Alberto Contador Fails Drug Test

[IanS_Liv]

I thought the original objection to blood doping was that it was using artificial means to enhance your oxygen uptake. Obviously it's your own blood, but it's been taken at a different part of the training cycle and a blood transfer is a medical procedure. I also thought that there was a risk of infection during the transfer process, as there is with any needle/IV procedure. I must confess that whenever I hear of endurance athletes having 'mystery unexplained viruses', I usually think they've either got a minor cold, or their blood-doping's gone wrong. Cynical, moi? Or maybe those illnesses came about by using someone else's blood?

I'll admit to complete ignorance of the auto-transfusion process that Pego is talking about that he considers safe. My medical knowledge is a mere speck of sand compared to Pego's sandcastle.

[jazzcyclist]

Is there a danger from this practice?

I certainly cannot think of any, unlike EPO, which could be dangerous. Anybody can be autotransfused safely and quite cheaply. I am yet to hear a convincing argument against legalizing it.

I agree. Why would a man-made product like creatine be legal and your own blood be illegal?

[guru]

Is there a danger from this practice?

I certainly cannot think of any, unlike EPO, which could be dangerous. Anybody can be autotransfused safely and quite cheaply. I am yet to hear a convincing argument against legalizing it.

Potential negative effects of blood doping, via wiki -

The simple act of increasing the number of (red blood cells) in the bloodstream makes blood thicker, which can also make it clot more readily. This increases the chances of heart attack, stroke, and pulmonary embolism, which has been seen in cases where there is too much blood reintroduced into the blood stream.

Blood contamination during preparation or storage is another issue. Contamination was seen in 1 in every 500,000 transfusions of RBC in 2002. Blood contamination can lead to sepsis or an infection that affects the whole body.

[Pego]

Obviously, nothing is 100% safe, not even stepping off your bed. Autotransfusion of small amounts (less than 1/2 L should be sufficient for athletic purposes) carries virtually no risks of increased coagulopathy. Done under a blood bank conditions, contamination is also highly unlikely. Stats listed in Wiki clearly apply to allo-, not autotransfusion. A world of difference.

[guru]

Turning circulating blood into sludge probably not recommended, whether it's your own blood cells going in or not.

[Pego]

Turning circulating blood into sludge probably not recommended, whether it's your own blood cells going in or not.

Nonsense like calling a small amount of autotransfusion "sludge" turns a reasoned debate into a screaming exchange. Your antiscience tendencies surface again.

[guru]

Turning circulating blood into sludge probably not recommended, whether it's your own blood cells going in or not.

Nonsense like calling a small amount of autotransfusion "sludge" turns a reasoned debate into a screaming exchange. Your antiscientific tendencies surface again.

If you consider a 20% increase in RBC(standard operating procedure in a doping infusion) a "small amount" then you are correct that we have nothing to discuss.

[Pego]

What does 20% mean? RBC's increase by 1 million? Hematocrit by 10? Over 60%? Hemoglobin by 3 gm%? Is that what you are saying?

One more thing. List a case of an athlete hurt by autotransfusion. Not allo-, not EPO, auto only. That is the one we are discussing.

[guru]

What does 20% mean?

RBC count.

[odelltrclan]

I believe that the athletes should abide by the rules that are and were created and therefore if they cheat and get caught then they deserve it. I just wonder about the wisdom of the rules in situations like the TDF.

An event like the TDF or the Giro or Tour of Spain, any of these major tours seem to me to have become unnatural events. Doing the equivalent of nearly 20 marathons in 3 weeks must have some very dangerous and unhealthy effects on the body and it just seems to me like being able to store your own blood and reusing it in a trauma situation like this should be available if safe.

I wonder if it is actually safer for athletes for their short and long-term health to use EPO and especially their own blood when doing what seemingly would be an unnatural event on the human body such as the TDF. If it is safer, are we, as fans of the sport, exploiting these athletes by denying them the opportunity to do such events as safely as possible?

[26mi235]

The evidence now seems to be more substantial, with traces of material that could be from bags used for transfusion.

Cycling has long constrained hemotacrit (sp?) levels, in part as a symptom of doping. One issue with legal auto-infusion is that it brings in a legal method that would confuse the detection of having taken other drugs.

While some are complaining that all cyclists are doping (rather extreme statement, clearly not what he meant -- e.g., most are) it seems to me that the degree of doping has diminished which is a significant benefit as regards doping. I also appears that it has led to very close monitoring of the riders health details, which is also good, even if it is for purposes of fine-tuning constrained doping.

[El Toro]

The evidence now seems to be more substantial, with traces of material that could be from bags used for transfusion.

As Contador's team doctor, I can say hand on heart, that the residual chemicals came from a saline drip bag that has the same composition as a blood bag. As saline drips are not illegal according to WADA, please refrain from making any drug related assertion related to this information.........

[Pego]

What does 20% mean?

RBC count.

Where could I look up your reference? 1 unit of transfusion is less than 10% of circulating volume. An increase to exceed 6 mil. seems unrealistic. What is important for circulation is the hematocrit. How high does that go according to your sources?

[Pego]

I believe that the athletes should abide by the rules that are and were created and therefore if they cheat and get caught then they deserve it. I just wonder about the wisdom of the rules in situations like the TDF.

An event like the TDF or the Giro or Tour of Spain, any of these major tours seem to me to have become unnatural events. Doing the equivalent of nearly 20 marathons in 3 weeks must have some very dangerous and unhealthy effects on the body and it just seems to me like being able to store your own blood and reusing it in a trauma situation like this should be available if safe.

I wonder if it is actually safer for athletes for their short and long-term health to use EPO and especially their own blood when doing what seemingly would be an unnatural event on the human body such as the TDF. If it is safer, are we, as fans of the sport, exploiting these athletes by denying them the opportunity to do such events as safely as possible?

I fully agree.

[guru]

1 unit of transfusion is less than 10% of circulating volume. An increase to exceed 6 mil. seems unrealistic.

Blood is not simply removed and returned. It centrifuged to remove red blood cells, which are then packed and reinfused.

[Pego]

1 unit of transfusion is less than 10% of circulating volume. An increase to exceed 6 mil. seems unrealistic.

Blood is not simply removed and returned. It centrifuged to remove red blood cells, which are then packed and reinfused.

I know that. Could you give me your source of information that you quoted earlier?

[guru]

1 unit of transfusion is less than 10% of circulating volume. An increase to exceed 6 mil. seems unrealistic.

Blood is not simply removed and returned. It centrifuged to remove red blood cells, which are then packed and reinfused.

I know that. Could you give me your source of information that you quoted earlier?

The 20% number is something I've known as a general rule of thumb regarding this procedure, not something I actually looked up. I'm sure it can be googled from any number of places, though of course will be more or less depending on a specific athlete.


Ok, here's a study I found that actually was done at higher increases than my generic 20%. It may well be that, in actual practice, my number was conservative.

http://www.gamow.com/igorweb/research/doping.html


Here's another detailing the procedure. Up to four units are drawn.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Blood-Doping- ... &id=160863

[Pego]

These numbers are horrible and I would never agree to this methodology. I am talking about reasonable transfusions of 500-750 ml at the most. 2 liters ! Those levels of hemoglobin/hematocrit do border on dangerous.

This just confirms my position that making something illegal pushes the whole process in the back alleys, from the professional, conscionable hematologists to irresponsible charlatans.

[26mi235]

delted

[El Toro]

It does seem interesting that his team doctor has 600+ posts on the track and field news board. I have also followed cycling, as I was a more successful cyclist than runner but nothing like being a pro, especially at the level the sport is now, as opposed to 30 years ago when I raced USCF in the US while in grad school.

I post here because Contador also posts here. You may know him as..........Pego

[SQUACKEE]

It does seem interesting that his team doctor has 600+ posts on the track and field news board. I have also followed cycling, as I was a more successful cyclist than runner but nothing like being a pro, especially at the level the sport is now, as opposed to 30 years ago when I raced USCF in the US while in grad school.

I post here because Contador also posts here. You may know him as..........Pego

Well then i might as well come clean, My real name is....... Lance Armstrong.

[guru]

WADA rejects Contador's excuse.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/39662367/ ... er_sports/

[26mi235]

I think that prior cases at CAS involved quantities more in keeping with doping, while Contador's may only be indicative of doping (e.g., transfusion with a bit of prior doping residual), which is where the indication of bag residues will hurt because it will make it more difficult to overcome the presumption of 'an adverse test result implies a doping offense'.

[tjallen]

Is this plasticizer exclusively linked to blood bags, or is it a typical plastics softener, also found in handlebar tape, seat cushions and foam, vinyl gloves, spandex shorts, or any of the other plastic that a modern bicycle rider is in constant, rubbing contact with? (Condoms, even?) We are surrounded by plastic, and plastic softeners. (ahem-really!)

That said, I always did think that Spanish steak tartare had a hint of bloodbag plasticizer to it. (nods to jhc68)

(btw, Abe Lincoln here, honestly.)

[guru]

Spanish federation issues one-year suspension to Contador, including stripping him of the 2010 Tour win.

http://www.universalsports.com/news/art ... 12774.html

[26mi235]

Not sure what is going to happen next. Given what the timing has been, the various parties appealing etc would keep him out of the racing business until about the end of August any way, so now he wants to do the Vuelta and the Vuelta wants him...

[guru]

Also, this would presumably make him ineligible for London, where he would likely be a favorite in the road time trial(4th in 2008). It will be interesting to see if he joins Merritt in challenging the IOC.

[jazzcyclist]

Also, this would presumably make him ineligible for London, where he would likely be a favorite in the road time trial(4th in 2008). It will be interesting to see if he joins Merritt in challenging the IOC.

I presume you're talking about the Olympics. Why would he be ineligible for a 2012 event if he's only been suspended for one year?

[guru]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/12012011/ ... -says.html

[bambam]

Also, this would presumably make him ineligible for London, where he would likely be a favorite in the road time trial(4th in 2008). It will be interesting to see if he joins Merritt in challenging the IOC.

I presume you're talking about the Olympics. Why would he be ineligible for a 2012 event if he's only been suspended for one year?

IOC has a new rule that anyone suspended for a doping positive is automatically ineligible for the next Olympics, even if there suspension by WADA has ended by then.

[gh]

To be precise, you have to have been banned for 6 months or more. Less than that and the rule doesn't apply.

[guru]

Right - that's why I posted that eurosport link in response to jazzcyclist.

[bambam]

To be precise, you have to have been banned for 6 months or more. Less than that and the rule doesn't apply.

True - ever hear of anyone banned for less than 6 months anymore?

[gh]

Jamaicans, the last two years.

[guru]

Welp, looks like Contador's going to fight

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/n ... id=6068044