Robert Griffin III


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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby GDAWG » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:52 pm

Sooner or later, Marquise Goodwin is going to have to decide on a pro football career or become a pro track athlete. Money will play a significant factor.

Also, didn't Destinee Hooker choose volleyball after failing to make the Olympic team in Track and Field in 2008?
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:00 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
justcallmev wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:...and add to that, once kids are in those sports they (and their parents) are being sold ($$$) on the idea that they MUST specialize and commit themselves fully and soley to that ONE sport if they hope to have any success in high school, college, and beyond.


So true. I played soccer, tennis, and ran track growing up and one of the reasons I backburnered soccer when at the elite level was because I was encouraged to give up the other two sports. Being that track was my first love, that wasn't going to happen :)

Both of you make some good points. However, the money-boosters-agents-sychophants factor only comes into play when it comes to football and boys basketball. That's why the NCAA uses different rules to govern those two sports. I don't think there are boosters walking around offering hundreds of thousands of dollars to sign girl volleyball and soccer players to their alma maters, a la Cam Newton.

Furthermore, if you don't think that adolescent boys who are involved in sports are dreaming about fame, fortune and living large these days, you're being naive.


It's not strictly money. Girls soccer and basketball at the youth (AAU) level is encouraged as a complete committ and parents see scholarships with these sports as well as a sport such as Volleyball. At least that's the way it's sold.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Barto » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:07 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
justcallmev wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:...and add to that, once kids are in those sports they (and their parents) are being sold ($$$) on the idea that they MUST specialize and commit themselves fully and soley to that ONE sport if they hope to have any success in high school, college, and beyond.


So true. I played soccer, tennis, and ran track growing up and one of the reasons I backburnered soccer when at the elite level was because I was encouraged to give up the other two sports. Being that track was my first love, that wasn't going to happen :)

Both of you make some good points. However, the money-boosters-agents-sychophants factor only comes into play when it comes to football and boys basketball. That's why the NCAA uses different rules to govern those two sports. I don't think there are boosters walking around offering hundreds of thousands of dollars to sign girl volleyball and soccer players to their alma maters, a la Cam Newton.

Furthermore, if you don't think that adolescent boys who are involved in sports are dreaming about fame, fortune and living large these days, you're being naive.


The point is that the most athletically gifted young girls are "recruited" into team sports at a very young age in the US. This happens in track as well, but not nearly to the same extent as with basketball, soccer, and volleyball. Track is mostly left with the kids who don't have the resources to play AAU basketball or be on a select traveling soccer/volleyball team (i.e. the scraps).
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:46 pm

Griffin graduated hs in Dec of senior year for early admission (spring football) at Baylor. So the times run at Baylor were those of typical hs senior.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Barto » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:40 am

Bruce Kritzler wrote:Griffin graduated hs in Dec of senior year for early admission (spring football) at Baylor. So the times run at Baylor were those of typical hs senior.


Watching him run during his Jr. year I felt pretty certain the HS 300h record was going to be toast!
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:15 am

Dutra5 wrote:It's not strictly money. Girls soccer and basketball at the youth (AAU) level is encouraged as a complete committ and parents see scholarships with these sports as well as a sport such as Volleyball. At least that's the way it's sold.

Good point. In the Caribbeans, there are no other sports competing for young girls like there is on the U.S.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby preston » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:56 am

Pego wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:yet Jamaica still matches us depthwise


I don't think they do. A B-team, say, Gardner (11.10)-Tarmoh (11.07)-Duncan (10.96)-Anderson [11.12] (Williams [11.15]) would be way above of Jamaica's B, actually, this B-team could compete with anybody.

I don't think you could describe it as way above, there's a good argument that Jamaica's "B" would outright win over USA "B" . Off the top of my head Aleen Bailey (11.04), Sherry Ann Brooks (11.05), Schillonie Calvert (11.05, Samantha Henry (11.11). And, that's just 2012. If you take a look at PB's for other Jamaicans you get...Facey (10.95;'08); Russell (11.05-'11), Levy (11.10-'11).

There is a very strong argument that Jamaica's "B" Team of 2012 beats USA's "B" Team of 2012. And, if we compared Jamaica's "A" of 2008 (same athletes as 2012) versus USA's "A" of 2012 we would see that "on paper", where no races are run, JAM was faster (10.78[CJ-10.78], 10.80[TM-10.85], 10.87[AF-10.89], 10.87[BK-11.13]).
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby justcallmev » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:15 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:It's not strictly money. Girls soccer and basketball at the youth (AAU) level is encouraged as a complete committ and parents see scholarships with these sports as well as a sport such as Volleyball. At least that's the way it's sold.

Good point. In the Caribbeans, there are no other sports competing for young girls like there is on the U.S.



Don't forget to add swimming into this mix too. I am also beginning to wonder if we'll start to see more Caribbean nations competing in the pool over the next 5 - 10 years?
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:19 am

justcallmev wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:It's not strictly money. Girls soccer and basketball at the youth (AAU) level is encouraged as a complete committ and parents see scholarships with these sports as well as a sport such as Volleyball. At least that's the way it's sold.

Good point. In the Caribbeans, there are no other sports competing for young girls like there is on the U.S.



Don't forget to add swimming into this mix too. I am also beginning to wonder if we'll start to see more Caribbean nations competing in the pool over the next 5 - 10 years?

Not only swimming, but what about Walcott being an inspriration to Caribbean kids wanting to take field events more seriously.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby justcallmev » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:27 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
justcallmev wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:It's not strictly money. Girls soccer and basketball at the youth (AAU) level is encouraged as a complete committ and parents see scholarships with these sports as well as a sport such as Volleyball. At least that's the way it's sold.

Good point. In the Caribbeans, there are no other sports competing for young girls like there is on the U.S.



Don't forget to add swimming into this mix too. I am also beginning to wonder if we'll start to see more Caribbean nations competing in the pool over the next 5 - 10 years?

Not only swimming, but what about Walcott being an inspriration to Caribbean kids wanting to take field events more seriously.


Great point. I would like to see this too!
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby j-a-m » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:42 am

Grasshopper wrote:I don't know if it's a nation-wide phenomenon, but where I live in California (and I experienced the same when I was coaching in Washington) club-volleyball and club-soccer are pushing 1-sport specialization big-time, and since those sports tend to be more "fun" at a young age, and have more a team element, girls are choosing them over track by the masses.

Yes, and what may make soccer appear to be more "fun" is that it's less about getting good at something, and more about pretending to get good at something. In t&f there are objective ways to figure out whether someone improves or not. In soccer you can have a kid run mindlessly back and forth, and pretend that kid is getting better.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:49 am

j-a-m wrote:
Grasshopper wrote:I don't know if it's a nation-wide phenomenon, but where I live in California (and I experienced the same when I was coaching in Washington) club-volleyball and club-soccer are pushing 1-sport specialization big-time, and since those sports tend to be more "fun" at a young age, and have more a team element, girls are choosing them over track by the masses.

Yes, and what may make soccer appear to be more "fun" is that it's less about getting good at something, and more about pretending to get good at something. In t&f there are objective ways to figure out whether someone improves or not. In soccer you can have a kid run mindlessly back and forth, and pretend that kid is getting better.

But those pretend-to-be-good kids probably wouldn't excel at track anyway.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby GDAWG » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:06 pm

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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby j-a-m » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:23 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:But those pretend-to-be-good kids probably wouldn't excel at track anyway.

Some of them, sure. But we are talking about kids at a young age who may take a different path in life, depending on the environment they're put in. Environment that encourages real improvement and achievement (like t&f), good path. Environment that encourages being busy running back and forth on a soccer field, not so good path.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Charley Shaffer » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:58 pm

One of the several Subway TV ads states that Griffin "was a world class hurdler." Maybe as a junior, but not as a senior athlete, at least if the term is strictly applied--I believe that T&FN has, in the past, stated that it meant that someone had, or could have, made an Olympic or Worlds final. Alas, misuse of that phrase is omnipresent these days.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby lonewolf » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:04 pm

j-a-m wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:But those pretend-to-be-good kids probably wouldn't excel at track anyway.

Some of them, sure. But we are talking about kids at a young age who may take a different path in life, depending on the environment they're put in. Environment that encourages real improvement and achievement (like t&f), good path. Environment that encourages being busy running back and forth on a soccer field, not so good path.

And then, sometimes you just can't figure kids out.
If the forum will indulge me in a personal illustrative kid conundrum...
Charley Lonewolf, 11, has demonstrated considerable skill among his peers in both soccer and basketball, was recruited to elite teams and plays up a year.
For whatever reason he prefers to play soccer when he has to choose between conflicting schedules. Maybe because he scores a lot. But, he was also voted MVP on his basketball team and gets lot of attention so that may not be it.
He is as fast as any kid on either team but declines to indulge his granddaddy and try running track because he thinks he is not fast enough. He has won the annual Presidents Physical Fitness at his school since the third grade, winning the half mile as a third and fourth grader, the mile as a fifth grader; followed by winning the City Meet of Champions mile against older, bigger 6th graders. Since he had no idea how to pace for a mile, his self-devised strategy was to run directly behind whoever wants to lead and then out run them down the finishing straight. Sound familiar?
I don't know what his times are but he must not be too slow. He would just rather play soccer. Go figger.:?
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Daisy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:01 am

lonewolf wrote:He would just rather play soccer. Go figger.:?

He's still young for track and field and the soccer will help his endurance. When he gets older he'll probably do both.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Master Po » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:37 am

lonewolf wrote:Charley Lonewolf ... Since he had no idea how to pace for a mile, his self-devised strategy was to run directly behind whoever wants to lead and then out run them down the finishing straight.


lonewolf -- Smart kid! Sounds like you've got a good one there, lonewolf, and he's lucky to have you. Enjoy it! :)
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby GDAWG » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:00 am

Jeff Demps to sign with New England:

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/1930 ... -over-bucs
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby guru » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:14 pm

Congrats to Mike Shanahan for reinjuring Griffin's knee, all for one game. You just hope he didn't tear anything, though I wouldnt be surprised if it's been torn since December and the Redskins have buried it. Watching Griffin limp around on the field tonight before he went down you just wonder what the hell he was doing out there in the first place.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby gh » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:51 am

I was listening to a national sports radio show yesterday afternoon, and they had one eye on the set at the time and were all over Shanahan. Supposedly back at the time of theoriginal injury he sent Griffin back in without getting clearance from the team doctor. They were howling for his head.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby highjumpfan » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:56 am

A tale of two teams. In Washington, one time is vilified for taking its young star out to prevent injury even though his team had the best record in the sport. By contrast another team with a sensational young star leaves him in despite an obvious injury and the results spoke for themselves.

Who was right, the Nationals or the Redskins? In hindsight, obviously the Nats look like geniuses.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby guru » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:09 am

gh wrote: Supposedly back at the time of the original injury he sent Griffin back in without getting clearance from the team doctor.



Not only that, but Shanahan said he was told by team doctor Dr James Andrews that Griffin was good to go, while Andrews - one of the most respected sports medicine doctors in the country - said he never even got a chance to examine Griffin on the day of the original injury, much less medically clear Griffin to return to the game.


http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/ ... ith-rg-iii
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby guru » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 pm

Looks like he tore his ACL and LCL(warning: picture not for the squeamish)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... -suggests/


Shanahan should be fired.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Marlow » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:54 pm

guru wrote:Looks like he tore his ACL and LCL(warning: picture not for the squeamish)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... -suggests/
Shanahan should be fired.

Nah, according to the Adrian P model, they'll be thanking Shanahan for making RBG3 the Best QB in 2013!
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby guru » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:21 am

Well, now that it's been confirmed that Griffin did indeed tear his ACL and LCL Sunday, and faces 8-10 months of rehab(if things go well), I have a question. Considering the NFL is so concerned with player safety that it fines and/or suspends players who so much as brush a helmet when making a hit, why is there nothing but crickets emanating from the league office regarding Shanahan putting the obviously compromised Griffin on the field?
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby gh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:39 am

highjumpfan wrote:A tale of two teams. In Washington, one time is vilified for taking its young star out to prevent injury even though his team had the best record in the sport. By contrast another team with a sensational young star leaves him in despite an obvious injury and the results spoke for themselves.

Who was right, the Nationals or the Redskins? In hindsight, obviously the Nats look like geniuses.


The Nats look like idiots too. Even if you accept that restricting Strasberg's activity was the right thing to do (I think they got that wrong as well, but that's another story), having him pitch full-bore for part of the season then sitting him down was silly from where I sit.

If you figure he only gets x pitches during the year, and he's rolling along really well but you want to stick with that figure anyway, then simply start pitching him on an extra days' rest, or never pitch him more than 4 innings or so. Or make him a middle reliever. Something, anything! There had to be all kinds of creative ways to keep his arm in shape without throwing it out so he was available for the post-season. Windows of opportunity in pro sports more often than not are very small, and given the run they were on in 2012, they should have gone for it.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:52 am

The thing that's baffling about the Redskins is that they had a competent backup. Isn't the reason they drafted Cousins last year was because they figured RGIII would miss games because of his style of play?
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby KDFINE » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:09 am

Interesting take on what just happened by Maureen Dowd on the op-ed page of today's N.Y. Times.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:37 am

gh wrote:
highjumpfan wrote:A tale of two teams. In Washington, one time is vilified for taking its young star out to prevent injury even though his team had the best record in the sport. By contrast another team with a sensational young star leaves him in despite an obvious injury and the results spoke for themselves.

Who was right, the Nationals or the Redskins? In hindsight, obviously the Nats look like geniuses.


The Nats look like idiots too. Even if you accept that restricting Strasberg's activity was the right thing to do (I think they got that wrong as well, but that's another story), having him pitch full-bore for part of the season then sitting him down was silly from where I sit.

If you figure he only gets x pitches during the year, and he's rolling along really well but you want to stick with that figure anyway, then simply start pitching him on an extra days' rest, or never pitch him more than 4 innings or so. Or make him a middle reliever. Something, anything! There had to be all kinds of creative ways to keep his arm in shape without throwing it out so he was available for the post-season. Windows of opportunity in pro sports more often than not are very small, and given the run they were on in 2012, they should have gone for it.


I agree with this. Was pretty idiotic and completely cynical what the Nats did.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby guru » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:08 am

For those of you quick to rip the Nationals, let's not forget at the start of the 2012 season Strasburg was one season removed from a ruptured UCL, and coming off 18 months of rehab.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulnar_coll ... ent_injury
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:53 am

guru wrote:For those of you quick to rip the Nationals, let's not forget at the start of the 2012 season Strasburg was one season removed from a ruptured UCL, and coming off 18 months of rehab.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulnar_coll ... ent_injury


Yes, we know all about that. Nothing new there. No one is saying shortening his season was wrong. It was how they went about it.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby gh » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:55 am

actually, you can put me in the camp who thinks they were at least marginally wrong in shortening his season at all. Rehab sitch well understood.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:51 pm

Daisy wrote:
lonewolf wrote:He would just rather play soccer. Go figger.:?

He's still young for track and field and the soccer will help his endurance. When he gets older he'll probably do both.


Well, Gwen (Hardesty) Coogan played soccer until she switched to track as a freshman -- in college. She soon won several DIII 3000m titles and made the Olympic team in the 10,000 while working on her PhD in math (Number Theory, I think) at Colorado.

One thing I like about track and field -- it is one of those (few) sports you can do while enjoying playing as a kid rather than having to work to be a good athlete as a kid. Seems like you cannot play baseball, soccer, swim etc. now at a good level unless you play and typically play intensively as a kid.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Dutra5 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:23 pm

guru wrote:Well, now that it's been confirmed that Griffin did indeed tear his ACL and LCL Sunday, and faces 8-10 months of rehab(if things go well), I have a question. Considering the NFL is so concerned with player safety that it fines and/or suspends players who so much as brush a helmet when making a hit, why is there nothing but crickets emanating from the league office regarding Shanahan putting the obviously compromised Griffin on the field?


It's not about safety. It's about preventing lawsuits or to present themselves as "doing something about it" for current lawsuits involving head injuries.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:20 pm

26mi235 wrote:
Daisy wrote:
lonewolf wrote:He would just rather play soccer. Go figger.:?

He's still young for track and field and the soccer will help his endurance. When he gets older he'll probably do both.


Well, Gwen (Hardesty) Coogan played soccer until she switched to track as a freshman -- in college. She soon won several DIII 3000m titles and made the Olympic team in the 10,000 while working on her PhD in math (Number Theory, I think) at Colorado.

One thing I like about track and field -- it is one of those (few) sports you can do while enjoying playing as a kid rather than having to work to be a good athlete as a kid. Seems like you cannot play baseball, soccer, swim etc. now at a good level unless you play and typically play intensively as a kid.


Actually it is Gwyn. If I remember right her dissertation was on elliptical functions.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:16 am

I was thinking number theory because a recently departed hot-shot number theorist who came ten - fifteen years ago brought along four or five mathematicians to work with him and she was one of them. She only lived a few blocks away, as did Rod DeHaven and as does Tim Hacker. Thus, in my daughter's elementary school covering K-2, there were kids from all three and good runners in each family. Rod went to South Dakota to coach at his alma mater and Gwyn did the same going back to New England to teach math at her prep school alma mater (maybe the best one in the States) while hubby coaches at Dartmouth. Too bad for Madison West, they would have had even strong XC teams.... (boys won states, girls third this year :) )

Katrina Coogan was the strong fifth runner as a frosh who finished ahead of the fifth runner of the other contenders and thus helped her team to the NCAA title in 2011.

Same Hacker is a red-shirt frosh at Wisconsin (where dad was NCAA champ); however kid three is likely the star runner of the kids.

Rod DeHaven's oldest son was a surprise Footlocker Finalist last year (as a sophomore?), although he did not race well at the MW FL this year.
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:21 am

26mi235 wrote:

Katrina Coogan was the strong fifth runner as a frosh who finished ahead of the fifth runner of the other contenders and thus helped her team to the NCAA title in 2011.


Yes, I know Katrina. I once babysat her back in 1995. Ho, ho...
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Re: Robert Griffin III

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:12 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
26mi235 wrote:

Katrina Coogan was the strong fifth runner as a frosh who finished ahead of the fifth runner of the other contenders and thus helped her team to the NCAA title in 2011.


Yes, I know Katrina. I once babysat her back in 1995. Ho, ho...


And I ran with her while I was in grad school and she transferred to Harvey Mudd for her junior year (and then back to Smith for her senior year, which was her plan).
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