LHC


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

ITER

Postby Quick Silver » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:55 pm

This thread has been a bit quiet since the fall. Perhaps I can reactivate it by asking what's up with the ITER (the pilot fusion reactor)? Weren't they supposed to be installing the kit by now?

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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:54 pm

Peter Woit and Matt Strassler both have interesting and generally accessible blogs on the physics. Both are somewhat dubious on string theory and supersymmetry.

http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/

http://profmattstrassler.com/

added 3/16 Both, but especially MS have discussions because of the updating of the results from the LHC, which seem to continue (even more over time) to affirm the SM (Standard Model) and show nothing of numerous extensions or alterations.
Last edited by 26mi235 on Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ITER

Postby JRM » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:09 pm

Quick Silver wrote:This thread has been a bit quiet since the fall. Perhaps I can reactivate it by asking what's up with the ITER (the pilot fusion reactor)? Weren't they supposed to be installing the kit by now?

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I can't say a lot about the progress of this project. It is unrelated to the LHC. Fusion as a returnable energy source has been problematic for decades. It would be nice to see some breakthroughs on that front, but it will require significant advances in engineering, more than physics. On paper, no-cost fusion is easy. In practice... not so much.
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:26 am

Almost 50 years in the making! The 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics has been awarded to Peter Higgs and Francois Englert for proposing the mechanism by which select particles acquire mass (named the Higgs Mechanism... poor Englert). The researchers independently derived the process in 1964.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... in-physics

For those who have institutional library access, you can download their original papers here:

http://prl.aps.org/edannounce/2013-nobe ... letter2013

Note that Higgs' paper is only two pages long, which Englert's is 2.5 (he had a co-author, Robert Brout, who passed away in 2011 -- I guess they don't award these posthumously).
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Re: LHC

Postby El Toro » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:48 am

JRM wrote:I guess they don't award these posthumously).


Absolutely correct. Also one of the reasons that the x-ray diffraction work of Rosalind Franklin was not considered when awarding the prize for discovery of the structure of DNA. She had died four years before the award went to Crick, Watson and Wilkins. Also, three is the maximum number of recipients, so don't be the fourth wheel in your major discovery, JRM. Just in case, you know. :D
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Re: LHC

Postby gh » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:17 am

you mean the guy who posited that a wagon works better with a fourth wheel instead of just three never got one either?
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:41 am

El Toro wrote:Also, three is the maximum number of recipients, so don't be the fourth wheel in your major discovery, JRM. Just in case, you know. :D


That's why I only work with people whose last names start with N-Z. 8-)
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Re: LHC

Postby gh » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:51 pm

the 9th most expensive object in the world.

http://www.gizmocrazed.com/2010/09/top- ... the-world/
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:15 pm

gh wrote:most expensive object in the world.

or, in this case, out of this world. I'm all gung-ho for space exploration, but are we really getting our 157 BILLION dollars worth out of the Intl Space Station?! :shock:
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:50 pm

Marlow wrote:but are we really getting our 157 BILLION dollars worth out of the Intl Space Station?! :shock:


See my emphasis above. ISS stands for International Space Station. It's not all "our" investment.... unless by "our" you mean "humankind."

And to answer your question: yes, we're absolutely getting its worth in return. Where else do you propose we study the effects of extended spaceflight on humans, as a prelude to expanding out into the solar system? (or providing a place for Chris Hadfield to make the world's first zero-G music video).
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:48 pm

Lots of comments on leaving out the mainly American team of Gerald Guralnik, Tom Kibble and Carl Hagen. Some Euro-centric bias has been asserted by some. Of course, the limit of three means only one of these could be selected.

Others thought the (6000?) experimenters should be recognized, but there were two teams and even taking the (rotating!) leaders would lead to four.

Finally, Anderson (who helped kill the Superconducting Super Collider in Texas in 1993) also developed key elements [coming from superconductivity]. However, he already has his own Nobel for superconductivity...
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Re: LHC

Postby JRM » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:15 am

26mi235 wrote:Lots of comments on leaving out the mainly American team of Gerald Guralnik, Tom Kibble and Carl Hagen. Some Euro-centric bias has been asserted by some. Of course, the limit of three means only one of these could be selected.


Ernst Stuckelberg is probably one of the earliest people to have worked on the idea of gauge symmetry breaking and mass generation (from 1938). Although one could argue that this isn't really the Higgs mechanism, because it is applied to the wrong type of particle.

Others thought the (6000?) experimenters should be recognized, but there were two teams and even taking the (rotating!) leaders would lead to four.


That would have been interesting, since the current director of the CMS experiment is a colleague of mine. I've never known a Nobel Laureate personally! For a bunch of reasons, though, this path would have been quite complicated and unwieldy for the award.

Finally, Anderson (who helped kill the Superconducting Super Collider in Texas in 1993) also developed key elements [coming from superconductivity]. However, he already has his own Nobel for superconductivity...


Anderson's case is a strange one. He published a paper on it in 1963, one year before Englert and Brout's paper (which itself preceded Higg's paper by a few months). Since Anderson and E&B both worked in condensed matter physics (superconductivity) and knew each other, it was a mystery why E&B's paper didn't even mention Anderson's.
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Re: LHC

Postby mcgato » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:23 pm

mcgato wrote:My recent alumni magazine had an article on one of the spokesmen for the Higgs boson project, who got his PhD from U of Chicago, where I got my undergrad degree. It turns out my one year stint as a physics lab tech was spent helping out on his project that would make up his PhD. I haven't been following the Higgs boson project too closely though.
CNN has an article on Joe Incandela, who I was referring to here. I will thusly post a link.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/14/tech/inno ... ?hpt=hp_c3
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Re: LHC

Postby El Toro » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:36 am

Spotted on the interwebs...

So, a Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church and the priest says, "get out, we don't want your type here!"

The Higgs boson replies, "But without me, how can you have Mass?"
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Re: LHC

Postby bambam » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:29 am

El Toro wrote:Spotted on the interwebs...

So, a Higgs boson walks into a Catholic church and the priest says, "get out, we don't want your type here!"

The Higgs boson replies, "But without me, how can you have Mass?"


I love that!
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Re: LHC

Postby gh » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:29 am

Almost as funny as when I posted it on the first page of this thread in July of 2012 :mrgreen:
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:34 am

Survey of Exotic Decays of the Higgs -- that is, ones that might be not under the Standard Model.

http://profmattstrassler.com/2013/12/19 ... s-is-done/

..this is a paper that examines a wide class of possible decays that our newly found Higgs particle might exhibit, but that would not occur if the Standard Model of particle physics (the equations we use to describe the known elementary particles and forces plus the simplest possible type of Higgs particle) were all there was to see at the Large Hadron Collider [LHC], the giant proton-proton collider outside of Geneva, Switzerland.


[Non-experts; sorry, but this paper was written for experts, and probably has a minimum of two words of jargon per sentence. I promise you a summary soon.]
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:37 am

Y'know, I was just telling my Quantum Mechanist friend the other day, "The "three forces" can be described as a combination of three Unitary Gauge Groups usually denoted as SU(3)xSU(2)xU(1). SU(3) describes strong interactions with (32-1) = 8 associated massless gauge fields (Gluons) U(1) alone describes electromagnetic interactions with its single massless gauge boson (photon) SU(2) alone does NOT describe weak interactions instead, the mixing of SU(2)xU(1) is necessary to describe electroweak interactions the massless gauge bosons of weak interactions acquire mass by their interaction with a scalar field (the Higgs Field) resulting in a single massless gauge boson (photon as above) 3 (non-zero mass) intermediate vector bosons (W+, W- & Z0) Hence the current model of the mediators of electroweak interactions."
He agreed.
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Re: LHC

Postby lonewolf » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:34 am

Thanks for clearing that up. :?
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Re: LHC

Postby El Toro » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:28 pm

gh wrote:Almost as funny as when I posted it on the first page of this thread in July of 2012 :mrgreen:

The embarrassing thing is that I actually checked first! :oops:
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Re: LHC

Postby gh » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:04 am

and now, starring in its own movie, the Higgs Boson!

(nominated for best assistant actor, CERN)

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/P ... 314481.php
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:46 am

Here's my "this-gives-me-a-headache' question:

Howe can it be possible that the Big Bang created space-time (i.e., there was no time before the BB because there was no space-time) when, in order for the BB to even occur, it needed to exist in space-time (i.e., only nothing can exist in nothing, and the BB was 'something')?
Alternately, how could the the BB have created space-time AND matter/energy simultaneously without a 'cause'? Or . . oh dear . . . will the Unified Field Theory discover that space-time AND matter/energy are one and the same??!!
I need to lie down.
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:33 am

Beginning, Inflation, Big Bang. Go read the pieces by Strassler I gave at the beginning of the thread.
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:40 am

26mi235 wrote:Beginning, Inflation, Big Bang. Go read the pieces by Strassler I gave at the beginning of the thread.

Give me a 2-sentence recap. Somebody famous once said that if you can't explain something in 2 sentences, you don't really understand it yourself. :twisted:
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Re: LHC

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:31 pm

Marlow wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Beginning, Inflation, Big Bang. Go read the pieces by Strassler I gave at the beginning of the thread.

Give me a 2-sentence recap. Somebody famous once said that if you can't explain something in 2 sentences, you don't really understand it yourself. :twisted:


Feynman's famously said, in reply to a similar question, if he could do that it would not be worth a Nobel Prize. The comment is relevant here.
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Re: LHC

Postby Marlow » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:23 pm

26mi235 wrote: if he could do that it would not be worth a Nobel Prize. The comment is relevant here.

There's no Nobel on the line here . . .
Here's my summary of a Nobel Laureate's best book:
Some kids get stranded on an island without adults and degenerate into raw ids; the fat one gets it, and the good one is saved deus ex machina.
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Re: LHC

Postby lonewolf » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:26 pm

I an not concerned that I do not understand all this space/time/BB stuff when I do not even understand all the permutations of the offside rule. :?
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