MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids


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MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Grasshopper » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:48 am

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8271981/melky-cabrera-san-francisco-giants-suspended-50-games

Oh how things are different between sports. Melky admits to doping and gets a whopping 50-game suspension (less than 1/3 of his season, right?), and will still probably make millions of dollars this year. How can Joe-Sixpack still continue believing that there is less of a PED problem in the big-money sports than in T&F and/or cycling? Maybe this will be a good for the reputation of T&F, as it's coming right on the heals of an Olymipcs with no high-profile (to the general public) steroid disqualifications (from T&F, anyway).
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Half Miler » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:12 pm

While I agree with your sentiments, I'm a huge Giants fan and this is a major bummer! :(
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:55 pm

Grasshopper wrote: How can Joe-Sixpack still continue believing that there is less of a PED problem in the big-money sports than in T&F and/or cycling?


Belief has nothing to do with it. The public really doesn't care, especially when it comes to team sports.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby kuha » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:15 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
Grasshopper wrote: How can Joe-Sixpack still continue believing that there is less of a PED problem in the big-money sports than in T&F and/or cycling?


Belief has nothing to do with it. The public really doesn't care, especially when it comes to team sports.


Exactly. Why does that fact seem to never actually register here? For the public, steroid busts are only "popular" in sports no one cares about.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby odelltrclan » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:25 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
Grasshopper wrote: How can Joe-Sixpack still continue believing that there is less of a PED problem in the big-money sports than in T&F and/or cycling?


Belief has nothing to do with it. The public really doesn't care, especially when it comes to team sports.


Besides the fact that the media (who make a killing off of those team sports) touts how good their drug testing programs are, etc. and moves on to the next topic at hand like it is an after thought. They make no attempt at other events (cycling, track, etc.) because they don't have a vested interest in them. If they were to report how corrupt and dirty those sports were, they would only be shooting themselves in the feet and they know it.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby bad hammy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:20 am

The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:30 am

bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.


True, but it still only a third of the season.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Grasshopper » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:21 am

Conor Dary wrote:
bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.

True, but it still only a third of the season.

...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby bad hammy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:44 am

Grasshopper wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.

True, but it still only a third of the season.

...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?

Nope, baseball chose not to follow the "Let's kill off our sport" path that T&F uses in dealing with PEDs.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby marknhj » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:59 am

I continue to be astounded by otherwise sensible posters refusal to accept that there is a monstrous difference between cheating in a skill-based team sport compared to cheating in a sport defined by optimal individual physical performance (never mind the fraud involved in taking other athlete's prize money, endorsement fees, moment-of-glory, creating bogus reputations, cheating the public, screwing up performance lists etc etc etc).
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Dutra5 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:58 am

Grasshopper wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.

True, but it still only a third of the season.

...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?


For the first time today...I heard a couple of ex players suggest just this. Dale Murphy being one of them.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby j-a-m » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:08 pm

Conor Dary wrote:True, but it still only a third of the season.

Exactly, and that's basically equivalent to just four months for a t&f athlete.
Last edited by j-a-m on Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby j-a-m » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:11 pm

Dutra5 wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?

For the first time today...I heard a couple of ex players suggest just this. Dale Murphy being one of them.

That would be an actual deterrent.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby j-a-m » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:19 pm

bad hammy wrote:That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.

If you compare this to penalties for t&f athletes, then it's out of balance, and different standards are applied.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:26 pm

j-a-m wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum. Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?

For the first time today...I heard a couple of ex players suggest just this. Dale Murphy being one of them.

That would be an actual deterrent.


You would think so. Teammates and fans would not be quite so forgiving.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby bad hammy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:36 pm

Grasshopper wrote:...and how much money does he still make off the season? Probably quite a large sum.

His salary was $6 mil this year. His lifetime MLB earnings prior to this year were about $6.6 mil. Of course he should be in good shape but he'll feel a bit of pain.


Conor Dary wrote:
j-a-m wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:Also, do the Giants forfeit all the wins that Cabrera helped earn (in the way that relay teams forfeit their medals when one member is DQ'd)?

For the first time today...I heard a couple of ex players suggest just this. Dale Murphy being one of them.

That would be an actual deterrent.
You would think so. Teammates and fans would not be quite so forgiving.

Interesting idea - that could be an excellent deterrent. Of course neither the owners or players would ever voluntarily go for it.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:03 pm

marknhj wrote:I continue to be astounded by otherwise sensible posters refusal to accept that there is a monstrous difference between cheating in a skill-based team sport compared to cheating in a sport defined by optimal individual physical performance (never mind the fraud involved in taking other athlete's prize money, endorsement fees, moment-of-glory, creating bogus reputations, cheating the public, screwing up performance lists etc etc etc).


Ok, please elaborate on your statement. Please describe why:

1. There should be a monstrous difference between cheating in team sports and cheating in "other" sports.

2. Why those who may not agree are not "sensible"
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby j-a-m » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:52 am

marknhj wrote: difference between cheating in a skill-based team sport

In baseball, being stronger and hitting with more power leads to better performances. And that's exactly what many substances on the WADA list are about. In addition, baseball has a long season with short recovery times, which is what some other substances on the list are about.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:44 am

bad hammy wrote:
Interesting idea - that could be an excellent deterrent. Of course neither the owners or players would ever voluntarily go for it.


Of course not. But I would be curious if the baseball writers take up this cause. It certainly would be a great idea. If you thought Gatlin got a bad reception in London see what kind of reception Cabrera in San Francisco would get if the Giants had to default on even 10 games. Ha!
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:31 am

On the radio this morning, I heard a baseball insider say that attittudes among players are starting to change and lot of them are pissed off at Cabrera, not for any altruistic reasons but because he was about to be a free agent and if he wasn't caught, he would have gotten an eight-figure contract which means less money available for them.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby cullman » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:18 am

Cabrera gets to sit out a suspension with team mate Guillermo Mota who is serving a 100 gamer for getting caught a second time.

The American League contenders are PO'd at him because the National League World Series representative will have home field advantage in large part due to winning the All-Star Game and Melkman's All-Star Game MVP performance.

Cabrera could also win the NL batting title if Andrew McCutchen's average drops more than 13 points. What will Bud Selig do?
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Friar » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:14 pm

On the radio this morning,

Old acquaintance "Accelerator" was on. He did a nice job explaining how it's pretty easy to do as you please in terms of continued PED use in MLB.
But maybe that was the idea, look like you were doing something but do nothing?
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:26 pm

Friar wrote:
On the radio this morning,

Old acquaintance "Accelerator" was on. He did a nice job explaining how it's pretty easy to do as you please in terms of continued PED use in MLB.
But maybe that was the idea, look like you were doing something but do nothing?


That sounds about right. But baseball writers still babble on about the steroid era, as if somehow it ended.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:35 am

I still continue to be amazed at the difference in reaction to a MLB player testing positive and an NFL player testing positive.

We are beginning to see the call for game results to be overturned...something I think is extremely far fetched. Can anyone imagine suggesting that in the NFL?
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:35 am

Friar wrote:
On the radio this morning,

Old acquaintance "Accelerator" was on. He did a nice job explaining how it's pretty easy to do as you please in terms of continued PED use in MLB.
But maybe that was the idea, look like you were doing something but do nothing?


The NFL has been doing this for at least two decades.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:48 am

Dutra5 wrote:I still continue to be amazed at the difference in reaction to a MLB player testing positive and an NFL player testing positive.

We are beginning to see the call for game results to be overturned...something I think is extremely far fetched. Can anyone imagine suggesting that in the NFL?


Or in the college game?
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby gh » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:24 pm

what if the Melkman wins the batting title?

Bruce Jenkins in the SF Chron today:

<<Dark shadows
How would MLB feel if Melky Cabrera, now viewed as a fraud, won the batting title? He'll wind up with 501 plate appearances, one shy of the minimum requirement to qualify, but according to the so-called Tony Gwynn rule, officially 10.22 (a), all plate appearances short of the minimum are allowed to be counted as outs. (Gwynn hit .353 in 498 plate appearances in 1996, but was awarded the batting title because his adjusted .349 bettered the .344 of second-ranked Ellis Burks.) Cabrera's average would factor out to .3457, so that's the target to be surpassed by Andrew McCutchen or anyone else. I believe Bud Selig just checked with McCutchen to make sure he has enough pine tar ...>>
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:29 pm

The Chicago Tribune had the same thought. Selig is in quite a bind if Cabrera wins. Ha!

Asterisk, here I come!
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:40 pm

Conor Dary wrote:The Chicago Tribune had the same thought. Selig is in quite a bind if Cabrera wins. Ha!

Asterisk, here I come!

There is a precedent for bans on post-season awards under such circumstances in the NFL. It's called the Merriman Rule.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007 ... er-goodell
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Dutra5 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:11 pm

Selig just simply come out and declare that Cabrera is not eligible for the batting title. I can't see the downside to that.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby j-a-m » Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:39 pm

Dutra5 wrote:Selig just simply come out and declare that Cabrera is not eligible for the batting title. I can't see the downside to that.

The downside of that would be that it's an arbitray ruling after the fact; and it wouldn't be made to solve the issue, but rather to avoid negative press. The right decision for Selig would be put something like this in place for future seasons, but give Melky the batting title if he wins it this year, and live with the justified negative press.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:13 am

j-a-m wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:Selig just simply come out and declare that Cabrera is not eligible for the batting title. I can't see the downside to that.

The downside of that would be that it's an arbitray ruling after the fact; and it wouldn't be made to solve the issue, but rather to avoid negative press. The right decision for Selig would be put something like this in place for future seasons, but give Melky the batting title if he wins it this year, and live with the justified negative press.

I agree with this, you can't make up rules after the fact. Shawne Merriman still got the sack title in 2006. The union would never stand for Cabrera being denied the batting crown.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:37 am

This, fortunately, opens a big can of worms for Selig. If you say the batting title doesn't count, what about home runs hit during a career? Pitching wins? What to do?????
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Dutra5 » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:33 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
j-a-m wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:Selig just simply come out and declare that Cabrera is not eligible for the batting title. I can't see the downside to that.

The downside of that would be that it's an arbitray ruling after the fact; and it wouldn't be made to solve the issue, but rather to avoid negative press. The right decision for Selig would be put something like this in place for future seasons, but give Melky the batting title if he wins it this year, and live with the justified negative press.

I agree with this, you can't make up rules after the fact. Shawne Merriman still got the sack title in 2006. The union would never stand for Cabrera being denied the batting crown.


While I agree with some of the points being made, does the union have any say on who wins the batting crown? Is that part of the CBA?
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:07 pm

Selig should add to Cabrera's punishment after orchestrating such an elaborate lie after being caught redhanded.
The scheme began unfolding in July as Cabrera and his representatives scrambled to explain a spike in the former Yankee's testosterone levels. Cabrera associate Juan Nunez, described by the player's agents, Seth and Sam Levinson, as a "paid consultant" of their firm but not an "employee," is alleged to have paid $10,000 to acquire the phony website. The idea, apparently, was to lay a trail of digital breadcrumbs suggesting Cabrera had ordered a supplement that ended up causing the positive test, and to rely on a clause in the collectively bargained drug program that allows a player who has tested positive to attempt to prove he ingested a banned substance through no fault of his own.

"There was a product they said caused this positive," one source familiar with the case said of Cabrera's scheme. "Baseball figured out the ruse pretty quickly."

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... -1.1139623
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby freddie » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:03 am

bad hammy wrote:The 50 games costs Cabrera about $2 million in salary. Additionally this is a contract year for him so he likely just cost himself many millions more on a fat extension the Giants were working on. Not to mention the Giants lose one of their key players for the playoff drive. That's a decent penalty in most folk's books.


Good point. It's not really about the $2 million in salary lost this year. It's about the $30 to $50 million of guaranteed money that he stood to gain on next year's free agent market (his contract with the Giants was up at the end of the season). If you look at Cabrera's numbers last year with the Royals (305 ba, 201 hits, 18 hr), which were significantly better than his career norms, it seems likely that before last year he decided to juice to reap potentially huge financial gains on the open market. He rolled the dice and lost. Unfortunately, I believe that too many athletes are still willing to take the same chance in the hope of making big money in the future.
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby einnod23 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:26 am

To be honest, I had thought that "being out of New York" was the main factor in Melky's improvement. Yes, it went from .269 as a career Yankee to a whopping .346 as a Giant. But I thought of a lot of folk who flourished outside of the jungle of New York (see AJ Burnett's 15-4 in Pittsburgh this year!).

But I'm realizing the difference. Burnett, for all of his issues in New York, has quite a few seasons with double-digit wins. Melky only has the .305 in KC and .346 in San Fran to show. In New York, I thought Melky had the best center field arm in baseball, but no where near having a bat!
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby EPelle » Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:47 am

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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:12 am

With only a 50-game (2 months) suspension for first-time offenders abd no risk of having your guaranteed contract voided, is anyone surprised that baseball players continue to dope?
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Re: MLB All-Star MVP Suspended for Steroids

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:30 am

jazzcyclist wrote:With only a 50-game (2 months) suspension for first-time offenders abd no risk of having your guaranteed contract voided, is anyone surprised that baseball players continue to dope?


But they won't let you go to the Hall of Fame!

Seriously, you are right. By the way, I hear on ESPN that in some clubhouses these guys are claiming there are inspectors all the time, which I find hard to believe. With 30 teams, how many inspectors are there?
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