A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (Locked down several times a year during the major championships)
Kratschmer was beaten by Thompson in their only meeting in 1980, when Daley set his first world record, and of any decathlete in history Daley Thompson was the supreme competitor. I can't see Kratschmer beating him for gold.
Re the Kardashians, I think Saturday Night Live summed them up pretty succintly by having the Mother say "Kim didn't just get married for $17 million dollars. She did it for attention as well", and Kim wail “All week we’ve been just crying and crying and posing and crying and getting our anuses bleached.”
Or straight to the point - Daniel Craig saying they're "xxxxing idiots".
I think most kids would find Bruce Jenner cool at Halloween and hugely embarrassing at any other time. Not that it would stop Kris pimping them on TV.
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.
The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.
The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.
Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful. Related to this, we might ask what are some events where Jenner today would score higher, I think 110H (+100) is one event where Jenner has great room to improve simply with training gains. Other events where Jenner would move up marginally are 100(+50), LJ(+50), SP(+50), and HJ(+50), PV(+100). Could Jenner be one of those guys that could compete at the elite level at both PV and Deca, I think so.
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.
The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.
Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton ........
Double edged sword - See the current view topic for Adam Nelson in the current forum. More stringent PED testinging for current performers. Even testing for the "recent" past.
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.
The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.
Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton ........
Double edged sword - See the current view topic for Adam Nelson in the current forum. More stringent PED testinging for current performers. Even testing for the "recent" past.
I wasnt even thinking of PEDs. One simply has to look at the financial package/sponsorship level of the athletes. This provides an unimagined (in 1972-76, Oldfield aside!) level of focus and time. Then there is the superior information (of 2012 v 1976) on training for the various events which could be an even greater advantage than any salary. Of course PEDs and PED testing has improved for all athletes in all events and yet the WRs continue to advance, in some cases (100M, 200M) dramatically.
Last edited by user4 on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Let us not forget one thing about testing--the paramount consideration--one can only test for what one is looking for. So if you don't know what you are looking for, you ain't gonna find it!
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.
The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.
Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful.....
Time for a gut check
Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)
user4 wrote:Jenner , properly trained would be in the mix today as an elite decathlete. He was an 8600 athlete at a time when training was still more of an amateur self styled art. It was a totally different era, more like the 1950s than the 1990s.
The reality is in that in the last year or so before Montréal Jenner was able to train very much like a modern pro athlete.
Even assuming that, today men train in such a focused and expert manner for almost a decade to reach their best. Did Jenner in 1975-1976 have the advantages and methods that a Hardee or Eaton presently have? my gut tells me this is doubtful.....
Time for a gut check
Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)
He had a long preparation period, and as I said previously, in the runup to Montréal, had a regimen very close to today's. I was there.
The 1976 Olympics were the first Olympics I ever watched (I was 8 years old). Bruce Jenner was hyped quite a bit. The narrative being hyped was that Jenner had been training "full time" and preparing to win the gold medal for eight years. That always stuck with me.
4:24-miler wrote:The narrative being hyped was that Jenner had been training "full time" and preparing to win the gold medal for eight years. That always stuck with me.
Eight years is a stretch: he only graduated from high school in the spring of 1968. Probably more true that he spent a solid 5 years training for the gold, with the 4 years between Munich and Montreal being truly key. GH is totally correct: Jenner did have the luxury of training full-time--very close in opportunity and attitude to today's best.
Here's the ages of history's top 10 scorers in the year in which they got their PR (end-of-year age, some could have been younger when mark was actually made)
He had a long preparation period, and as I said previously, in the runup to Montréal, had a regimen very close to today's. I was there.
That is not a gut check, that is a well placed flamingo kick! ... those points are well taken and remove any disagreement regarding the prime age for PRs in the decathlon, it is the late 20s. But just to focus a bit, the point was that Jenner could go over 8800 if he were competing today. Much of the progress in WRs since Jenner are due to the luxuries the modern athlete is afforded. 5 years of the state of the art training and coaching makes a real difference. Conversely, take anyone of those athletes from the above list, give him the career trajectory of Jenner 1970-1976 and ask does he reach the same PR ? .. My guess is that most of them falls somewhere in the 8600 range. OK, maybe Eaton goes 8800 even by those standards. He is a very rare talent.
gh wrote:Bruce had more than one procedure on his face. When his name was still attached to the Bruce Jenner classic in the years after Montréal I use to meet with him annually, and the changes were ongoing.
Ah, the Jenner Classic. Walking distance from my house. Still have the snapshots of Lewis, Ben J., Glance, Calvin Smith and Baptiste lining up 5 yards away ... *sigh*
berkeley wrote:Ah, the Jenner Classic. Walking distance from my house. Still have the snapshots of Lewis, Ben J., Glance, Calvin Smith and Baptiste lining up 5 yards away ... *sigh*
Oh yeah, a must-see meet for this area. Loved it, was sad to see it go.
gh wrote:Bruce had more than one procedure on his face. When his name was still attached to the Bruce Jenner classic in the years after Montréal I use to meet with him annually, and the changes were ongoing.
Ah, the Jenner Classic. Walking distance from my house. Still have the snapshots of Lewis, Ben J., Glance, Calvin Smith and Baptiste lining up 5 yards away ... *sigh*
At the 1984 Jenner Classic I got autographs from Edwin Moses and O.J. Simpson, and Wilt Chamberlain walked right by me in the stand. Oh, and I watched Al Orter walk around the field with a discus in his hand. That was pretty heady stuff for a young 15 year old.
Rog wrote:Re the Kardashians, I think Saturday Night Live summed them up pretty succintly by having the Mother say "Kim didn't just get married for $17 million dollars. She did it for attention as well", and Kim wail “All week we’ve been just crying and crying and posing and crying and getting our anuses bleached.”
Or straight to the point - Daniel Craig saying they're "xxxxing idiots".
I think most kids would find Bruce Jenner cool at Halloween and hugely embarrassing at any other time. Not that it would stop Kris pimping them on TV.
Marlow wrote:I can get as real or as phony as they need me to be! For $175 MILLION, I bet I can compromise ALL my principles!!
Most of us would. Back in the 90s in North Carolina, Billy Packer, the basketball announcer, did some terrible commercials for a company called Mr Cash that gave money in exchange for mortgage liens. A terrible idea and he was roasted about it. I heard he gave a talk once to discuss it and said, "Listen - we all have a price. They met my price." May not excuse it but he's likely right.
Old joke - guy in a bar says to beautiful woman, "Would you make love to me for $1 million dollars?" She thinks for a second and says, "Yes, for a million dollars, I'd do that." He then says, "How about $5?" Her reply, "No way. What do you think I am?" His answer, "I've already established that. Now I'm just haggling over the price."
