NFL Combine


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Re: NFL Combine

Postby batonless relay » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:34 pm

You're resting your hat on an extremely flawed timing process (Witness steve Williams of Cal getting robbed by that timing system). Goodwin ran 4.27; that makes him as good as Johnson (something the other 8 athletes under 4.30 could argue).

I acknowledge that bolt is not a great starter and you should acknowledge that i said berlin or london where he was otherworldly. Average bolt *could* be beaten by any of the sub-4.30 guys, the berlin or london bolt never would be. My opinion is that you would lose that bet 98 times out of 100. that's irrational for a good gambler but it would make sense for a poor one.

(If I'm going off of *potential* then I don't take Johnson at 180 with a year of a sprint coach, i take Johnson at 195 with a year of a sprint coach. Only that Johnson's name would be Calvin.) If all you saw was a 6'5" guy dunk than you probably shouldn't be wondering if Johnson can beat Bolt because you don't understand athletic ability. You say it would be interesting, and that's your opinion, but I believe it would be all hype and not worth the price of admission.

I used wikipedia combine results (I acknowledge they may be inaccurate). Now look at the 10yd list and the 40 yard list. Nearly all of the guys on the 40 yard list don't make the 10 yard list except Johnson and a few others. that means that if we could dartfish those other sub-4.30's not named Johnson that we would see them all maintaining the initial distance on Johnson or *closing* on Johnson. And this is they guy you think can beat bolt? :?

40 yd
4.24 Chris Johnson 5 ft 11 in, 197 lb 2008
4.25 Darrius Heyward-Bey[6] 6 ft 2 in, 210 lb (95 kg) 2009
4.27 Stanford Routt 6 ft 2 in, 193 lb (88 kg) 2005
4.27 Marquise Goodwin 5 ft 9 in, 170 lb (77 kg) 2013
4.28 DeMarcus Van Dyke 6 ft 1 in, 176 lb (80 kg) 2011
4.28 Champ Bailey 6 ft 0 in, 184 lb (83 kg) 1999
4.28 Jerome Mathis 5 ft 11 in, 181 lb (82 kg) 2005
4.28 Carl Vogel 6 ft 0 in, 195 lb (88 kg) 2013
4.28 Jacoby Ford 5 ft 8 in, 190 lb (86 kg) 2010
4.29 Josh Robinson 5 ft 11 in, 200 lb (91 kg) 2012
4.29 Trindon Holliday 5 ft 5 in, 155 lb (70 kg) 2010
4.29 Fabian Washington 5 ft 11 in, 188 lb (85 kg) 2005
4.29 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 6 ft 2 in, 184 lb (83 kg) 2008
4.30 Yamon Figurs 5 ft 11 in, 174 lb (79 kg) 2007
4.30 Darrent Williams 5 ft 9 in, 176 lb (80 kg) 2005
4.30 Tye Hill 5 ft 10 in, 185 lb (84 kg) 2006

10 yd
=1 1.40 Peerman, Cedric 2009
=1 1.40 Johnson, Chris 2008
=1 1.40 King, Justin 2008
4 1.41 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 2008
=5 1.43 Wallace, Mike 2009
=5 1.43 Aundrae Allison 2007
=5 1.43 Eric Weddle 2007
=5 1.43 Marcus McCauley 2007
=5 1.43 Branch, Tyvon 2008
=5 1.43 Franklin, Will 2008
=5 1.43 Wilhite, Jonathan 2008
=5 1.43 McKelvin, Leodis 2008
=5 1.43 Molden, Antwaun 2008
=5 1.43 Demps, Quintin 2008
=5 1.43 Walker, Marcus 2008
=5 1.43 Zenon, Jonathan 2008
=5 1.43 Morgan, DaJuan 2008
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Re: NFL Combine

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:08 pm

batonless relay wrote:You're resting your hat on an extremely flawed timing process

The current system may be flawed, but I wouldn't call it extremely flawed. The old system was extremely flawed. But I must also point out that even the IAAF's timing system is flawed whenever the meet is held at an outdoor stadium. At least with the combine, the wind and elevation are identical from year to year.
batonless relay wrote:(Witness steve Williams of Cal getting robbed by that timing system).

I have no idea what or who you're talking about.
batonless relay wrote:Goodwin ran 4.27; that makes him as good as Johnson (something the other 8 athletes under 4.30 could argue).

Now you're lawyering the facts. Saying that 4.27 is as good as 4.24 at 40 yards is like saying that 10.00 us as good as 9.90 at 100 meters. Also, there have only been three other athletes under 4.30, not eight.
batonless relay wrote:I acknowledge that bolt is not a great starter and you should acknowledge that i said berlin or london where he was otherworldly. Average bolt *could* be beaten by any of the sub-4.30 guys, the berlin or london bolt never would be. My opinion is that you would lose that bet 98 times out of 100. that's irrational for a good gambler but it would make sense for a poor one.

This is just idle specualtion and conjecture. Let's stick to facts.
batonless relay wrote:(If I'm going off of *potential* then I don't take Johnson at 180 with a year of a sprint coach, i take Johnson at 195 with a year of a sprint coach. Only that Johnson's name would be Calvin.) If all you saw was a 6'5" guy dunk than you probably shouldn't be wondering if Johnson can beat Bolt because you don't understand athletic ability.

After reading your previous posts, I'm confident that I have a much better grasp of athletic ability than you do.
batonless relay wrote:You say it would be interesting, and that's your opinion, but I believe it would be all hype and not worth the price of admission.

:roll:
batonless relay wrote:I used wikipedia combine results (I acknowledge they may be inaccurate).

Then why are you quoting a source that you know is questionable? Why don't you quote nfl.com's official combine results?
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Re: NFL Combine

Postby batonless relay » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:52 pm

the system is extremely flawed. full stop. Even rich eisen and Deion sanders commented on how off the times were. If you didn't see what happened to steve williams then you shouldn't defend the system as merely flawed; in some cases they felt the system was completely wrong.

I'm not lawyering facts (whatever that means), I'm saying that in a completely flawed system that .03 difference is inconsequential. it means that there is virutally no difference between the two players and that either would have an "equal" chance competing against Bolt and it equals no chance. I provided a list of the athletes already; it has been more than 3.

fanboy speculation is what you have posted by surmising that Johnson has a chance. I bet you play lots of fantasy sports; we're talking real world that's why you can't make the proper projections. You have absolutely nothing to back up the fact that Johnson would even be close to bolt. No track times, no 10m or 10 yd break downs, no unofficial race, absolutely nothing that says that Johnson is anything better than all the other guys who have run under 4.30 in an extremely flawed system. You don't even have any information that suggests that johnson could beat Gay, Powell, Gatlin, Bailey, Bailey, Blake or even Lemaitre. Stick to facts? stick to football players, those are his peers not top-10 100m sprinters.


As for your belief that the timing system isn't flawed.
1.Each participant is given 2 attempts at the 40 yard dash and is timed with 3 different stopwatches on each run, however only one of those stopwatches is “electronic.”
2.The electronic timing is not fully electronic. The stopwatch is started by a human, and it is important to understand that it is started by human hands on the first movement of the 40 yard dash participant. That means that there is always room for human error, though less than if it were fully hand-timed.
3.Since each player runs the 40 twice, there would be no single “official” time even if only the electronic times are used.
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Re: NFL Combine

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:43 pm

Batonless relay, I just realized how few posts you have. It's pretty obvious that you're a poster who has banned from the board before for reasons that are self-evident based on the few posts of yours that I've read. Life is too short to get into a silly pissing contest with you, so you're going to have to find someone else to troll. And FYI, I've never played fantasy sports in my life.
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Re: NFL Combine

Postby kuha » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:50 pm

How many death sentences are needed to kill the vermin here?
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Re: NFL Combine

Postby batonless relay » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:29 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Batonless relay, I just realized how few posts you have. It's pretty obvious that you're a poster who has banned from the board before for reasons that are self-evident based on the few posts of yours that I've read. Life is too short to get into a silly pissing contest with you, so you're going to have to find someone else to troll. And FYI, I've never played fantasy sports in my life.

No pissing match despite your accusations of lawyering facts or false equivalencies of comparing the IAAF timing with nfl. I just don't agree with you.
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Re: NFL Combine

Postby sprintzfan » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:04 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dutra5 wrote:What's interesting about the combine is how much we think it changes anything. We have no idea if it changes anything or not.

At a football camp last summer I listened in on a conversation between two current NFL QBs discussing the combine with a player just coming out of college. The two current NFL players were at opposite ends of the spectrum with one being an extremely high choice and the other not drafted. Both players felt that the combine really didn't mean a whole lot to the vast majority of players and that it was the media that gave their readers, listeners, etc. the impression that the performance was changing anything.

I haven't seen any players who were off the radar screen skyrocket to the 1st round based on their performance at the combine, but I have seen many projected 1st rounders take a free fall based on a poor performance, bad interview/pshycological evaluation or flunked drug test at the combine.



There was this defensive player in the 90s, Mike Mamula (sp?) who I think the Eagles drafted, who I most often hear cited as the prime example of a how a guy can make himself a high draft pick, by little more than an exceptional combine performance.

My sense is Mamula skyrocketed up the draft list after the combine. Can't recall whether he went in the first round or not though.



p.s. Geez! Didn't realize I just responded to a YEAR OLD post until a moment ago. lol Just noticed the year of jazz's post.

I'll shut up and just read now until I get the recent stuff. :wink:
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Re: NFL Combine

Postby sprintzfan » Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:28 pm

jazzcyclist wrote: ...And FYI, I've never played fantasy sports in my life.


You're missing out jazz! :)

Lots of fun in my personal opinion.
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