LHC


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Re: LHC

Postby bambam » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:18 am

I think JRM is referring to #11 as his own paper - author is JR Mureika.
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Re: LHC

Postby Pego » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:40 am

bambam wrote:I think JRM is referring to #11 as his own paper - author is JR Mureika.


Yes.
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:27 pm

JRM wrote:Here's a link to the journal issue (Physics Letters B) in which the official discovery announcement papers from the ATLAS and CMS Collaborations are published (p 1-29 for ATLAS, and p 30-61 for CMS). Also, scroll down and check out paper #11 in the issue's Astrophysics and Cosmology section (p 171-176)!

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/jo ... 2693/716/1


By the way. look at the length of the authors list; the 19th author has a name starting with Ad and they are all alphabetical.
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:39 pm

26mi235 wrote:
JRM wrote:Here's a link to the journal issue (Physics Letters B) in which the official discovery announcement papers from the ATLAS and CMS Collaborations are published (p 1-29 for ATLAS, and p 30-61 for CMS). Also, scroll down and check out paper #11 in the issue's Astrophysics and Cosmology section (p 171-176)!

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/jo ... 2693/716/1


By the way. look at the length of the authors list; the 19th author has a name starting with Ad and they are all alphabetical.



It's also not uncommon for those international collaborations to have authors who are posthumously listed (and I believe there are several in that list). In fact, the entire author listing goes on for at least 10 pages.
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:46 am

JRM wrote:In fact, the entire author listing goes on for at least 10 pages.

Publish or perish!
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Re: LHC

Postby tandfman » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:49 am

JRM wrote: In fact, the entire author listing goes on for at least 10 pages.

Sounds like movie credits. :)
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:34 am

tandfman wrote:
JRM wrote: In fact, the entire author listing goes on for at least 10 pages.

Sounds like movie credits. :)


Here what the ATLAS paper look like:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.7214

The author list starts at page 25. The paper also has the following dedication:

"This paper is dedicated to the memory of our ATLAS colleagues who did not live to see the full impact and significance of their contributions to the experiment."
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:08 pm

JRM wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
JRM wrote:Here's a link to the journal issue (Physics Letters B) in which the official discovery announcement papers from the ATLAS and CMS Collaborations are published (p 1-29 for ATLAS, and p 30-61 for CMS). Also, scroll down and check out paper #11 in the issue's Astrophysics and Cosmology section (p 171-176)!

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/jo ... 2693/716/1


By the way. look at the length of the authors list; the 19th author has a name starting with Ad and they are all alphabetical.



It's also not uncommon for those international collaborations to have authors who are posthumously listed (and I believe there are several in that list). In fact, the entire author listing goes on for at least 10 pages.


My article in Nature had ten authors, and I thought that that was a lot. Yes, I am aware of the issues in big experimental setups, so I am not surprised by that long list.
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:59 am

Results not kind to Super Symmetry. Commentary from JRM needed here for perspective?

The new observation, reported at the Hadron Collider Physics conference in Kyoto, is not consistent with many of the most likely models of SUSY.

Prof Chris Parke, who is the spokesperson for the UK Participation in the LHCb experiment, told BBC News: "Supersymmetry may not be dead but these latest results have certainly put it into hospital."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20300100
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:38 am

26mi235 wrote:Results not kind to Super Symmetry. Commentary from JRM needed here for perspective?

The new observation, reported at the Hadron Collider Physics conference in Kyoto, is not consistent with many of the most likely models of SUSY.



Their results suggest that the decays of B0-mesons (neutral particles made of quark - anti-quark pairs of varying flavor) decay to lighter particles (muon and anti-muon) in a fashion consistent with the Standard Model. The bad thing is the statistics of the decay rates (called branching ratios) is what strongly constraints Supersymmetry. That is, supersymmetry predicts a rate they're decidedly not seeing. So, good for Standard Model, bad for Supersymmetry.

That being said, my contacts at CERN inform me that LHCb is stretching the stats a bit, and not to put too much faith in the "sensationalist" press release.
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:37 am

JRM wrote:(neutral particles made of quark - anti-quark pairs of varying flavor) decay to lighter particles (muon and anti-muon)

So I'm reading wiki . . .

There is considerable speculation as to why the observable universe is apparently composed almost entirely of matter (as opposed to a mixture of matter and antimatter), whether there exist other places that are almost entirely composed of antimatter . . .

I'm imagining an anti-universe where left is right, down is up . . . :wink:
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:49 pm

Marlow wrote:
There is considerable speculation as to why the observable universe is apparently composed almost entirely of matter (as opposed to a mixture of matter and antimatter), whether there exist other places that are almost entirely composed of antimatter . . .

I'm imagining an anti-universe where left is right, down is up . . . :wink:


Well, yes and no. Anti-matter does exist in our region of the universe. In fact, high-energy cosmic ray positrons (i.e. anti-electrons) shoot through your body every day. We can also readily manufacture anti-matter in the laboratory, e.g. at CERN. Anti-particles have the opposite properties of their particle counterparts, but those are PARTICLE properties: the two most common are spin and chirality (so, in a sense, right IS left for anti-matter).

But technically, mass is not included: anti-matter has positive mass, and feels gravity the same way normal mass does. Now, in other cases, you can have negative energy particles, but those can't exist for more time than the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle allows (i.e. they're not around long enough for you to see them).

If you want to go full-weird, however, you can adopt Richard Feynman's interpretation of anti-particles: they are negative-energy (negative mass) particles that travel backward in time!
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:11 pm

JRM wrote:1. high-energy cosmic ray positrons (i.e. anti-electrons) shoot through your body every day.
2. they're not around long enough for you to see them.
3. anti-particles: they are negative-energy (negative mass) particles that travel backward in time!

1. I wondered what that tingling sensation was!
2. um . . . then how do we know . . . never mind
3. What happens when they get back to the Big Bang?! :shock:
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:19 pm

[quote="Marlow"
3. What happens when they get back to the Big Bang?! :shock:[/quote]

Given what 'Dark Energy' does, it seems like there will be no return to the Big Bang in the future (it is never coming back together in a point), if that is what you meant.

If you meant what it looks like when you look back far enough, there is no really looking back passed about 300,000 from BB because the radiation was dominant and it was all a haze.
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:29 pm

Oh dear!

yahoo news wrote:Collisions between particles inside the Large Hadron Collider atom smasher have created what looks like a new form of matter. The new kind of matter is called color-glass condensate, and is a liquidlike wave of gluons, which are elementary particles related to the strong force that sticks quarks together inside protons and neutrons (hence they are like "glue").
In this case, the collisions create what's called quark-gluon plasma — a superhot soup of particles similar to the state of the universe just after the Big Bang.


We're messin' wid stuff we might shouldn't! :wink:
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:02 pm

OK, watch this movie. Do not look at any info about it until you have seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-NwLUPZWZc

I comes from some LHC/physics people, low-budget for sure, but better than most.
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Re: LHC

Postby Pego » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:10 pm

I think this is really witty.


Heisenberg and Schrödinger are speeding in a car and get pulled over.
Heisenberg is in the driver's seat, so the officer asks him, "Do you know
how fast you were going?" Heisenberg replies, "No, but I know exactly where
I am!"
The officer looks at him confused and says, "You were going 108 miles per
hour!"
Heisenberg throws his arms up and cries, "Great! Now I'm lost!"
The officer, now more confused and frustrated, orders the men outside of
the car, and proceeds to inspect the vehicle. He opens the trunk and yells
at the two men, "Hey! Did you guys know you have a dead cat back here?"
Schrödinger angrily yells back, "Well, we do now!"
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:22 pm

Pego wrote:I think this is really witty.


Heisenberg and Schrödinger are speeding in a car and get pulled over.
Heisenberg is in the driver's seat, so the officer asks him, "Do you know
how fast you were going?" Heisenberg replies, "No, but I know exactly where
I am!"
The officer looks at him confused and says, "You were going 108 miles per
hour!"
Heisenberg throws his arms up and cries, "Great! Now I'm lost!"
The officer, now more confused and frustrated, orders the men outside of
the car, and proceeds to inspect the vehicle. He opens the trunk and yells
at the two men, "Hey! Did you guys know you have a dead cat back here?"
Schrödinger angrily yells back, "Well, we do now!"


:lol: Awesome. Can't believe I haven't heard that before.
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Re: LHC

Postby bambam » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:16 pm

Perhaps my all-time favorite bumper sticker:

Heisenberg May Have Slept Here
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Re: LHC

Postby kuha » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:03 pm

JRM wrote:
Pego wrote:I think this is really witty.


Heisenberg and Schrödinger are speeding in a car and get pulled over.
Heisenberg is in the driver's seat, so the officer asks him, "Do you know
how fast you were going?" Heisenberg replies, "No, but I know exactly where
I am!"
The officer looks at him confused and says, "You were going 108 miles per
hour!"
Heisenberg throws his arms up and cries, "Great! Now I'm lost!"
The officer, now more confused and frustrated, orders the men outside of
the car, and proceeds to inspect the vehicle. He opens the trunk and yells
at the two men, "Hey! Did you guys know you have a dead cat back here?"
Schrödinger angrily yells back, "Well, we do now!"


:lol: Awesome. Can't believe I haven't heard that before.


Yes, this is pretty great. Thanks!
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ITER

Postby Quick Silver » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:55 pm

This thread has been a bit quiet since the fall. Perhaps I can reactivate it by asking what's up with the ITER (the pilot fusion reactor)? Weren't they supposed to be installing the kit by now?

Quick Silver
Hong Kong
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:54 pm

Peter Woit and Matt Strassler both have interesting and generally accessible blogs on the physics. Both are somewhat dubious on string theory and supersymmetry.

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/

http://profmattstrassler.com/

added 3/16 Both, but especially MS have discussions because of the updating of the results from the LHC, which seem to continue (even more over time) to affirm the SM (Standard Model) and show nothing of numerous extensions or alterations.
Last edited by 26mi235 on Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ITER

Postby JRM » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:09 pm

Quick Silver wrote:This thread has been a bit quiet since the fall. Perhaps I can reactivate it by asking what's up with the ITER (the pilot fusion reactor)? Weren't they supposed to be installing the kit by now?

Quick Silver
Hong Kong


I can't say a lot about the progress of this project. It is unrelated to the LHC. Fusion as a returnable energy source has been problematic for decades. It would be nice to see some breakthroughs on that front, but it will require significant advances in engineering, more than physics. On paper, no-cost fusion is easy. In practice... not so much.
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:26 am

Almost 50 years in the making! The 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics has been awarded to Peter Higgs and Francois Englert for proposing the mechanism by which select particles acquire mass (named the Higgs Mechanism... poor Englert). The researchers independently derived the process in 1964.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... in-physics

For those who have institutional library access, you can download their original papers here:

http://prl.aps.org/edannounce/2013-nobe ... letter2013

Note that Higgs' paper is only two pages long, which Englert's is 2.5 (he had a co-author, Robert Brout, who passed away in 2011 -- I guess they don't award these posthumously).
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Re: LHC

Postby El Toro » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:48 am

JRM wrote:I guess they don't award these posthumously).


Absolutely correct. Also one of the reasons that the x-ray diffraction work of Rosalind Franklin was not considered when awarding the prize for discovery of the structure of DNA. She had died four years before the award went to Crick, Watson and Wilkins. Also, three is the maximum number of recipients, so don't be the fourth wheel in your major discovery, JRM. Just in case, you know. :D
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Re: LHC

Postby gh » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:17 am

you mean the guy who posited that a wagon works better with a fourth wheel instead of just three never got one either?
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:41 am

El Toro wrote:Also, three is the maximum number of recipients, so don't be the fourth wheel in your major discovery, JRM. Just in case, you know. :D


That's why I only work with people whose last names start with N-Z. 8-)
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Re: LHC

Postby gh » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:51 pm

the 9th most expensive object in the world.

http://www.gizmocrazed.com/2010/09/top- ... the-world/
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:15 pm

gh wrote:most expensive object in the world.

or, in this case, out of this world. I'm all gung-ho for space exploration, but are we really getting our 157 BILLION dollars worth out of the Intl Space Station?! :shock:
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:50 pm

Marlow wrote:but are we really getting our 157 BILLION dollars worth out of the Intl Space Station?! :shock:


See my emphasis above. ISS stands for International Space Station. It's not all "our" investment.... unless by "our" you mean "humankind."

And to answer your question: yes, we're absolutely getting its worth in return. Where else do you propose we study the effects of extended spaceflight on humans, as a prelude to expanding out into the solar system? (or providing a place for Chris Hadfield to make the world's first zero-G music video).
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:48 pm

Lots of comments on leaving out the mainly American team of Gerald Guralnik, Tom Kibble and Carl Hagen. Some Euro-centric bias has been asserted by some. Of course, the limit of three means only one of these could be selected.

Others thought the (6000?) experimenters should be recognized, but there were two teams and even taking the (rotating!) leaders would lead to four.

Finally, Anderson (who helped kill the Superconducting Super Collider in Texas in 1993) also developed key elements [coming from superconductivity]. However, he already has his own Nobel for superconductivity...
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:15 am

26mi235 wrote:Lots of comments on leaving out the mainly American team of Gerald Guralnik, Tom Kibble and Carl Hagen. Some Euro-centric bias has been asserted by some. Of course, the limit of three means only one of these could be selected.


Ernst Stuckelberg is probably one of the earliest people to have worked on the idea of gauge symmetry breaking and mass generation (from 1938). Although one could argue that this isn't really the Higgs mechanism, because it is applied to the wrong type of particle.

Others thought the (6000?) experimenters should be recognized, but there were two teams and even taking the (rotating!) leaders would lead to four.


That would have been interesting, since the current director of the CMS experiment is a colleague of mine. I've never known a Nobel Laureate personally! For a bunch of reasons, though, this path would have been quite complicated and unwieldy for the award.

Finally, Anderson (who helped kill the Superconducting Super Collider in Texas in 1993) also developed key elements [coming from superconductivity]. However, he already has his own Nobel for superconductivity...


Anderson's case is a strange one. He published a paper on it in 1963, one year before Englert and Brout's paper (which itself preceded Higg's paper by a few months). Since Anderson and E&B both worked in condensed matter physics (superconductivity) and knew each other, it was a mystery why E&B's paper didn't even mention Anderson's.
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Re: LHC

Postby mcgato » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:23 pm

mcgato wrote:My recent alumni magazine had an article on one of the spokesmen for the Higgs boson project, who got his PhD from U of Chicago, where I got my undergrad degree. It turns out my one year stint as a physics lab tech was spent helping out on his project that would make up his PhD. I haven't been following the Higgs boson project too closely though.
CNN has an article on Joe Incandela, who I was referring to here. I will thusly post a link.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/14/tech/inno ... ?hpt=hp_c3
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Re: LHC

Postby El Toro » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:36 am

Spotted on the interwebs...

So, a Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church and the priest says, "get out, we don't want your type here!"

The Higgs boson replies, "But without me, how can you have Mass?"
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Re: LHC

Postby bambam » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:29 am

El Toro wrote:Spotted on the interwebs...

So, a Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church and the priest says, "get out, we don't want your type here!"

The Higgs boson replies, "But without me, how can you have Mass?"


I love that!
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Re: LHC

Postby gh » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:29 am

Almost as funny as when I posted it on the first page of this thread in July of 2012 :mrgreen:
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:34 am

Survey of Exotic Decays of the Higgs -- that is, ones that might be not under the Standard Model.

http://profmattstrassler.com/2013/12/19 ... s-is-done/

..this is a paper that examines a wide class of possible decays that our newly found Higgs particle might exhibit, but that would not occur if the Standard Model of particle physics (the equations we use to describe the known elementary particles and forces plus the simplest possible type of Higgs particle) were all there was to see at the Large Hadron Collider [LHC], the giant proton-proton collider outside of Geneva, Switzerland.


[Non-experts; sorry, but this paper was written for experts, and probably has a minimum of two words of jargon per sentence. I promise you a summary soon.]
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:37 am

Y'know, I was just telling my Quantum Mechanist friend the other day, "The "three forces" can be described as a combination of three Unitary Gauge Groups usually denoted as SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1). SU(3) describes strong interactions with (32-1) = 8 associated massless gauge fields (Gluons) U(1) alone describes electromagnetic interactions with its single massless gauge boson (photon) SU(2) alone does NOT describe weak interactions instead, the mixing of SU(2)xU(1) is necessary to describe electroweak interactions the massless gauge bosons of weak interactions acquire mass by their interaction with a scalar field (the Higgs Field) resulting in a single massless gauge boson (photon as above) 3 (non-zero mass) intermediate vector bosons (W+, W- & Z0) Hence the current model of the mediators of electroweak interactions."
He agreed.
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Re: LHC

Postby lonewolf » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:34 am

Thanks for clearing that up. :?
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Re: LHC

Postby El Toro » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:28 pm

gh wrote:Almost as funny as when I posted it on the first page of this thread in July of 2012 :mrgreen:

The embarrassing thing is that I actually checked first! :oops:
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