Gun (Lack of) Control


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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:44 pm

mump boy wrote:We don't have the need to defend ourselves because we have very few murders, because we have very few guns.

You don't have many gun crimes but you still have murders.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Marlow » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:17 pm

JRM wrote:perhaps the powers above can split this thread starting with guru's post on the first page.

Please do.
If that doesn't happen, and someone wants to continue that futile discussion, please start a gun thread. Thank you
.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:22 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
mump boy wrote:We don't have the need to defend ourselves because we have very few murders, because we have very few guns.

You don't have many gun crimes but you still have murders.


Yea, but the numbers are infinitesimal compared to the US.

    The number of murders and killings in England and Wales has fallen to the lowest level in nearly 30 years, Office for National Statistics figures show.

    Police recorded 550 homicides in 2011-12, 88 fewer than the previous year and the lowest number since 1983.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384

By the way, it didn't take long to blame the victims.

    Former Arizona State Sen. Russell Pearce wrote a missive Saturday highlighting the collective failure of the victims of the Aurora, Colo. massacre to stop the shooter who left 12 people dead and nearly 60 wounded in a movie theater.

    The outspoken conservative — known for his ardent pro-gun and anti-illegal-immigration views — later sought to clarify that he was merely blaming gun control laws.

    Early Saturday morning, the former Republican lawmaker took to Facebook to mourn the victims. He then wondered why none were “[b]rave” enough to stop the atrocity.

    “Where were the men of flight 93???? Someone should have stopped this man,” he wrote. “…All that was needed is one Courages/Brave man prepared mentally or otherwise to stop this it could have been done.”

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012 ... fpnewsfeed
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Conor Dary » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:24 pm

Marlow wrote:
JRM wrote:perhaps the powers above can split this thread starting with guru's post on the first page.

Please do.
If that doesn't happen, and someone wants to continue that futile discussion, please start a gun thread. Thank you
.


Marlow, just start a Movie only thread on your own. In fact I will do it. :D
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Marlow » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:37 pm

done,
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Vince » Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:57 pm

JRM wrote:
Vince wrote:Stop avoiding the point that common items can cause mass murder even if you banned all guns.


That's a complete distraction to the issue at hand. Anything can be used to kill someone, if the murderer is motivated enough. BUT there is only ONE weapon that can be used on the spur of the moment to kill someone *instantaneously* before giving them a chance to react (without taking out the person using it). And all you have to do it point it at them, and you don't even have to be near them to do it. Most explosives, chemical, biological, or even radiological weapons can't do that.




Vince wrote:A little perspective, number of murders in the US in 2010 approx. 16000. and 60% to 70% caused by firearms. Deaths by Motor Vehicles in 2010 were approx 33000 in the US..... suicides in the US in 2009 were approx. 37000.


60% to 70% is an overwhelming majority, so you've undermined your entire argument with that statistic. As for the other numbers, they are irrelevant comparisons.


First of all, stick to the topic which was mass murder like Aurora. There are many ways a lunatic Doctoral student could have carried out that madness and gun control wouldn't stop it.

Regarding your second statement, I wasn't making any argument at all with those facts, you cobbled it together with the first one to make your illogical grandiose pronouncement.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby JRM » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:38 pm

Vince wrote:First of all, stick to the topic which was mass murder like Aurora. There are many ways a lunatic Doctoral student could have carried out that madness and gun control wouldn't stop it.


Here's the topic: he used a GUN to kill 12 people and injure 58. There is no other weapon he could have done that with in the time allotted, short of a hand-grenade or improvised explosive device (which are illegal). What topic am I not sticking to? Exactly what kind of ingenious weapon do you think a neuroscience Ph.D. student going to come up with?

Vince wrote:
JRM wrote:
Vince wrote:A little perspective, number of murders in the US in 2010 approx. 16000. and 60% to 70% caused by firearms. Deaths by Motor Vehicles in 2010 were approx 33000 in the US..... suicides in the US in 2009 were approx. 37000.


60% to 70% is an overwhelming majority, so you've undermined your entire argument with that statistic. As for the other numbers, they are irrelevant comparisons.


Regarding your second statement, I wasn't making any argument at all with those facts, you cobbled it together with the first one to make your illogical grandiose pronouncement.


I see. You were quoting random statistics for fun. No problem, then.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:29 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
mump boy wrote:We don't have the need to defend ourselves because we have very few murders, because we have very few guns.

You don't have many gun crimes but you still have murders.


as i previously posted 550 in a year compared to US 16,000 !! adjusted for population that approx 6 times more murders than usm, mainly driven by guns, you have 3 times as many gun murders than we have murders in general !! *

What ever 'freedoms' this affords you glady free from them

*mump boys maths skills are not what they should be :?
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Vince » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:51 am

JRM wrote:
Here's the topic: he used a GUN to kill 12 people and injure 58. There is no other weapon he could have done that with in the time allotted, short of a hand-grenade or improvised explosive device (which are illegal). What topic am I not sticking to? Exactly what kind of ingenious weapon do you think a neuroscience Ph.D. student going to come up with?


A match, balloons filled with oil/gas, a blocked exit in a crowded theater.

JRM wrote:


I see. You were quoting random statistics for fun. No problem, then.


PS: Look up the meaning of perspective.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jeremyp » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:24 am

Vince wrote:
jeremyp wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote: #4 makes no sense to me. Are you saying that the NRA's media campaign is making people more trigger happy? However, I do think #1 (urbanization of America) and #2 (media violence) seem very plausible. #2 has been discussed before, but I had never thought of #1 which makes a lot of sense.

The NRA went on a "drum up the paranoia" campaign when Obama was elected. There was a huge spike on gun buys after it. The message was clear: "He'll ban guns so buy more." The NRA has done more to encourage the growth of gun buying than any other group and done more to quash sensible weapons bans and restrictions. Whether you like it or not more available guns makes for more violence. States with stricter gun laws have less gun violence, it's a fact. And Alaska is #1. Why? My guess is they hunt a lot so when violence occurs they have ready access.

What??? California has stricter gun laws and is in no way less violent.


Not according to this chart. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... death-rate. California ranked 34th. New York (47th) is also rated lower. Interesting as they have many large urban areas.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:31 am

mump boy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
mump boy wrote:We don't have the need to defend ourselves because we have very few murders, because we have very few guns.

You don't have many gun crimes but you still have murders.


as i previously posted 550 in a year compared to US 16,000 !! adjusted for population that approx 6 times more murders than usm, mainly driven by guns, you have 3 times as many gun murders than we have murders in general !! *

What ever 'freedoms' this affords you glady free from them

*mump boys maths skills are not what they should be :?

Based on the stats I've seen, of 16,000 murders in the U.S., only 9000 were with guns. That's barely half, and hardly what I would describe as "mainly driven by guns". Apparently, even the non-gun murder rate in the U.S. is considerably higher than the overall murder rate in the U.K. And if guns were taken out of circulation in the U.S., it's a good bet that the non-gun murder rate would be greater than 7000 as people sought out other means to kill.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Vince » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:41 am

jeremyp wrote:
Vince wrote:
jeremyp wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote: #4 makes no sense to me. Are you saying that the NRA's media campaign is making people more trigger happy? However, I do think #1 (urbanization of America) and #2 (media violence) seem very plausible. #2 has been discussed before, but I had never thought of #1 which makes a lot of sense.

The NRA went on a "drum up the paranoia" campaign when Obama was elected. There was a huge spike on gun buys after it. The message was clear: "He'll ban guns so buy more." The NRA has done more to encourage the growth of gun buying than any other group and done more to quash sensible weapons bans and restrictions. Whether you like it or not more available guns makes for more violence. States with stricter gun laws have less gun violence, it's a fact. And Alaska is #1. Why? My guess is they hunt a lot so when violence occurs they have ready access.

What??? California has stricter gun laws and is in no way less violent.


Not according to this chart. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... death-rate. California ranked 34th. New York (47th) is also rated lower. Interesting as they have many large urban areas.


It isn't according to the U.S. census.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 2s0308.pdf
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Vince » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:46 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
mump boy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
mump boy wrote:We don't have the need to defend ourselves because we have very few murders, because we have very few guns.

You don't have many gun crimes but you still have murders.


as i previously posted 550 in a year compared to US 16,000 !! adjusted for population that approx 6 times more murders than usm, mainly driven by guns, you have 3 times as many gun murders than we have murders in general !! *

What ever 'freedoms' this affords you glady free from them

*mump boys maths skills are not what they should be :?

Based on the stats I've seen, of 16,000 murders in the U.S., only 9000 were with guns. That's barely half, and hardly what I would describe as "mainly driven by guns". Apparently, even the non-gun murder rate in the U.S. is considerably higher than the overall murder rate in the U.K. And if guns were taken out of circulation in the U.S., it's a good bet that the non-gun murder rate would be greater than 7000 as people sought out other means to kill.

It would be better to say that the US has a more murderess society, the cause of which seems to be drugs and gangs.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jeremyp » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:10 am

Vince wrote: What??? California has stricter gun laws and is in no way less violent.


Not according to this chart. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... death-rate. California ranked 34th. New York (47th) is also rated lower. Interesting as they have many large urban areas.

It isn't according to the U.S. census.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 2s0308.pdf

My chart focused on gun deaths. Yours on murder per se. Although I'm never sure if per capita surveys are useful as the larger the population the more diluted the results. It's more useful to look at Large cities across the world. I'll try to see if I can get figures.
Here's a sobering statistic from 2006-2007:
People living in 50 of the largest U.S. cities accounted for 67% of all firearm homicides, and most involved children and teens aged 10 to 19

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/16/c ... z21SUBAZ6J
Our minority children are killing off our minority children.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jeremyp » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:27 am

It is reported that a semi-automatic rifle jammed during the Aurora attack and the gunman switched to a weapon with less firepower, possibly saving some lives.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby Vince » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:37 am

jeremyp wrote:
Vince wrote: What??? California has stricter gun laws and is in no way less violent.


Not according to this chart. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/usa/ ... death-rate. California ranked 34th. New York (47th) is also rated lower. Interesting as they have many large urban areas.

It isn't according to the U.S. census.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/ ... 2s0308.pdf

My chart focused on gun deaths. Yours on murder per se. Although I'm never sure if per capita surveys are useful as the larger the population the more diluted the results. It's more useful to look at Large cities across the world. I'll try to see if I can get figures.
Here's a sobering statistic from 2006-2007:
People living in 50 of the largest U.S. cities accounted for 67% of all firearm homicides, and most involved children and teens aged 10 to 19

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2011/05/16/c ... z21SUBAZ6J
Our minority children are killing off our minority children.

The US also has a 3100 km border with a 3rd world country. My friend, a larger statistical population increases accuracy, but also comparing apples to apples is more accurate.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby jeremyp » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:22 am

Vince wrote: The US also has a 3100 km border with a 3rd world country. My friend, a larger statistical population increases accuracy, but also comparing apples to apples is more accurate.
As to larger statistical populations and accuracy there is the issue of large states being large due to large cities and gun violence increases in urban areas and especially inner cities. So comparing Alaska to California on a per capita basis doesn't necessarily tell an accurate picture. While we deplore the mass shootings that seem to often be non minority on non minority the media largely ignores the daily inner city killings that probably exceed the Aurora shooting by 2x.
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Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Postby JRM » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:49 am

Vince wrote:
JRM wrote: Exactly what kind of ingenious weapon do you think a neuroscience Ph.D. student going to come up with?


A match, balloons filled with oil/gas, a blocked exit in a crowded theater.


How heavy do you think the balloons would be in order to have enough gas to have a significant impact (besides setting off panic)? Also, as I mentioned before, after the first balloon or two are lobbed, people will react: some will say "Stop it!", some will flee, and some are quite likely to storm him (because he doesn't present a bodily threat if he's just throwing balloons).

Vince wrote:
JRM wrote:I see. You were quoting random statistics for fun. No problem, then.


PS: Look up the meaning of perspective.


Please explain what "perspective" you were trying to demonstrate, because it's unclear to me. And also, what do motor vehicle-related deaths and suicides have to do with gun-related murders?

By the way, would you mind doing one more bit of research: can you find the number of murders by gasoline-filled-balloon dousing that occur in the US each year? That would provide some additional perspective for us.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby rsb2 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:03 am

@ JRM
Stop talking like a crazy Canadian, eh !
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Bijan » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:29 pm

I have a friend who moved to Centennial, Col. circa 2008, who was in the theatre when the mayhem occurred. She's interviewed in an online podcast for local radio:

under "Podcast:

http://www.95sx.com/

Legislators will do no more to ban or restrict (non-hunting) firearms from easy access and street use, than they did when their fellow lawmakers and staff JFK, RFK, Presidents Ford and Reagan, James Brady, and Rep. Gabi Gifford were victim to them.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:34 pm

Well, here's some depressing news for gun-control advocates courtesy a Gallup poll just referenced on MSNBC's Hardball.. According to this poll, attitudes of Americans have steadily become more pro-gun and less pro-gun control over the last 20 years, and young people today are more pro-gun than their parents and grandparents. On just about every other major issue (eg. gay rights, race, healthcare, drugs, etc .), liberals are winning the hearts and minds of young people, but on the issue of guns, it is the NRA that is winning the hearts and minds of young people. Perhaps this is why American politicians are loathe to touch the third rail of gun control.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Daisy » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:52 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:it is the NRA that is winning the hearts and minds of young people.

No doubt, they have a well coordinated campaign. Look how well Joe Camel did for cancer sticks.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby JRM » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:18 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Well, here's some depressing news for gun-control advocates courtesy a Gallup poll just referenced on MSNBC's Hardball..


I would say that's depressing news for American society, but what do I know -- I'm just a crazy Canadian.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby JRM » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:24 pm

Meanwhile, in another part of the country... The next worst thing about mass shootings is the copy-cat mentality.

====
... A trooper stopped Timothy Courtois, 49, for doing 112 mph on the Maine Turnpike Sunday morning, police said. Motorists had reported seeing a speeding Mustang with its flashers on.

Upon pulling him over, police found an assault rifle, four handguns and several boxes of ammunition, they said. Also found inside his car were recent news clippings of the mass shooting at the Colorado movie theater, police said.

Police said Courtois then admitted to police he had attended the Batman movie at the Cinemagic Theater in Saco Saturday night with a loaded gun in his backpack. He also told authorities that he was on his way to Derry, N.H. to shoot a former employer.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/local/Police-M ... z21TXt4aKl
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:30 am

Daisy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:it is the NRA that is winning the hearts and minds of young people.

No doubt, they have a well coordinated campaign. Look how well Joe Camel did for cancer sticks.

One observation that someone made yesterday is that the NRA isn't winning over all these young people by themselves, rather they are getting a lot of help from the video game industry and Hollywood's action movie industry.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Daisy » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:43 am

jazzcyclist wrote:they are getting a lot of help from the video game industry and Hollywood's action movie industry.

I can buy that argument. Similar to teens weaving in and out of traffic too. It's become habit.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby guru » Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:19 pm

Very cool to see that Christian Bale has been in Colorado visiting the victims - privately and with no media notice(news got out when victim posted photo)

http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/24/christian ... -colorado/
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:06 pm

Congressman Carolyn McCarthy, a.k.a. "The Gun Lady", wants Obama to ban guns by executive order. Eveidently, she had the same civics teacher as Sarah Palin if she thinks a President can use executives order to repeal constitutional amendments, but even an attempt to do such a thing would be the greatest gift he could give Romney.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/2 ... tions-2012
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jeremyp » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:17 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Congressman Carolyn McCarthy, a.k.a. "The Gun Lady", wants Obama to ban guns by executive order. Eveidently, she had the same civics teacher as Sarah Palin if she thinks a President can use executives order to repeal constitutional amendments, but even an attempt to do such a thing would be the greatest gift he could give Romney.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/2 ... tions-2012


Which is why it was so idiotic and ignorant of the masses to rush out and buy guns because the NRA said Obama would ban guns. They (the NRA) knew he couldn't; the arms industry knew he couldn't; but the sheeple bought it hook line and sinker. More billions for the gun folks.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:41 pm

jeremyp wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Congressman Carolyn McCarthy, a.k.a. "The Gun Lady", wants Obama to ban guns by executive order. Eveidently, she had the same civics teacher as Sarah Palin if she thinks a President can use executives order to repeal constitutional amendments, but even an attempt to do such a thing would be the greatest gift he could give Romney.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/2 ... tions-2012


Which is why it was so idiotic and ignorant of the masses to rush out and buy guns because the NRA said Obama would ban guns. They (the NRA) knew he couldn't; the arms industry knew he couldn't; but the sheeple bought it hook line and sinker. More billions for the gun folks.

Perhaps she's getting money under the table from the NRA to say carzy stuff like this.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Bijan » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:13 am

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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jeremyp » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:22 pm

Bijan wrote:Alleged Aurora shooter no whiz kid:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/sto ... 56467518/1

Which makes one wonder who they are allowing in to the program? The fact that he was mediocre and struggled may indicate a motive. Failure attempting notoriety.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:13 pm

jeremyp wrote:
Bijan wrote:Alleged Aurora shooter no whiz kid:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/sto ... 56467518/1

Which makes one wonder who they are allowing in to the program? The fact that he was mediocre and struggled may indicate a motive. Failure attempting notoriety.


I guess so, but the guy is a nutter no matter what. School is not going well, geez I think I will spend thousands of dollars on guns and ammo. He should have spent more time on his studies and less time, and money, on planning a massacre.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jeremyp » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:23 am

Conor Dary wrote:
jeremyp wrote:
Bijan wrote:Alleged Aurora shooter no whiz kid:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/sto ... 56467518/1

Which makes one wonder who they are allowing in to the program? The fact that he was mediocre and struggled may indicate a motive. Failure attempting notoriety.


I guess so, but the guy is a nutter no matter what. School is not going well, geez I think I will spend thousands of dollars on guns and ammo. He should have spent more time on his studies and less time, and money, on planning a massacre.

Most of these shooters are either insane or have deeply rooted inferiority complexes, or both. The most dangerous human in society is not the nutter but the depressed/suicidal individual who wants to take out others (projecting his own hatred of their "normalcy") before killing himself. The number of men taking out their families, and then killing themselves, is astounding.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Daisy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:28 am

jeremyp wrote:Which makes one wonder who they are allowing in to the program?


The best in the lab are not always the ones with the high GPA. Sounds like they took a risk on a student that appeared to be motivated. Obviously they realised their mistake and were about to ask him to leave. That normally means writing a thesis towards a masters or, in his case, withdrawing from the program.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby mump boy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:06 am

jeremyp wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:
jeremyp wrote:
Bijan wrote:Alleged Aurora shooter no whiz kid:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/sto ... 56467518/1

Which makes one wonder who they are allowing in to the program? The fact that he was mediocre and struggled may indicate a motive. Failure attempting notoriety.


I guess so, but the guy is a nutter no matter what. School is not going well, geez I think I will spend thousands of dollars on guns and ammo. He should have spent more time on his studies and less time, and money, on planning a massacre.

Most of these shooters are either insane or have deeply rooted inferiority complexes, or both. The most dangerous human in society is not the nutter but the depressed/suicidal individual who wants to take out others (projecting his own hatred of their "normalcy") before killing himself. The number of men taking out their families, and then killing themselves, is astounding.


Thank god he's got the freedom to buy guns and make his dream come true :D
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Daisy » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:24 am

I heard this quote from Romney, about the Colorado gunmen, this morning.
Well this person shouldn't have had any kind of weapons and bombs and other devices and it was illegal for him to have many of those things already. But he had them. And so we can sometimes hope that just changing the law will make all bad things go away. It won't.

Has he moved the bar on gun control? What illegal 'things' was Romney referring to?
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:30 am

Daisy wrote:I heard this quote from Romney, about the Colorado gunmen, this morning.
Well this person shouldn't have had any kind of weapons and bombs and other devices and it was illegal for him to have many of those things already. But he had them. And so we can sometimes hope that just changing the law will make all bad things go away. It won't.

Has he moved the bar on gun control? What illegal 'things' was Romney referring to?


Who knows?

    Despite Mitt Romney’s Claims, Aurora Suspect’s Gun Purchases Were Legal

    Mitt Romney brushed off suggestions that the Aurora, Colo. theater shooting should renew a national conversation on gun control Wednesday, saying that it “was illegal” for accused Aurora shooter James Holmes to have the “kind of weapons and bombs and other devices” he used in his deadly attack.

    Not exactly. Holmes legally purchased the weapons used in the attack, and legally bought thousands of rounds of ammunition online. One of the guns would have been illegal under the federal assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... gun_pu.php
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:38 am

I think European-style gun laws would reduce spontaneous gun murders (eg. crimes of passion, bar room brawls, etc.), IF you could get guns out of circulation, but they wouldn't stop determined nutjobs who are willing to put a lot of time and thought into carrying their acts. They might effect what weapons the nutjob uses, but that's about it.
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Re: Very Ugly Gun Thread

Postby jeremyp » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:54 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I think European-style gun laws would reduce spontaneous gun murders (eg. crimes of passion, bar room brawls, etc.), IF you could get guns out of circulation, but they wouldn't stop determined nutjobs who are willing to put a lot of time and thought into carrying their acts. They might effect what weapons the nutjob uses, but that's about it.

And Norway was a case in point. I believe he got his weapons through the internet.
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