, but I have run a half marathon without any special preparation other than the 35-45 miles a week I'd been doing in preparation for a 5K. The day after the 5K, some friends said let's go down to New Orleans and do a half marathon tomorrow. I went along, but since I didn't know what to expect and didn't want to go out too hard, I just settled in at 8:00 pace and got through it with no problems. However, I'm not foolish enough to think that I could have gotten through a marathon that day. Even to crank out 26 8:00-miles, special preparation would have been required which is why these experiences are seared into the memories of most avid runners.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby aaronk » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:57 pm

    My first, and slowest, marathon was a 4:02:45 at the AAU race on June 17, 1973 over a 5 mile loop course (5 loops, plus a 1.2 mile detour to the San Mateo HS track where we finished.
    Doug Schmenk won it in 2:15:21, so I was lapped twice (lapped TWICE on a FIVE mile loop!! :oops:
    ).

    My fastest marathon came at the Avenue of the Giants in May 1978, time of 2:56:02....my only sub-3:00.
    I'd come close at Seaside OR in 1975 (3:00:55....on 2:57 pace through 22 miles).

    I'm a writer, and I've written DETAILED accounts of my slowest and fastest marathons!!!

    No F--ing way Ryan ran a 2:50!!
    He may not have wanted to write about it, but he sure as hell would've remembered it.....EVERY DETAIL of it!!!

    2:56:02 ain't anywhere near national class (I finished 147th out of about 1550 finishers!!), but I can still envision...and describe...EVERYTHING about that race!!

    BTW, I've made no secret of the fact I'm a HUGE Sarah Palin fan!!
    Assuming that Ryan DID run a 4:01 marathon (I DO believe that!!), Sarah ran faster in HER only marathon, a 3:59:36 in Humpy's Marathon in Anchorage, 2005.
    Also, last September 4th, in a small town in Iowa (about 100 miles west of Des Moines), she ran a 1:46:10 half-marathon.
    She was 41 when she ran the marathon, and 47 last year when she ran the half!!

    Take THAT, Mr Ryan!!
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby dukehjsteve » Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:59 pm

    Pego wrote:
    Vince wrote: The exact time may not have been a big deal to him.....isn't that even conceivable?


    Completing the life's only marathon is a unique experience for everybody who did it, a fairly elite group in the first place. Nothing casual about it.



    Absolutely true. I busted my a*s training for my one and only..... NY Marathon in 1987. I ran 3:50 and was damned proud of it. Now this dork Ryan bullsh*ts about a 2:50 something and I'm not supposed to be PO'ed about it ?! And he wants me to support him for being one heartbeat from the most important job in the world ?????!!!!!!!

    At best he's a jerk. At worst, I would like to repeat what I said earlier, but it got deleted !!
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Vince » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:13 pm

    See what I mean about biases. :roll: :roll: :roll:

    I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:45 pm

    Vince wrote:I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk".

    If Ryan had said I don't know, there would be no controversy.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Pego » Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:57 pm

    Vince wrote:See what I mean about biases. :roll: :roll: :roll:

    I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.


    And I am pretty sure i know what your father was saying. "I do not remember the exact time."
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Per Andersen » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:59 pm

    When you live in fantasy land what's one more fantasy?
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Conor Dary » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:45 am

    Vince wrote:

    I just asked my father, quite the avid runner 20 years ago what his best time in the Marathon was and he said, " I don't know, I'd have to go find my old paperwork in my desk". He was an engineer(quite good with numbers) and ran at least 3 Marathons that I remember. Not everyone remembers everything that happened 20 years ago.


    Which means absolutely nothing. Lots of people just want to finish a marathon, or even run a few, and don't really care about the time. 4, 5, 6 hours who cares. I have met lots of those people. Your father was one of those. I once did the 50 kilometer Birkenbeiner ski race years ago in Hayward, Wisconsin for fun. I have no idea what my time was. All I wanted to do was finish.

    But getting to under 3 hours takes, unless you have some real distance talent, dedication and is not something you would forget or take lightly. Certainly not with the dozens of runners I have known through the years.

    The point to remember about this is Ryan went out of his way to lie. He could have just said I ran a marathon, and when asked his time said I don't remember, or even 3 hours something. And that would have been fine and no big deal.

    However, I suspect this is not the first time he has done this. He probably has lied like this to other people and people are impressed, especially people who know little about elite marathoners. As I mentioned before when folks ask my best time and I mention 2:51, they are really impressed, like I should run in the Olympics or something. Personally I find it a bit embarrassing having lived in Boulder, Eugene and Boston and known well quite a few sub 2:10 runners, including a former WR holder. I even had a girl friend once who ran 2:31!, so I know what a great time is.
    Last edited by Conor Dary on Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Conor Dary » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:53 am

    I think this is an interesting discussion. So why not just keep the politics out of this thread. I presume everyone knows who Ryan is and what he has said lately and what context this is in. What it means is up to you.
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    Re: Paul Ryan Marathon

    Postby Marlow » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:03 am

    Conor Dary wrote:why not just keep the politics out of this thread.

    Good idea, but isn't the only significance of this lie (if Joe Sixpack does it down by the water cooler, it's a 1-minute chuckle) its implications in a huge political campaign? That said, it won't change anything in the election.
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