Penn State/State Pen [split]


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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:08 am

SQUACKEE wrote:Of course, all the coaches know! Everyone here, who thinks they could keep the fact that an x-coach was raping a 10 year old in the teams locker room, quiet for 8 years.......RAISE YOUR HAND!

At least one of our posters seems to believe this.

Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe. - Euripides
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:20 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:Of course, all the coaches know! Everyone here, who thinks they could keep the fact that an x-coach was raping a 10 year old in the teams locker room, quiet for 8 years.......RAISE YOUR HAND!

At least one of our posters seems to believe this.


I understand, the whole thing is really ugly but it is what it is. Can I honestly say I would have done things differently then Mcgeary? I hope so, not sure. I may have been so repulsed that I would leave the shower area and confided in and trust the coach, maybe. I can not believe that after finding out the guy I say raping a 10 year old got away with it, that I wouldnt go to the cops, that is not possible!
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby mojo » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:26 am

Squack-I KNOW you would have done something right then and there.

No decent human being would just walk away. Think about it guys! You see a child being raped and you would just leave? Not at the very least phone 911? What if it was a woman?(and you could tell it was not consensual?)


Walking away was to me almost as bad as the crime itself.

And thank you SQUACK for speaking up for the victims. They really seem to be lost in all this.

This won't end for years with all the civil lawsuits that will come out of it-the university will have to pay out millions and millions-and so they should.
Last edited by mojo on Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby bad hammy » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:30 am

jazzcyclist wrote:At least one of our posters seems to believe this.

Man's most valuable trait is a judicious sense of what not to believe. - Euripides

Euripides is posting here? What's his user ID??
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:34 am

In the quasi-military structure that is a big-time football program, with rigid chains of command, I can see (which isn't the same as condone) why somebody's first reaction would be to run it by a higher-up rather than go outside the organization. And I can see Paterno's first reaction being,"I have subordinates who handle this kind of thing."

Unfortunately, once that has happened, the "thin blue line" cone of silence descends and nobody wants to be the one to violate the code (even if the crime, as it was in this case, was far worse than a code violation).
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:00 pm

gh wrote:In the quasi-military structure that is a big-time football program, with rigid chains of command, I can see (which isn't the same as condone) why somebody's first reaction would be to run it by a higher-up rather than go outside the organization. And I can see Paterno's first reaction being,"I have subordinates who handle this kind of thing."

Unfortunately, once that has happened, the "thin blue line" cone of silence descends and nobody wants to be the one to violate the code (even if the crime, as it was in this case, was far worse than a code violation).


Great point and I think your spot on, but what I cant understand is after nothing was done why someone didnt come forward for 2 reasons.

1. This isnt going away and it will come out and then all hell is going break loose
2. How could you sleep knowing that doing nothin would result in children being raped
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:11 pm

Whatever one's view of the moral responsibilities in a case like this, I suspect Paterno would have a very strong case in a wrongful termination lawsuit.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:15 pm

Cooter Brown wrote:The journalist (Madden) quoted here wrote about this Sandusky case coming out way back in April. Everything he said then has been proven to be spot on. It was pretty much ignored by media back then.

"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen," Madden told John Dennis and Gerry Callahan. "I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation -- and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can -- that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."
http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandu ... adden.html


Anyone who believes that a charity set up by an....alleged....serial pedophile for troubled boys is not going to be a major story in this disaster is just as clueless as some of the PSU students crying that JoePa got a raw deal by being fired.

The same JoePa who is on the board of trustees at that charity. Where this is going....I have no idea. However, we're at the tip of the iceberg.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:19 pm

BisonHurdler wrote:
mojo wrote:Saw on CNN that the coach who witnessed the rape and did nothing will be coaching this weekend's game and has not resigned nor been asked to thus far. WTF?


Correct, and this makes it quite clear that the board of trustee's decision last night had less to do with cleaning up the program and much more to do with PR damage control.

For those keeping score at home, the guy who saw Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy and failed to report it to the police still has his job. The guy who only heard about his friend's awful shower activities from a second hand source - but reported it to the head of the university police department nonetheless - was immediately terminated.


You've really got to be kidding us all.

"the guy"?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:20 pm

mojo wrote:Squack-I KNOW you would have done something right then and there.

No decent human being would just walk away. Think about it guys! You see a child being raped and you would just leave? Not at the very least phone 911? What if it was a woman?(and you could tell it was not consensual?)


Walking away was to me almost as bad as the crime itself.

And thank you SQUACK for speaking up for the victims. They really seem to be lost in all this.

This won't end for years with all the civil lawsuits that will come out of it-the university will have to pay out millions and millions-and so they should.

No one truly knows how they will react when they're in shock. All of us would like to think we would be heroes, and I'm sure McQueary would have thought that about himself too, but no one knows for sure, especially when there are close personal relationships at stake. I'm surprised that McQueary's father didn't tell him to go save the kid, or if he felt that his son wasn't capable of functioning, at least rush to the campus and confront Sandusky himself.

However, what's damning is how McQueary, his father, Paterno and the rest acted after they had gotten over the intial shock the next day. But with Paterno being such a patriarchal figure in that community, it's understandable that everyone involved would defer to his judgement, including the President.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:23 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
BisonHurdler wrote:
mojo wrote:Saw on CNN that the coach who witnessed the rape and did nothing will be coaching this weekend's game and has not resigned nor been asked to thus far. WTF?


Correct, and this makes it quite clear that the board of trustee's decision last night had less to do with cleaning up the program and much more to do with PR damage control.

For those keeping score at home, the guy who saw Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy and failed to report it to the police still has his job. The guy who only heard about his friend's awful shower activities from a second hand source - but reported it to the head of the university police department nonetheless - was immediately terminated.


I tried to belabor this point (among others) ad nauseum yesterday. Everyone assumes that what is known now was known in full by Joe and he deliberately covered it up. I suspect he knew far less than the media is portraying and that the real culprit here is McQueary (excluding the criminal Sandusky), who, coincidentally, appears to be unscathed. We live in a society now driven by a media of sensationalism and the story that Joe Paterno knew all the sordid details fills the insatiable need of many.

If Joe did cover up for some reason for his own personal vain agenda, then maybe he deserves the shame, but I am willing to wait until all is known. I don't believe McQueary has been forthright in all that is being told now. I am willing to bet that will come out at a later time.

If some of the other reports are true, that many in the community knew? There is a hell of a lot more people that share a huge amount of blame than just those the media is attacking.

We are definitely a minority.


Yeah let's spread out the blame because "the guy" who was the entirety of Penn State football knew, by his own admission, that there was sexual behaviour between a former coach and current friend failed to follow through as he should have.

Maybe "the guy" who had the most power in town should have done what he was supposed to do and ensured at some point in the last 9 YEARS!!!!! that his friend was pointed out to someone with the authority to do something.

Instead of that....it's everyone in towns fault.

Good lord.

There's others that the finger can point at for sure however "the guy" who some are now giving some credence to some sort of magical naivate about the situation when it seems there was talk about this all over town....plus he was TOLD about it.....when all he would have done is ask a few questions and point the answers in the right direction deserves his share of the blame.
Last edited by Dutra on Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:24 pm

guru wrote:Whatever one's view of the moral responsibilities in a case like this, I suspect Paterno would have a very strong case in a wrongful termination lawsuit.

Big time football coaches and basketball coaches have been terminated for far less that this.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:25 pm

gh wrote:In the quasi-military structure . . . Unfortunately, once that has happened, the "thin blue line" cone of silence descends and nobody wants to be the one to violate the code

Don't believe everything you see in Jack Nicholson movies . . . the military Honor Code makes it abundantly clear that if you see a violation, your job is to not only to report it to the Chain of Command, but to ensure that it ultimately and properly reaches the Judge Advocate. Commanding Officers are loathe to attempt cover-ups (despite the cover-ups that have been successful too) because there are ombudsmen that one can anonymously report to and get the CO fired. In my 20 years I witnessed several personal debacles and only in a few circumstances was a cover-up attempt even initiated and not once did it get anywhere (the cover-up).
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Marlow » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:27 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
guru wrote:Whatever one's view of the moral responsibilities in a case like this, I suspect Paterno would have a very strong case in a wrongful termination lawsuit.

Big time football coaches and basketball coaches have been terminated for far less that this.

And JoePa wouldn't even attempt it (though I bet there's some kind of severance package).
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby BisonHurdler » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:29 pm

Dutra wrote:
BisonHurdler wrote:
mojo wrote:Saw on CNN that the coach who witnessed the rape and did nothing will be coaching this weekend's game and has not resigned nor been asked to thus far. WTF?


Correct, and this makes it quite clear that the board of trustee's decision last night had less to do with cleaning up the program and much more to do with PR damage control.

For those keeping score at home, the guy who saw Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy and failed to report it to the police still has his job. The guy who only heard about his friend's awful shower activities from a second hand source - but reported it to the head of the university police department nonetheless - was immediately terminated.


You've really got to be kidding us all.

"the guy"?


I ain't.

I'm not sure what you're taking issue with re: my use of "the guy." It's a gender-appropriate descriptor, no?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby guru » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:36 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Big time football coaches and basketball coaches have been terminated for far less that this.



We're not talking NCAA violations here.


He did exactly what he was supposed to do in that situation - informed his superiors. In ANY business, that is SOP. It's not his fault the administrators(which Paterno is NOT) buried the incident, and that's why they are facing criminal charges, and he isn't.

From a legal and contractual standpoint, he would be on very solid ground - if he were so inclined.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Halfmiler2 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:43 pm

Conor Dary wrote:I saw that yesterday, but Paterno was dominating the news yesterday. I suspect it will get a lot more attention soon. This whole story will only get more sordid.

I wouldn't be surprised their game with Nebraska is forfeited Saturday...


One has to think that even if they get through the rest of the regular season, that they would not get a bowl bid, or if they must get a bid for contractual reasons, there would be huge pressure on them to decline it.

If things get worse, can the Big Ten seek to make them leave the conference - even if that is unfair to their other sports programs?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:53 pm

Dutra wrote:Instead of that....it's everyone in towns fault. Good lord.


I am merely pointing out what a former player stated combined with the logic used by many of you posting here. You read it, it must therefore be true. Since we now know (from one former player) that many former players knew, his own mother knew, employees of the school knew, even those in the community. So if a whole community knew, including law enforcement in that community, why did no one raise a stink before? Certainly if all of this is true Paterno shares blame, along with a whole slew of other people.

I am surprised some of the people here have not already lynched Paterno and started on everyone else. No due process, you have already tried and convicted "the guy". Yet, you have a hard time grasping my inference based upon other posters, logic, that a whole community is partially at fault? You all seem to be so eager at such behavior. What is the reach here?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:07 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
Dutra wrote:Instead of that....it's everyone in towns fault. Good lord.


I am merely pointing out what a former player stated combined with the logic used by many of you posting here. You read it, it must therefore be true. Since we now know (from one former player) that many former players knew, his own mother knew, employees of the school knew, even those in the community. So if a whole community knew, including law enforcement in that community, why did no one raise a stink before? Certainly if all of this is true Paterno shares blame, along with a whole slew of other people.

I am surprised some of the people here have not already lynched Paterno and started on everyone else. No due process, you have already tried and convicted "the guy". Yet, you have a hard time grasping my inference based upon other posters, logic, that a whole community is partially at fault? You all seem to be so eager at such behavior. What is the reach here?


There is a big differance between gossip getting around the town in hushed whispers and Coaches talking to the freaking EYEWITNESS! We dont know everything but do we know enough.

I think with the sworn statements we know enough to make a logical conclusion.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:22 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:I think with the sworn statements we know enough to make a logical conclusion.


Which sworn statements are those, mind you? The ones in which McQueary says he saw the rape and told Paterno, or those in which Paterno said that McQueary did not give him such details. Or with the supportable facts that Paterno went to his superiors with the information he had?

There is absolutely no way that McQueary would be covering his ass right? :roll: :oops:

What other evidence or logic is there? That someone like Paterno with a lifelong upstanding reputation would cover up a known rape? What decent person in their right mind would do so? That alone makes me believe McQueary may not be telling the full truth now! Why? I mean, you don't ask yourself why he didn't do more and now is pointing fingers making it look like he did his minimum obligation, that real low standard that Paterno as well met?

We know very little about quite a bit. I am all too sure I can trust the media in every respect to give every fact that needs to be known. Right!! :roll:

Am I naive? Maybe, but I believe in due process. I would not convict someone without them having a chance to present their case. Many of you act as though Paterno was holding the kid down helping Sandusky. "Good Lord!"
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:50 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:I think with the sworn statements we know enough to make a logical conclusion.


Which sworn statements are those, mind you? The ones in which McQueary says he saw the rape and told Paterno, or those in which Paterno said that McQueary did not give him such details. Or with the supportable facts that Paterno went to his superiors with the information he had?

There is absolutely no way that McQueary would be covering his ass right? :roll: :oops:

What other evidence or logic is there? That someone like Paterno with a lifelong upstanding reputation would cover up a known rape? What decent person in their right mind would do so? That alone makes me believe McQueary may not be telling the full truth now! Why? I mean, you don't ask yourself why he didn't do more and now is pointing fingers making it look like he did his minimum obligation, that real low standard that Paterno as well met?

We know very little about quite a bit. I am all too sure I can trust the media in every respect to give every fact that needs to be known. Right!! :roll:

Am I naive? Maybe, but I believe in due process. I would not convict someone without them having a chance to present their case. Many of you act as though Paterno was holding the kid down helping Sandusky. "Good Lord!"


Mcqueary's sworn statement that he said to Paterno that he saw his x coach w naked in the shower with a young boy and there was sexual activity.....I give up
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:30 pm

Just heard a report on the radio that McQ has been asked not to appear on the field on Saturday.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:02 pm

guru wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Big time football coaches and basketball coaches have been terminated for far less that this.



We're not talking NCAA violations here.


He did exactly what he was supposed to do in that situation - informed his superiors. In ANY business, that is SOP. It's not his fault the administrators(which Paterno is NOT) buried the incident, and that's why they are facing criminal charges, and he isn't.

From a legal and contractual standpoint, he would be on very solid ground - if he were so inclined.

I'm not talking about NCAA violations either. I'm talking about coaches who engaged in embarassing but non-criminal behavior away from the job who were let go.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:08 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:There is a big differance between gossip getting around the town in hushed whispers and Coaches talking to the freaking EYEWITNESS! We dont know everything but do we know enough.

I think with the sworn statements we know enough to make a logical conclusion.

Amen! There's a big difference between "believing", "thinking" or "suspecting" and "knowing". McQueary KNOWS what he saw. Paterno KNOWS what McQueary told him he saw.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:24 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:I think with the sworn statements we know enough to make a logical conclusion.


Which sworn statements are those, mind you? The ones in which McQueary says he saw the rape and told Paterno, or those in which Paterno said that McQueary did not give him such details. Or with the supportable facts that Paterno went to his superiors with the information he had?

There is absolutely no way that McQueary would be covering his ass right? :roll: :oops:


Paterno testified that McQueary told him he saw Sundusky fondling or doing something of a sexual nature with a 10 year old in the grand jury testimony. That in itself should have inspired Joe to find out what was going on. That could be anything from what McQueary was talking about to finding out about Sandusky.

Paterno was the football program. He wasn't some middle manager giving info to his boss to move up the chain. He was the top of the chain and chose to do very little with it. It was his job to find out what was going on. There have been countless tales of information circulating around campus over a period of years. If you don't think there was enough smoke to have Joe make a better effort to figure it out then you are naive.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Dutra » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:25 pm

BisonHurdler wrote:
Dutra wrote:
BisonHurdler wrote:
mojo wrote:Saw on CNN that the coach who witnessed the rape and did nothing will be coaching this weekend's game and has not resigned nor been asked to thus far. WTF?


Correct, and this makes it quite clear that the board of trustee's decision last night had less to do with cleaning up the program and much more to do with PR damage control.

For those keeping score at home, the guy who saw Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy and failed to report it to the police still has his job. The guy who only heard about his friend's awful shower activities from a second hand source - but reported it to the head of the university police department nonetheless - was immediately terminated.


You've really got to be kidding us all.

"the guy"?


I ain't.

I'm not sure what you're taking issue with re: my use of "the guy." It's a gender-appropriate descriptor, no?


If you wish to attach the moniker "the guy" to Joe Paterno....the entirety of Penn State Football then so be it. It's incredibly naive.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:33 pm

mojo wrote:Saw on CNN that the coach who witnessed the rape and did nothing will be coaching this weekend's game and has not resigned nor been asked to thus far. WTF?


I am not at all certain (to myself) what to think of McQueary. He was obviously shocked by what he saw and was in a personally difficult situation. Yes, it would have been good to have him stop the incident, but that is much easier said from our vantage point than from the situation. I think he had no legal obligation to do that (read the report). He did, semi-immediately report it to the biggest power in the whole business, in detail according to him and the Grand Jury thinks his version is the most credible. He then reported it in detail to the next line of official bosses, one of whom was the HEAD OF CAMPUS POLICE. That can easily be interpreted as having told the legal authorities.

As for firing him, that action may need to be held in abeyance because he is in the position of the whistle-blower; without him there would be a more difficult case to put together.

As far as I can tell, there was no link within the investigation that pointed a finger at him, he testified to the Grand Jury. May be what happened is that the 2008 case led to calling in the big wigs and in that process they got to the 2002 case, since that is the point where they 'took his keys away' and told him no more kids on campus....


Question. The grand jury started in 2008 (late) or 2009, right? Once Sandusky was identified wouldn't he be a risk to let him continue to prey on kids? There is no link to anything that happened after the 2008 report, so does that mean that they brought Sandusky in and having identified him is was clear that: 1) he was being watched; 2) the cost of anything new would be immediate and thus; 3) they deemed it not too high a risk to continue to investigate in secret. I note that he is now forbidden to be alone with his three young (<10) grandchildren.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:54 pm

gh wrote:Just heard a report on the radio that McQ has been asked not to appear on the field on Saturday.


They didn't say one way or another, but my immediate reaction was that it was because they didn't want any of the "guilty" people representing the university, but now I'm wondering if after the pro-Joe rally got a bit rough last night, and if he's viewed as a whistle-blower, if they fear for his safety from those zealots?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:00 pm

Dutra wrote:If you don't think there was enough smoke to have Joe make a better effort to figure it out then you are naive.

Or maybe close to Paterno personally and unable to see the forest for the trees.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:05 pm

gh wrote:
gh wrote:Just heard a report on the radio that McQ has been asked not to appear on the field on Saturday.


They didn't say one way or another, but my immediate reaction was that it was because they didn't want any of the "guilty" people representing the university, but now I'm wondering if after the pro-Joe rally got a bit rough last night, and if he's viewed as a whistle-blower, if they fear for his safety from those zealots?

Someone on ESPN just said that they are afraid for his safety.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:19 pm

Halfmiler2 wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:I saw that yesterday, but Paterno was dominating the news yesterday. I suspect it will get a lot more attention soon. This whole story will only get more sordid.

I wouldn't be surprised their game with Nebraska is forfeited Saturday...


One has to think that even if they get through the rest of the regular season, that they would not get a bowl bid, or if they must get a bid for contractual reasons, there would be huge pressure on them to decline it.

If things get worse, can the Big Ten seek to make them leave the conference - even if that is unfair to their other sports programs?


My brother and I were discussing the Big Ten kicking them out last night. I wouldn't be surprised some Big Ten officials are of the same mind....Who wants to be dragged down in the mud...
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:20 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
gh wrote:
gh wrote:Just heard a report on the radio that McQ has been asked not to appear on the field on Saturday.


They didn't say one way or another, but my immediate reaction was that it was because they didn't want any of the "guilty" people representing the university, but now I'm wondering if after the pro-Joe rally got a bit rough last night, and if he's viewed as a whistle-blower, if they fear for his safety from those zealots?

Someone on ESPN just said that they are afraid for his safety.


I am amazed they are still talking about playing this game...the season is over....
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby gh » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:43 pm

not play the game? The students would raze the whole campus.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:52 pm

Dutra wrote:Paterno was the football program. . . . He was the top of the chain and chose to do very little with it. It was his job to find out what was going on.


Let me see, Sandusky was no longer a coach with the school, nor had been since 1999. Had access to the university but was not part of the football program, not an employee, not a coach . . for 3 years running at that time. Paterno heard something was amiss and took it to the person who was responsible for an incident like this. Sandusky was someone who was no longer under his charge.

Dutra wrote:If you don't think there was enough smoke to have Joe make a better effort to figure it out then you are naive.


I never said that Joe could not have done better. I said I could feel sympathy for him in making a mistake in judgment for someone who may have been a close friend. If he knew a rape occurred then I believe he should and WOULD have done more. I don't believe he knew the full gravity of the situation. If he did know and did nothing, then shame on him and he deserves the wrath people are giving him.

The simple fact is the grand jury "evidence" that McQueary gave was not the same "evidence" that Paterno gave. The actions subsequent to this meeting seem to me to favor more of what Joe said than McQueary. McQueary does nothing though he had more information than anyone, allegedly. Paterno takes what he knows to his supervisor, and the person that had the authority for handling the situation for the university. In my opinion, if Paterno knew the gravity of what was going on he would have done more, not cover it up.

I think Sandusky probably convinced him there was a misunderstanding of what McQueary saw and Paterno mistakenly believed him and did not follow up enough, though he did report the incident.

I never have said that he did not have fault or shared blame. I simply do not choose to crucify someone before all facts are known. You think you know all the facts, I don't. I think there is plenty more to come to light and that McQueary has not been forthright in all he has said, in part based on his actions and the actions of others after the incident. I may be naive, so may you. One thing is clear, you are certainly much more vindictive than I am.

And, in response to a later post, I have no close ties to Paterno, I am not a fan of Penn State. I was hoping he would retire anyway. I am simply unwilling to go along with the rest of the media driven sheep to castigate him. Many of you appear to believe he is bad as Sandusky and should be treated the same. Even Sandusky deserves his day in court.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby BisonHurdler » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:10 pm

Dutra wrote:If you wish to attach the moniker "the guy" to Joe Paterno....the entirety of Penn State Football then so be it. It's incredibly naive.


You must be privy to some alternate definition of the word of which I am unaware. You're grinding a very strange axe here.
Last edited by BisonHurdler on Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:16 pm

Sandusky deserves his day in civil court. The world moves forward with what it knows. There have been enough things starting to filter out that seem to indicate that this stuff was semi-common rumor in the area that there was a coverup either implicitly or explicitly. The outrage is driven in part by these possibilities, which do not seem particularly far fetched given their apparent sources (Penn State alums famous in football, etc.).

If some people are intent on 'harming' McQueary (silencing him, and implicitly sending a silencing signal to anyone else that might testify) then it makes those other rumors seem a little more realistic. Do you feel/think any differently about this than you did Saturday evening or whenever you first heard things?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:33 pm

BisonHurdler wrote:
Dutra wrote:If you wish to attach the moniker "the guy" to Joe Paterno....the entirety of Penn State Football then so be it. It's incredibly naive.


You must be privy to some alternate definition of the word of which I am unaware. You're grinding a very strange axe here.

Dutra's post is too cryptic for me because I can't figure out what he's getting at either. For one thing, you didn't use "the guy" to refer to Paterno in you previous post. And another thing, so what if you did? What's the point?
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby Conor Dary » Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:47 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
Dutra wrote:Paterno was the football program. . . . He was the top of the chain and chose to do very little with it. It was his job to find out what was going on.


Let me see, Sandusky was no longer a coach with the school, nor had been since 1999. Had access to the university but was not part of the football program, not an employee, not a coach . . for 3 years running at that time. Paterno heard something was amiss and took it to the person who was responsible for an incident like this. Sandusky was someone who was no longer under his charge.

Dutra wrote:If you don't think there was enough smoke to have Joe make a better effort to figure it out then you are naive.


I never said that Joe could not have done better. I said I could feel sympathy for him in making a mistake in judgment for someone who may have been a close friend. If he knew a rape occurred then I believe he should and WOULD have done more. I don't believe he knew the full gravity of the situation. If he did know and did nothing, then shame on him and he deserves the wrath people are giving him.

The simple fact is the grand jury "evidence" that McQueary gave was not the same "evidence" that Paterno gave. The actions subsequent to this meeting seem to me to favor more of what Joe said than McQueary. McQueary does nothing though he had more information than anyone, allegedly. Paterno takes what he knows to his supervisor, and the person that had the authority for handling the situation for the university. In my opinion, if Paterno knew the gravity of what was going on he would have done more, not cover it up.

I think Sandusky probably convinced him there was a misunderstanding of what McQueary saw and Paterno mistakenly believed him and did not follow up enough, though he did report the incident.

I never have said that he did not have fault or shared blame. I simply do not choose to crucify someone before all facts are known. You think you know all the facts, I don't. I think there is plenty more to come to light and that McQueary has not been forthright in all he has said, in part based on his actions and the actions of others after the incident. I may be naive, so may you. One thing is clear, you are certainly much more vindictive than I am.

And, in response to a later post, I have no close ties to Paterno, I am not a fan of Penn State. I was hoping he would retire anyway. I am simply unwilling to go along with the rest of the media driven sheep to castigate him. Many of you appear to believe he is bad as Sandusky and should be treated the same. Even Sandusky deserves his day in court.


I think you have been watching too much 'media victim' coverage on Fox news.
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:05 pm

Conor Dary wrote:I think you have been watching too much 'media victim' coverage on Fox news.

:lol:
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Re: Penn State/State Pen [split]

Postby polevaultpower » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:05 pm

If this rumor ends up being true, this ugly story could get even uglier: http://phillysportsdaily.com/college/20 ... -out-kids/
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