Penn State/State Pen [split]

[Dutra]

Summation to this point with some new points of interest.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/sport ... =4&_r=2&hp

[26mi235]

Thanks, Dutra; worth reading to get a sense of the unfolding of things.

[KevinM]

Another good piece:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/m ... =cf_t11_a7

[Conor Dary]

Good piece. Penn State is sure one screwed up place...

'Sandusky kept his office at Penn State and continued to have full access to the football facilities. The lone result of the 2002 incident -- a decision approved by Spanier -- is that Sandusky was prohibited from bringing children on campus. Don't do it here. Among all the graphic and horrifying detail in the grand jury testimony, this point is perhaps most damming.

Sandusky's alleged activity continued. It just moved elsewhere. The only two victims in the grand jury report whose identities remain unknown -- whom authorities couldn't contact -- were the ones assaulted on the Penn State campus. Had Sandusky not been so brazen in Mill Hall, had he simply restricted himself to the football facilities in State College, there is little to suggest he would have been caught. For Sandusky -- if not for the boys -- Penn State football was a safe haven.'

[SQUACKEE]

It probably wont matter because there will most likely be many victims and eyewitnesses coming forward, but If Mcqueary lied when he said he went to the police, the defenses attorney will eat him alive when he testifies,i.e.- he is a liar, we can't believe a word he says.

[KevinM]

At this point I’m most interested in this case not to see a rapist punished (though that is certainly a good thing), or to see more and more folks take a fall at PSU (though that may also be justified), but as a way to further expose the ridiculous power and institutional hypocrisy that is part and parcel with college sports at almost all levels.

The big question, of course, is how to make effective changes when the ruling body (NCAA) is governed by university presidents whose jobs, because of irrational alumni giving and use of influence, are often as tied to the success of the football and basketball teams as the coaches and athletic directors.

[Conor Dary]

It probably wont matter because there will most likely be many victims and eyewitnesses coming forward, but If Mcqueary lied when he said he went to the police, the defenses attorney will eat him alive when he testifies,i.e.- he is a liar, we can't believe a word he says.

Perhaps. But there is a difference between testifying under oath and sending out a spurious email.

[26mi235]

My guess is that he had discussions with the police and they did not file anything formally -- possibly (probably?) because their boss said not to, that they would handle Sandusky and had already banned him from bring kids on campus. It is the easiest scenario that fits the 'facts' cited in the report and consistent with the statements of people deemed 'credible' by the Grand Jury.

[Conor Dary]

My guess is that he had discussions with the police and they did not file anything formally -- possibly (probably?) because their boss said not to, that they would handle Sandusky and had already banned him from bring kids on campus. It is the easiest scenario that fits the 'facts' cited in the report and consistent with the statements of people deemed 'credible' by the Grand Jury.

There is like zero evidence McQ talked to any police. Nothing in the grand jury report which doesn't seem likely if true. Why hide that fact? Having some cop as a fall guy seems more like PS's mo.

[Dutra]

My guess is that he had discussions with the police and they did not file anything formally -- possibly (probably?) because their boss said not to, that they would handle Sandusky and had already banned him from bring kids on campus. It is the easiest scenario that fits the 'facts' cited in the report and consistent with the statements of people deemed 'credible' by the Grand Jury.

There is like zero evidence McQ talked to any police. Nothing in the grand jury report which doesn't seem likely if true. Why hide that fact? Having some cop as a fall guy seems more like PS's mo.

I still think McQueary is referring to Gary Schultz...the VP of finance and business who was also the head of Campus Police....when he mentions that he had "discussions" with the police. Those "discussions" occurred 10 days after the fact. Technically he's correct and he's in no danger of taking anyone else down because Schultz is already on the hot seat for what he didn't do.

[26mi235]

The Grand Jury is not citing all of the evidence. They talked with McQueary under oath. They find his testimony credible and that of those charged (e.g., the VP/head of Campus Police) not credible. Given that assessment do you think that it is unlikely that McQueary talked with police but it did not end up as a formal complaint still in the system, possibly quashed by the VP (Schultz)?

Note that several years of records from the Second Mile are missing starting from after the first reported/recorded incident (about 2000-2003, although at least part of one year was found misfiled).

I am amazed that people cite things like 'no evidence' that he filed anything when there are parties involved that might have had reasons not to have everything filed? It is one thing to note that there are pieces that might not fit from what we have heard. It is another to make a major statement drawing conclusions from a deliberately incomplete record that was not even supposed to be released publicly at this point.

The only individual that has had things look better for him as we got a bit more is McQueary and he has been treated in a significantly different manner in that presentment. Since that presentment is a small subset of the available evidence and testimony that they have, why not try to base your speculations on things consistent with that piece of 'evidence'?

[gh]

With over a billion members, the Catholic Church is a awfully big to be a cult.

All churches are cults, period. But that might be a topic for another thread.

I was under the impression this sort of name calling and bashing of major organized religions was not allowed on this forum. But apparently GH does not give a rats.

I "don't give a rats" largely because I tuned out of this thread ages ago. If I saw this in passing, I thought little of it, and in looking at it now, I think little of it. What was stated is completely true, and the conversation didn't wander off into an ugly space.

I realize that "cult" is a word that is frequently used with sinister overtones, but the primary meanings have everything to do with religion and/or being totally devoted to some movement. Heck, if the people who participate here (myself prime among them) aren't a cult, I don't know what is. And I'm proud to belong.

[Avante]

No way I read all that so....

Penn State was right in firing Paterno, where they were wrong was playing a football game. They should have forfeited the Nebraska game, instead they sent the message..."no matter what we play football". Yes I know..."you don't punish those innocent players"....in this situation you don't see it as punishment, you see it as lack of needing to win a football game. Lives were altered due to what happened at Penn State. To think a football game is approriate right after learning of that horrendous situation....wrong! Too bad some college kids will miss a football game over this This isn't about them it's about the victims.

I can see ending the season "after" Nebraska. No need to totally dump the football program for 2011. I do think a bowl game is out of the question, not that any bowl would want them considering the situation.

I do think Sandusky is guilty of everything and not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Life in prison...very cool~~~~~

[guru]

I do think a bowl game is out of the question, not that any bowl would want them considering the situation.

I guarantee you folks in Pasadena(not to mention the Big 10 home office)are rooting hard for Wisconsin next week.

[26mi235]

I do think a bowl game is out of the question, not that any bowl would want them considering the situation.

I guarantee you folks in Pasadena(not to mention the Big 10 home office)are rooting hard for Wisconsin next week.

Want to add Madison to that list?

Two last-minute losses, and still the chance to salvage the season with a Rose Bowl win requiring four more straight wins.

[donley2]

With over a billion members, the Catholic Church is a awfully big to be a cult.

All churches are cults, period. But that might be a topic for another thread.

I was under the impression this sort of name calling and bashing of major organized religions was not allowed on this forum. But apparently GH does not give a rats.

I "don't give a rats" largely because I tuned out of this thread ages ago. If I saw this in passing, I thought little of it, and in looking at it now, I think little of it. What was stated is completely true, and the conversation didn't wander off into an ugly space.

I realize that "cult" is a word that is frequently used with sinister overtones, but the primary meanings have everything to do with religion and/or being totally devoted to some movement. Heck, if the people who participate here (myself prime among them) aren't a cult, I don't know what is. And I'm proud to belong.

I have no reason to get stuck on this issue, but actually do appreciate the fact you responded with your thought process.

[Avante]

I do think a bowl game is out of the question, not that any bowl would want them considering the situation.

I guarantee you folks in Pasadena(not to mention the Big 10 home office)are rooting hard for Wisconsin next week.

I hear that. Right now it's the big story and should be. A sad and terrible deal. However, by the time of the Rose Bowl those not really close to the situation will be tired of it. Put Penn State there and here it comes again. The media thrives on that stuff. The football world wants things to be fun.

[guru]

In the when it rains, it pours department...

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/45360259/ ... _football/

[gh]

The VP of student affairs (former) chimes in with some unflattering stuff in a long USA Today piece. This about a campus brawl:

<<.."The coach was literally telling his players that they couldn't cooperate with judicial affairs or they would get kicked off the team. So we were going nowhere in getting to the bottom of things," Triponey said. "I said to the coach, 'This would be so much easier if you would tell your players just to tell the truth.'

"He was livid, and the message to me was, 'I can't do that. They have to play for me and I can't ask them to rat on each other.' The president also chimed in and said, 'Vicky, the coach is right. We can't expect the players to tell the truth.' So that's the environment that was underlying this whole debate about who's in charge."...>>



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ ... 51346682/1

[gh]

The first (of how many?) lawsuits has been filed.

http://jezebel.com/5863933/sandusky-law ... n-30-years

[gh]

Sandusky's attorney is mounting a brilliant defense: after he's convicted he can have Sandusky claim he had an idiot for a lawyer!

http://blog.sfgate.com/hottopics/2011/12/13/sandusky’s-lawyer-gives-phone-number-for-gay-sex-line/?tsp=1

[Daisy]

Amendola announced that anyone who believes that Sandusky is a child molester should call “1-800-REALITY.” The folks at Deadspin did, and this is what they discovered:

1-800-REALITY is a gay sex line that offers “the hottest place for triple-x action … Just 99 cents per minute.”

Reality is a bitch.

[jazzcyclist]

Sandusky's attorney is mounting a brilliant defense: after he's convicted he can have Sandusky claim he had an idiot for a lawyer!

http://blog.sfgate.com/hottopics/2011/12/13/sandusky’s-lawyer-gives-phone-number-for-gay-sex-line/?tsp=1

Come on man. You're making this up.

[Marlow]

I'm afraid that as this drags out, we're going to get some very bizarre statements from the defense. I feel sorry for any jurors whose intelligence is going to be insulted on a daily basis.

[Pego]

I'm afraid that as this drags out, we're going to get some very bizarre statements from the defense. I feel sorry for any jurors whose intelligence is going to be insulted on a daily basis.

I cannot wait for the "expert" testimony for the defense. That ought to be good.

[guru]

Paterno reportedly near death.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2012 ... /120121013

[jazzcyclist]

Paterno reportedly near death.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2012 ... /120121013

What a sad way to go out. Based on what he said in his recent interview with Sally Jenkins, it seems that when he found out about what Sandusky was doing, the moment was just too nig for him.

How Sandusky, 67, allegedly evaded detection by state child services, university administrators, teachers, parents, donors and Paterno himself remains an open question. “I wish I knew,” Paterno said. “I don’t know the answer to that. It’s hard.” Almost as difficult for Paterno to answer is the question of why, after receiving a report in 2002 that Sandusky had abused a boy in the shower of Penn State’s Lasch Football Building, and forwarding it to his superiors, he didn’t follow up more aggressively.

“I didn’t know exactly how to handle it and I was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the university procedure was,” he said. “So I backed away and turned it over to some other people, people I thought would have a little more expertise than I did. It didn’t work out that way.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/co ... story.html

Here's a man who was one of the most powerful men in the state of Pennsylvania, and at the moment of truth, he didn't have the moral courage to wield it.

[gh]

aha! a new defense! (you knew the lawyers would find some interesting way to go)

<<...Judge John Cleland granted a motion that sought to put evidence of "histrionic personality disorder" before jurors in Sandusky's child sexual abuse case...>

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z1xtiDwdZm

[SQUACKEE]

aha! a new defense! (you knew the lawyers would find some interesting way to go)

<<...Judge John Cleland granted a motion that sought to put evidence of "histrionic personality disorder" before jurors in Sandusky's child sexual abuse case...>

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z1xtiDwdZm

We all already know the guy is sick, they can call it whatever they want. But he is not insane-Sandusky knew what he was doing was wrong becuase he went to great lenghts to hide it.

[lonewolf]

This is not an excuse or explanation. If a "histrionic personality disorder" causes someone to commit the alleged crimes that someone should be permanently removed from polite society.

[Pego]

For what it is worth, I have seen hundreds (perhaps thousands) histrionic patients, none of them was a rapist. They flirt and tease, they do not rape. Sandusky's lawyers must be desperate to even try this strategy.

[DrJay]

Guilty almost across the board. Life in the big house for him.

[Conor Dary]

Guilty, guilty, guilty....That didn't take long.

[odelltrclan]

Guilty, guilty, guilty....That didn't take long.

Nor should it have.

[Conor Dary]

Guilty, guilty, guilty....That didn't take long.

Nor should it have.

Absoultely right.