Call From Sunday Night Football


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Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby Wayne T. Armbrust » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:53 pm

Around noon today, I guess because of my occupation as a T&F consultant, I got a call from someone from NBC's Sunday Night Football. I'm sorry, but I didn't get the man's name. He wanted to know if I could help him determine where 40 yards would be on the track at London so that they could figure out times for that distance for Bolt and others in the 100 final. First I got him to figure out how far 40 yd. was in meters (36.576). I then told him to look on their video for yellow marks on the lane lines that denote the women's hurdles. I then told him that the 4th women's hurdle was 38.500 m from the start of the 100, and that they were spaced 8.500 m apart. He said that with that information it would be possible for them to determine how long it took for the runners to go 40 yd.

Of course I told him that this was like comparing apples and oranges because of the difference in football and track timing. Football timing starts when the timer reacts to the first motion of the player, and stops as the timer anticipates the player getting to the finish, making the same error that inexperienced hand timers make when they are unable to closely approximate auto times. Track timing, of course, starts when gun (or other device) goes off, and stops at the finish. The track athlete gets disqualified if he starts sooner than 0.100 sec after the gun, average reaction time is about 0.150 sec. Football timing, using the standard hand time to auto time correction of .24 s, will therefore result in a net difference of approx. 0.390 sec less than auto track timing.

It will be interesting if they put on anything about this. I told him that football players were closer to women 100 runners than men. :D
Last edited by Wayne T. Armbrust on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby Marlow » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:48 pm

Wayne T. Armbrust wrote:I told him that football players were closer to women 100 runners than men. :D

Jacksonville Jaguar cornerback (typically the quickest guys on the field), Aaron Ross, has already admitted that his wife (a certain Sanya Richards-Ross) can whip his butt in a sprint.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby guru » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:25 pm

Wayne T. Armbrust wrote: Football timing starts when the timer reacts to the first motion of the player, and stops as the timer anticipates the player getting to the finish, making the same error that inexperienced hand timers make when they are unable to closely approximate auto times.



At least at the NFL combine they use the Speedtrap timing system, which activates when the player's hand leaves a pressure pad, and stops when he crosses an eyebeam. And while it's not track FAT, especially the start, it's a solid system(I have one myself) that takes the human element out of the equation.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby Wayne T. Armbrust » Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:35 pm

guru wrote:
Wayne T. Armbrust wrote: Football timing starts when the timer reacts to the first motion of the player, and stops as the timer anticipates the player getting to the finish, making the same error that inexperienced hand timers make when they are unable to closely approximate auto times.



At least at the NFL combine they use the Speedtrap timing system, which activates when the player's hand leaves a pressure pad, and stops when he crosses an eyebeam. And while it's not track FAT, especially the start, it's a solid system(I have one myself) that takes the human element out of the equation.


Well, that would eliminate the hand-auto timing error, but not the reaction time after the gun. Also, the footballer can keep his hand on the pad for several hundredths after he starts moving.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:31 am

guru wrote:
Wayne T. Armbrust wrote: Football timing starts when the timer reacts to the first motion of the player, and stops as the timer anticipates the player getting to the finish, making the same error that inexperienced hand timers make when they are unable to closely approximate auto times.



At least at the NFL combine they use the Speedtrap timing system, which activates when the player's hand leaves a pressure pad, and stops when he crosses an eyebeam. And while it's not track FAT, especially the start, it's a solid system(I have one myself) that takes the human element out of the equation.

You have the second part right, but not the first part. Mark Gorscak is the starter at the NFL combine, not an electronic pressure pad. though I'm familiar with the system you're talking about. I guess that would make it an SAT timing system. There's talk of replacing Gorscak with an electronic starting system but there 's been some pushback because of the inevitably slower times that would result. Here's Gorscak giving instructions to the quarterbacks a couple of years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dC0R1Paj0tA

Personally, I think that the much slower running surface and the lack of starting blocks pretty much negates the reaction time advantage at the Combine, or at least makes the comparison a lot closer than many track fans think.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:32 pm

Marlow wrote:Jacksonville Jaguar cornerback (typically the quickest guys on the field), Aaron Ross, has already admitted that his wife (a certain Sanya Richards-Ross) can whip his butt in a sprint.


Since she's really about as fast as an above average high school boy in the 400m, he's probably just being nice to keep from being cut off in the bedroom.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:14 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:
Marlow wrote:Jacksonville Jaguar cornerback (typically the quickest guys on the field), Aaron Ross, has already admitted that his wife (a certain Sanya Richards-Ross) can whip his butt in a sprint.


Since she's really about as fast as an above average high school boy in the 400m, he's probably just being nice to keep from being cut off in the bedroom.

How many NFL defensive backs do you think can run a sub-49 400 just off of football conditioning? I happened to have had a conversation with Ross on this subject at this year's Penn Relays, and his feeling was that he could handle her at any distance of 120 meters or less, that she could handle him at distance of 300 meters or greater and that everything in between was unkown. He said that the problem with setting up a race would be that they would never be able to agree on a distance.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:57 pm

I think pretty much any NFL wide receiver or corner back could run a one-off sub 50 400m. All the guys in these two positions could probably easily be <10.7 100m guys right now. There's no way, outside of those that can't pace themselves, most of them can't hang on for 50 seconds. This in no way degrades any woman's performance but it's just the nature of difference in performance between the sexes.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:42 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:I think pretty much any NFL wide receiver or corner back could run a one-off sub 50 400m. All the guys in these two positions could probably easily be <10.7 100m guys right now. There's no way, outside of those that can't pace themselves, most of them can't hang on for 50 seconds. This in no way degrades any woman's performance but it's just the nature of difference in performance between the sexes.

I guarantee you that you're way off base, and I'm not just spouting idle speculation and conjecture either. I've seen firsthand how slow football players are when they try to run one-offs right in the middle of track season without much training, and I'm not talking scrubs either, I'm talking first-round wide recievers and two-sport athletes who were All-Americans in track. Most of these guys would struggle to break 11 seconds under these circumstances. Keep in mind, that most of these guys are considerably heavier than they were when they were high school when many of them ran track, For example, RGIII said that he weighed 190 pounds when he ran at the Olympic trials as an 18-year-old but he weighed in at 223 pounds at this year's NFL Scouting Combine. About three or four years ago, Florida had several football players go out for the track team in order to put together a 4x100 relay team, and I think only one of them was able to run sub-11, and there's no doubt that all of these guys would have done significantly better if they had had more time. Aaron Ross has done enough workouts with Sanya to know that a 400 meter match race wouldn't be pretty, trust me.
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Re: Call From Sunday Night Football

Postby lonewolf » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:36 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:[ I've seen firsthand how slow football players are when they try to run one-offs right in the middle of track season without much training, .

Yep. Not NFL but sixty years ago we had football backs who had been state sprint champions come out for track and could not make the 440 relay team.
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