Penn State/State Pen [split]


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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:38 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:And now the fallout begins.
With Penn State reeling from a child sex abuse scandal,presenting sponsor Cars.com is bailing out of ESPN's Saturday telecast of Nebraska at Penn State from State College, Pa. (12 noon ET).

The automotive sponsor doesn't want its brand associated with a telecast featuring Penn State, which fired coach Joe Paterno Wednesday after former defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky was indicted on criminal charges of allegedly sexually abusing young boys.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... telecast/1

How much will this end up affecting Penn State's bottom line when all is said and done?

Also, McQueary won't be coaching Saturday, either on the sidelines or in the booth. My guess is that his days of coaching at any level are over with.


PS has become the equivalent of Bernie Madoff...

'a longtime supporter of ESPN College Football, it's important to us that we're building our brand and raising the visibility of our advertisers in a way that celebrates the sport, the dedication of its student athletes and the many reputable universities that field teams. We will still be sponsoring a game this weekend.

Will other advertisers follow? That remains to be seen. The national TV audience should be huge for Saturday's game given the media circus in Happy Valley. But the action of Cars.com could indicate the Penn State brand is becoming radioactive on Madison Avenue, at least temporarily.'
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:38 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Examples for comparison please.

Mike Price



Really?

From wikipedia -

A story in Sports Illustrated said that Price had been seen at a strip club. He allegedly later checked into a local hotel with at least one female exotic dancer from the club. The magazine further alleged Price had sex with one of the strippers, a claim which Price denied, although he acknowledged being intoxicated on the evening in question.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:41 pm

balzonia wrote:A lot of people, including some on the board here, are throwing around the words "conspiracy" and "cover-up." Conspiracies and cover-ups demand action. They take a lot of energy. JoePa didn't have this kind of energy to spend. I think the word that best describes this whole incident is apathy.

JoePa didn't truly care what happened out of his direct line of sight. And when this sordid story ended up in his lap, he did as little as possible to make sure he "met his legal obligation" without destroying his friend (Sandusky) and his program.

Same with the AD and President. They did nothing. They didn't try to buy anyone off or have anyone whacked. They ignored it and hoped it would go away quietly.

This screams apathy, not cover-up. In my mind, apathy is worse. No one involved truly cared about the boys being abused. An attempt at covering it up would, at least, show some admission that what was going on was incredibly heinous. But no one cared. Sad.

You're overlooking the alleged perjury by the A.D. and the vice president. I think that fits in the cover-up category.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:44 pm

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Examples for comparison please.

Mike Price



Really?

From wikipedia -

A story in Sports Illustrated said that Price had been seen at a strip club. He allegedly later checked into a local hotel with at least one female exotic dancer from the club. The magazine further alleged Price had sex with one of the strippers, a claim which Price denied, although he acknowledged being intoxicated on the evening in question.


What's the cause of termination? Partying too hard? He wasn't even charged with a misdemeaner, and this happened away from the school, in the off-season and out of sight of his team.
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:44 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
You're overlooking the alleged perjury by the A.D. and the vice president. I think that fits in the cover-up category.



This I agree with 100%. It was absolutely a coverup by the administration.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:46 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Examples for comparison please.

Mike Price



Really?

From wikipedia -

A story in Sports Illustrated said that Price had been seen at a strip club. He allegedly later checked into a local hotel with at least one female exotic dancer from the club. The magazine further alleged Price had sex with one of the strippers, a claim which Price denied, although he acknowledged being intoxicated on the evening in question.


What's the cause of termination? Partying too hard?




Personal conduct, which many(most?) professional contracts have in their language.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:51 pm

guru wrote:Personal conduct, which many(most?) professional contracts have in their language.

That's a deliberately vague catchall that could emcompass both Price's and Paterno's behavior.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jeremyp » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:54 pm

SQUACKEE wrote: but what I cant understand is after nothing was done why someone didnt come forward for 2 reasons.

1. This isnt going away and it will come out and then all hell is going break loose
2. How could you sleep knowing that doing nothin would result in children being raped


It's called denial!.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:58 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Personal conduct, which many(most?) professional contracts have in their language.

That's a deliberately vague catchall that could emcompass both Price's and Paterno's behavior.



Except Paterno did what he was supposed to - immediately inform his boss. Had he kept his mouth completely shut you might have a leg to stand on.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:04 pm

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Personal conduct, which many(most?) professional contracts have in their language.

That's a deliberately vague catchall that could emcompass both Price's and Paterno's behavior.



Except Paterno did what he was supposed to - immediately inform his boss. Had he kept his mouth completely shut you might have a leg to stand on.

You know and I know that these personal conduct clauses can mean whatever they want them to mean. As I pointed out earlier, Price did nothing illegal either, but legality has nothing to do with personal conduct clauses.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:09 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Also, McQueary won't be coaching Saturday, either on the sidelines or in the booth. My guess is that his days of coaching at any level are over with.



Penn State will not dismiss McQueary, because they know if they do they will be sued into insolvency for wrongful termination.


People need to understand there's a difference between professional and moral imperatives.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:16 pm

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Also, McQueary won't be coaching Saturday, either on the sidelines or in the booth. My guess is that his days of coaching at any level are over with.



Penn State will not dismiss McQueary, because they know if they do they will be sued into insolvency for wrongful termination.


People need to understand there's a difference between professional and moral imperatives.

They can let him go at any time as long as they write him a check for the remainder of time left on his contract. By the way, our discussion on Paterno is probably a moot point since he was in the last year of his contract. They can just scratch him a check for the remaining months also.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:06 pm

balzonia wrote:This screams apathy, not cover-up. In my mind, apathy is worse. No one involved truly cared about the boys being abused. An attempt at covering it up would, at least, show some admission that what was going on was incredibly heinous. But no one cared. Sad.


I think you may be correct in Paterno's case but not the AD and Shultz case. I'm also not so confident that whatever happened around 1998/99 wasn't all a whitewash well known to the University including Paterno. If that ever gets proven, Joe may be in jail.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby lonewolf » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:31 pm

We can bat this thing around from here to doomsday, spout legal cliches and wallow in moral dilemma but it is really very simple. I don't care crap about university chain of command or policy.

Some basic facts seem to be well established.

Penn State had a pedophile coach on staff.

A grad assistant witnessed him sodomizing a ten year old boy. When the GA turned his back instead of interfering in the rape, he became guilt of complicity in a felony and revealed himself as a wuss. This guy is a college graduate and had to ask his daddy what to do???

When GA told Paterno, who did not instantly pick up the phone and call the police, I don't care what the SOP was, that should not cover Paterno's ass. Paterno became an accomplice and is guilty as sin regardless of the legal niceties.

When Paterno eventually reported the crime to the AD/Police/President who took no action, they joined the cover up and should be prosecuted

When Paterno did not follow up immediately, he compounded his guilt.

Good works and senilty are no excuse. If he had the mental capacity to be a head football coach, he was competent to recognize the severity of the situation.

Yet, Paterno's only action was to try to cover his ass.. temporarily.

See. warn't that simple?

Don't cry for good ole JoePa.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:36 am

lonewolf wrote:
See. warn't that simple?



Simple? Simply brilliant. I wonder if the Paterno believers would feel differently if it was their son in the shower. I am going with 60% cover up and 40 % apathy.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:47 am

lonewolf wrote:A grad assistant witnessed him sodomizing a ten year old boy. When the GA turned his back instead of interfering in the rape, he became guilt of complicity in a felony and revealed himself as a wuss. This guy is a college graduate and had to ask his daddy what to do???


I think he did stop the rape at that point and running in would likely have traumatized the kid more, not less. Since he was a GA, he was not an employee in the same sense, rather he was someone that had seen his former coach, who he rather immediately reported it in detail to the biggest guy in Penn State and his boss, Paterno. He then reported it to both the AD and the VP, who is in charge of the campus police.

I am willing to wait on McQueary because there is more to find out there; the others will have details that matter, but I early on predicted both that Paterno would be gone and that I thought he could be gone almost immediately, although it took a few days.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby kevinsdad » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:52 am

I am going with 60% cover up and 40 % apathy.


I think that's being too generous. I've yet to see much mention of the fact that in March 2002 Paterno was coming off two losing seasons in a row and had come under considerable pressure to step down. He had to know that he was gone for sure if anyone found out about Sandusky, and it's entirely fair to infer that this knowledge influenced how he [mis]handled the matter.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:55 am

26mi235 wrote:
lonewolf wrote:A grad assistant witnessed him sodomizing a ten year old boy. When the GA turned his back instead of interfering in the rape, he became guilt of complicity in a felony and revealed himself as a wuss. This guy is a college graduate and had to ask his daddy what to do???


I think he did stop the rape at that point and running in would likely have traumatized the kid more, not less. Since he was a GA, he was not an employee in the same sense, rather he was someone that had seen his former coach, who he rather immediately reported it in detail to the biggest guy in Penn State and his boss, Paterno. He then reported it to both the AD and the VP, who is in charge of the campus police.

I am willing to wait on McQueary because there is more to find out there; the others will have details that matter, but I early on predicted both that Paterno would be gone and that I thought he could be gone almost immediately, although it took a few days.


It is an odd system that does NOT require an indivdual, who is a eyewitness to a crime, to report it to the police! What if he saw a murder? Why would the rape of a 10 year old be treated differently then murder? It makes no sense to me whatsoever!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jeremyp » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:52 am

lonewolf wrote:We can bat this thing around from here to doomsday, spout legal cliches and wallow in moral dilemma but it is really very simple. I don't care crap about university chain of command or policy.

Some basic facts seem to be well established.

Penn State had a pedophile coach on staff.

A grad assistant witnessed him sodomizing a ten year old boy. When the GA turned his back instead of interfering in the rape, he became guilt of complicity in a felony and revealed himself as a wuss. This guy is a college graduate and had to ask his daddy what to do???

When GA told Paterno, who did not instantly pick up the phone and call the police, I don't care what the SOP was, that should not cover Paterno's ass. Paterno became an accomplice and is guilty as sin regardless of the legal niceties.

When Paterno eventually reported the crime to the AD/Police/President who took no action, they joined the cover up and should be prosecuted

When Paterno did not follow up immediately, he compounded his guilt.

Good works and senilty are no excuse. If he had the mental capacity to be a head football coach, he was competent to recognize the severity of the situation.

Yet, Paterno's only action was to try to cover his ass.. temporarily.

See. warn't that simple?

Don't cry for good ole JoePa.


That pretty well sums it up for me. Now the University should donate all this seasons and next seasons gates to the victims. JoePa should also donate this years salary, and maybe back to 2002.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jeremyp » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:57 am

Hall of shame.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/fa ... 6#photo=12

Hey T&F gets a mention. :(
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:03 am

I just happened to catch an ESPN show just now with four talking heads who made a very interesting point. In State College, Pennsylvania, far from the madding (media) crowds, there is one Supreme Leader, to whom everyone else acquiesces. The Buck stopped with him. Even the DA and police followed his lead. He's the reason why there was rioting on the campus after he was dethroned. His subjects worshiped him. The Emperor is Dead and there is no successor. Anarchy prevails.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:05 am

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Personal conduct, which many(most?) professional contracts have in their language.

That's a deliberately vague catchall that could emcompass both Price's and Paterno's behavior.



Except Paterno did what he was supposed to - immediately inform his boss. Had he kept his mouth completely shut you might have a leg to stand on.


In most other states, what Paterno did was illegal. From my paper this morning:

<<Pennsylvania law under scrutiny: Paterno's notification of only his bosses rather than calling the police or a child-abuse hotline was all the state's law required him to do. Yet, in most other states the failure to call could be a crime.

More than 40 states require persons with such knowledge to report to police or child-protection authorities swiftly and directly, with no option for delegating the task to others and then not following through.

Already, the Penn State scandal is sparking calls for Pennsylvania to toughen its law.>>
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:17 am

lonewolf wrote:A grad assistant witnessed him sodomizing a ten year old boy. When the GA turned his back instead of interfering in the rape, he became guilt of complicity in a felony and revealed himself as a wuss. This guy is a college graduate and had to ask his daddy what to do???

No one truly knows how they will react when they are suddenly shocked or frightened. Remember on 9/11, after W found out that the country was under attack, he froze for seven minutes in that a Florida classroom before he was able to compose himself and act. Chesley Sullenberger said that he was barely able to control his bodily functions when he landed that plane in the Hudson a couple of years ago. McQueary probably thought he was going to find a football player banging a co-ed when he first heard the sounds coming from that shower. After all, he didn't hear anyone yelling or screaming for help. Perhaps he didn't even start to wonder how old the kid was until he had already walked away and was trying to get over the shock. His brain was probably on information overload just trying to process it all. I think what he did after he got over the shock (3 minutes? 10 minutes?) is a better measure of his character than what he did in those first few initial seconds.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:26 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
lonewolf wrote:A grad assistant witnessed him sodomizing a ten year old boy. When the GA turned his back instead of interfering in the rape, he became guilt of complicity in a felony and revealed himself as a wuss. This guy is a college graduate and had to ask his daddy what to do???

No one truly knows how they will react when they are suddenly shocked or frightened. Remember on 9/11, after W found out that the country was under attack, he froze for seven minutes in that a Florida classroom before he was able to compose himself and act. Chesley Sullenberger said that he was barely able to control his bodily functions when he landed that plane in the Hudson a couple of years ago. McQueary probably thought he was going to find a football player banging a co-ed when he first heard the sounds coming from that shower. After all, he didn't hear anyone yelling or screaming for help. Perhaps he didn't even start to wonder how old the kid was until he had already walked away and was trying to get over the shock. His brain was probably on information overload just trying to process it all. I think what he did after he got over the shock (3 minutes? 10 minutes?) is a better measure of his character than what he did in those first few initial seconds.


That is assuming McQ didn't suspect something before, which after previous incidents seems doubtful.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:38 am

Conor Dary wrote:That is assuming McQ didn't suspect something before, which after previous incidents seems doubtful.

That's idle speculation and conjecture. Furthermore, hearing gossip is not the same as knowing, and we don't even know what the gossip was. Was the rumor that he was a gay pervert who had sex with strange men in public places? Or was it that he was a pedophile? There are people I know who are gay, but I would still be shocked if I saw them having sex with a consenting adult in a public place, not to mention a child. Think about it, the public sex is shocking enough without the pedophilia. McQueary would have been shocked if he caught Sandusky having sex with wife in that shower.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:59 am

[quote="jazzcyclist"][quote="Conor Dary"]That is assuming McQ didn't suspect something before, which after previous incidents seems doubtful.[/quote]
That's idle speculation and conjecture. Furthermore, hearing gossip is not the same as knowing, and we don't even know what the gossip was. Was the rumor that he was a gay pervert who had sex with strange men in public places? Or was it that he was a pedophile? There are people I know who are gay, but I would still be shocked if I saw them having sex with a consenting adult in a public place, not to mention a child. Think about it, the public sex is shocking enough without the pedophilia. McQueary would have been shocked if he caught Sandusky having sex with wife in that shower.[/quote]

Not speculation at all. An investigation in 1998. McQ could had at least screamed 'what the fuck are you doing!' But he did nothing to stop it...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/sport ... tions.html
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:18 am

In the game of 'what would I have done in the same circumstance?' (which is so easy to play when NOT presented with the actual situation, and in 20/20 hindsight), I'm positive I (and most posters here) would not have left the scene of the crime, nor would we have allowed Sandusky NOT to be strenuously prosecuted ! :( That's my problem with all this.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby BruceFlorman » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:19 am

gh wrote:In most other states, what Paterno did was illegal.

Clearly everyone in the state of Pennsylvania, from the Governor on down, knew every detail of this case since at least 1998, if not decades earlier! I think the entire state should be fired, imprisoned and excluded from the United States! Sick Pennsylvania bastards! :roll:
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:23 am

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Personal conduct, which many(most?) professional contracts have in their language.

That's a deliberately vague catchall that could emcompass both Price's and Paterno's behavior.



Except Paterno did what he was supposed to - immediately inform his boss. Had he kept his mouth completely shut you might have a leg to stand on.


The problem here is believing in the concept that the guys he talked to were his boss. In title....maybe. In reality....you've got to be kidding.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:26 am

lonewolf wrote:We can bat this thing around from here to doomsday, spout legal cliches and wallow in moral dilemma but it is really very simple. I don't care crap about university chain of command or policy.

Some basic facts seem to be well established.

Penn State had a pedophile coach on staff.

A grad assistant witnessed him sodomizing a ten year old boy. When the GA turned his back instead of interfering in the rape, he became guilt of complicity in a felony and revealed himself as a wuss. This guy is a college graduate and had to ask his daddy what to do???

When GA told Paterno, who did not instantly pick up the phone and call the police, I don't care what the SOP was, that should not cover Paterno's ass. Paterno became an accomplice and is guilty as sin regardless of the legal niceties.

When Paterno eventually reported the crime to the AD/Police/President who took no action, they joined the cover up and should be prosecuted

When Paterno did not follow up immediately, he compounded his guilt.

Good works and senilty are no excuse. If he had the mental capacity to be a head football coach, he was competent to recognize the severity of the situation.

Yet, Paterno's only action was to try to cover his ass.. temporarily.

See. warn't that simple?

Don't cry for good ole JoePa.


There we go. Perfect.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:29 am

Conor Dary wrote:McQ could had at least screamed 'what the fuck are you doing!' But he did nothing to stop it...

Don't you think he wishes he would have stopped it? I'm sure he's not proud of the fact that he didn't act more heroically. As I said earlier, he may have simply froze.

We also don't know how long he watched them before he walked away. Did he stand there and watch for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, a minute? Or did he just get a quick glance before he walked away? I've accidentally walked in on friends and family in the bathroom, as I'm sure most of us have, and my reaction has always been to immediately close the door and walk away. Is that how he reacted? Eventually, we'll hear from McQueary himself, and then we'll be able to give this incident more context so we won't have to speculate.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:31 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
lonewolf wrote:A grad assistant witnessed him sodomizing a ten year old boy. When the GA turned his back instead of interfering in the rape, he became guilt of complicity in a felony and revealed himself as a wuss. This guy is a college graduate and had to ask his daddy what to do???

No one truly knows how they will react when they are suddenly shocked or frightened. Remember on 9/11, after W found out that the country was under attack, he froze for seven minutes in that a Florida classroom before he was able to compose himself and act. Chesley Sullenberger said that he was barely able to control his bodily functions when he landed that plane in the Hudson a couple of years ago. McQueary probably thought he was going to find a football player banging a co-ed when he first heard the sounds coming from that shower. After all, he didn't hear anyone yelling or screaming for help. Perhaps he didn't even start to wonder how old the kid was until he had already walked away and was trying to get over the shock. His brain was probably on information overload just trying to process it all. I think what he did after he got over the shock (3 minutes? 10 minutes?) is a better measure of his character than what he did in those first few initial seconds.


Jazz....if he was able to compose himself enough to make a phone call to dad, why couldn't he compose himself enough to call the police?

I do agree with the overall thought that something like this can be shocking initially and the first instinct could be to leave but he did manage to make a phone call.....just to the wrong people....and it's certainly curious because it fits into an immediate thought process of protecting the school and himself.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:39 am

jazzcyclist wrote:...... After all, he didn't hear anyone yelling or screaming for help. .....


If this is true (and I have no idea if it is), it probably makes for a totally different reaction.

Not to get too bogged down in semantics, but while the age of the kid automatically makes it (as it should) "rape," there's a difference between a flat-out physical attack and something "consensual" (yes, I know that a kid that age can't really consent).

I'd like to think that if it had appeared to be a physical attack of a violent kind (on anybody of either sex of any age), McQ would have acted much differently. One's first reaction to coming upon anybody "having sex" is to turn as quickly as possible and get out of the way.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:44 am

Marlow wrote:In the game of 'what would I have done in the same circumstance?' (which is so easy to play when NOT presented with the actual situation, and in 20/20 hindsight), I'm positive I (and most posters here) would not have left the scene of the crime, nor would we have allowed Sandusky NOT to be strenuously prosecuted ! :( That's my problem with all this.

You're not positive of anything and neither is anyone else on this board. The only thing we know for sure is what we hope we would do. I'll guarantee you that the day before this incident happened, if someone had presented McQueary with this hypothetical situation, there's no way that he would have believed that he would have handled it the way he did. Furthermore, a week ago, there's no way you could have convinced any of the posters on this board that Paterno would have handled things this way.

Yesterday, Lou Holtz said that having been a graduate assistant and having been a head coach at big-time football schools, he understood why McQueary thought he should take it up the chain of command rather than go to the police. He said that the relationship that graduate assistants have with the coaching staffs at these big time schools is such that most of them wouldn't even consider going to the police without checking with the head coach.

However, he did fault Paterno and said that it's not plausible that Paterno wouldn't ask McQueary to explain exactly what happened.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:48 am

gh wrote:I'd like to think that if it had appeared to be a physical attack of a violent kind (on anybody of either sex of any age), McQ would have acted much differently. One's first reaction to coming upon anybody "having sex" is to turn as quickly as possible and get out of the way.

Bingo!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:50 am

JoePa losing friends left and right. From the Washington Post:

<<Pennsylvania’s senators on Thursday announced that they are rescinding their support for the nomination of Joe Paterno for a Presidential Medal of Freedom, one day after the longtime Penn State football coach was fired by the school’s board of trustees in the wake of a child sex-abuse scandal that has shocked the country.

“In light of the recent events in State College, we are rescinding our support for the nomination of Joe Paterno for the Presidential Medal of Freedom,” Sens. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) said in a statement.

“We hope the proper authorities will move forward with their investigation without delay. Penn State is an important institution in our commonwealth. We should turn our attention to the victims of these atrocious crimes and ensure they get the help they need. Our hearts and prayers go out to them and their families.”..>>
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby DrJay » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:16 am

Albus Dumbledore may not have been a Greek philosopher, but he said:

"We're in a time when we must choose between what is right and what is easy.”

Bottom line is a bunch of real men, not movie characters, in postions of responsibility and power, were worthless pieces of shit and chose easy over right. How many more little boys got buggered because no one did what was right?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby mojo » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:32 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
gh wrote:I'd like to think that if it had appeared to be a physical attack of a violent kind (on anybody of either sex of any age), McQ would have acted much differently. One's first reaction to coming upon anybody "having sex" is to turn as quickly as possible and get out of the way.

Bingo!



This is the most outrageous thing I have ever read on this board.

Anally raping a TEN YEAR OLD is violence to the tenth degree! This was not sex, it was was a brutal assault.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:36 am

I don't disagree. But what it was and what it may have appeared to be (on what would surely have been little more than a cursory glance) aren't necessarily the same thing. I understand your horror at the nature of the crime, but I don't think the "discovery" is as black and white as it's being painted.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:48 am

jazzcyclist wrote:You're not positive of anything

Yeah, actually I am. There are many things I don't know about myself, but there are SOME things I do. We had a particularly nasty thread here once about what one would one do if he knew his buddy was cheating on his wife. I was in the very small minority who said I would tell him either he tell his wife or I would. This was not a hypothetical situation for me. It happened. The vast majority of men would disagree with me (and even vilify me), but I know what I can live with and what I can't.
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