Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies


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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:33 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:say they are outlawing hard hits

What do you think the penalty for "unnecessary roughness" is? There was no need for something vicious like that. All the blocker had to do was literally get in his way and the guy couldn't have made the tackle. You see that all the time in downfield blocks: guys just get in the way of would-be tacklers, so they can't catch the ball-carrier. The NFL is in its terminal stages if they can't rein in the injuries caused by head-hunters.

You sound like someone who never played football, because what you preaching goes against everything that's ingrained in football players from the time they're pewees. You're taught to arrive at the scene of impact as fast as you can and to deliver the hit with extreme prejudice, not calibrate your speed based on what you feel is necessary to avoid injuring your target. To do what you ask, we might as well put flags on the players and take the helmets and pads off.

Furthermore, there was no head-hunting by Tate on that play, all the impact was delivered to the chest area, straight out of the textbooks. I actually agree with eliiniating the head-hunting, but that's not what happened on this play. I have a very strong hunch that Goodell wouldn't be throwing around these silly fines if he had ever played football at any level. I hope enough players get tired of these fines to drag him back to court so that he gets his hand slapped by a judge AGAIN before he totally ruins the game.
:(
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Daisy » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:31 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:what you're preaching goes against everything that's ingrained in football players from the time they're pewees.

Interestingly, this is exactly why I have zero interest in american football.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:57 am

Daisy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:what you're preaching goes against everything that's ingrained in football players from the time they're pewees.

Interestingly, this is exactly why I have zero interest in american football.

I don't watch the pros any more (unless I get a ticket to the Jags game) and my interest in college is due to old school ties. Any game where the idea is to hurt your opponent unnecessarily is not sport. Boxing is on its way out and MMA/UFC is one horrific death away from severe regulation (it'll happen soon).
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Pego » Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:59 am

jazzcyclist wrote:You sound like someone who never played football, because what you preaching goes against everything that's ingrained in football players from the time they're pewees. You're taught to arrive at the scene of impact as fast as you can and to deliver the hit with extreme prejudice, not calibrate your speed based on what you feel is necessary to avoid injuring your target. To do what you ask, we might as well put flags on the players and take the helmets and pads off.


My grandson's 7th grade football season is just about one third done and my observation is that they discourage "unnecessary roughness" right from the start of those football careers. They penalize even "clean" hits when delivered more harsh than necessary to tackle the ball-carrier.

As far as the helmets are concerned, I believe that the current helmet is a major contributing factors to injuries. It should be restructured (softened) to protect the head without being a deadly weapon.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby j-a-m » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:13 am

Marlow wrote:Boxing is on its way out and MMA/UFC is one horrific death away from severe regulation (it'll happen soon).

Sorry to have to mention this here, but MMA is safer than pole vaulting. So with all due respect, Marlow, better be careful what you wish for. And professional MMA in the U.S. is rather heavily regulated as it is.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:55 am

j-a-m wrote:
Marlow wrote:Boxing is on its way out and MMA/UFC is one horrific death away from severe regulation (it'll happen soon).

Sorry to have to mention this here, but MMA is safer than pole vaulting. So with all due respect, Marlow, better be careful what you wish for. And professional MMA in the U.S. is rather heavily regulated as it is.

Red herring - no one is trying to injure anyone in PVing. Cheerleading has more injuries than PVing. MMA is NOT safer than PVing, just because there have been PV deaths.
MMA is a savage beat-down between consulting adults. As far as MMA regulation goes, the lack of protective padding and the fact that you can choke someone out, says all it needs to say.

That said, PVing has indeed been discontinued in some areas, as well it should be whenever unsafe conditions (or personnel) exist. I have 'cancelled' the event at away meets (when I withdraw my athletes, I ensure all athletes are stopped).
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby j-a-m » Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:18 am

Marlow wrote:the fact that you can choke someone out, says all it needs to say.

So I assume you're also opposed to the Olympic sport of judo then?
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:41 am

j-a-m wrote:
Marlow wrote:the fact that you can choke someone out, says all it needs to say.

So I assume you're also opposed to the Olympic sport of judo then?

Does the epithet of 'Olympic Sport' preclude criticism? If ckoking out your opponent is a viable tactic, yeah, I've got a problem with it. Is it something you'd recommend for your daughter? "Don't worry, honey, I'm sure she won't accidentally crush your trachea, even though that's kinda the object of the move."

[On the other hand, all three of my kids pole vaulted and now my 9-year-old grandson is doing it. Neither of my two sons ever wanted to try football. Not a word from my wife or me.]
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby j-a-m » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:37 am

Marlow wrote:even though that's kinda the object of the move."

No, it's not. The general difference is between air chokes (reducing air flow to the lungs) and blood chokes (reducing blood flow to the brain). Air chokes are the ones that pose the danger of injuring the trachea, while blood chokes are the ones that are used in MMA and judo.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby j-a-m » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:51 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I have a very strong hunch that Goodell wouldn't be throwing around these silly fines if he had ever played football at any level.

And the question also is, does Roger Goodell have too much power? It seems he can just arbitrarily determine fines and suspensions.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:29 am

j-a-m wrote:Blood chokes are the ones that are used in MMA and judo.

Oh, I feel so much better about it already. Not denying air to lungs, denying blood to the brain . . .
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby j-a-m » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:07 pm

Marlow wrote:Is it something you'd recommend for your daughter?

It's a fully legitimate sport, and as such I would encourage participation in it.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby marknhj » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:32 pm

I was once used in a judo demonstration to demonstrate a choke hold. I was strangled almost into unconsciousness by a local guy, Keith Remfry, who had won silver in the open division at the Montreal Games a month earlier. Most unpleasant and confirmed my decision that being a wussy high jumper was just fine. Ranked up there in unpleasantness with being pinned to the ground at the bottom of a ruck in rugby, being unable to protect my head or goolies with the opposition intent on a bit of afternoon GBH.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby gh » Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:44 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:..... I have a very strong hunch that Goodell wouldn't be throwing around these silly fines if he had ever played football at any level.....
:(


<<of Buffalo, New York. He graduated from Bronxville High School where, as a three-sport star in football, basketball, and baseball, he captained all three teams as a senior and was named the school's athlete of the year.[5] Injuries kept him from playing college football.[6] ...>>
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:56 pm

marknhj wrote:...goolies....


Oh man -- I am going to find a way to use that word tomorrow even if I have to kick myself in my goolies.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:24 am

The wussification of the game has reached a new level. How long will it take before this works its way up to high school, college and eventually the pros?

Usually, when a mercy rule becomes a bone of contention it's because the policy isn't instituted soon enough, until after a game is already far out of reach. Yet in one Northern California community the opposite is unfolding, with parents furious about a new rule that they feel is cheating their children and coaches of football and money wasted on fines.

As reported by Sacramento NBC affiliate KCRA, the Northern California Federation Youth Football League (NCFYFL) instituted stiff new penalties for any teams that beat opponents by 35 points or more. Specifically, those teams will be fined $200 and their coaches will be suspended from all league activities for two weeks. The penalty is a drastic change for the league of 7-13 year-olds, which previously issued teams with a warning following such blowouts and required a written description that detailed what the victorious team had done to try and keep scores low.

Similar penalties are occasionally installed by other youth leagues, but they usually don't kick in until the disparity in score between the teams is almost twice as much as the 35 points being used by the NCFYFL.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschoo ... 25382.html

:(
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Daisy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:30 am

marknhj wrote:Ranked up there in unpleasantness with being pinned to the ground at the bottom of a ruck in rugby, being unable to protect my head or goolies with the opposition intent on a bit of afternoon GBH.

This was exactly why I stopped rugby at about 16, I just got too small for the game. Plus, I couldn't drink enough.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:43 am

jazzcyclist wrote:The wussification of the game has reached a new level.

The easy solution is to go to a running clock as soon as the margin reaches 35 - it just keeps running as it does in soccer, but no added time. The game will be over VERY quickly.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Pego » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:49 am

jazzcyclist wrote:The wussification of the game has reached a new level. How long will it take before this works its way up to high school, college and eventually the pros?

Usually, when a mercy rule becomes a bone of contention it's because the policy isn't instituted soon enough, until after a game is already far out of reach. Yet in one Northern California community the opposite is unfolding, with parents furious about a new rule that they feel is cheating their children and coaches of football and money wasted on fines.

As reported by Sacramento NBC affiliate KCRA, the Northern California Federation Youth Football League (NCFYFL) instituted stiff new penalties for any teams that beat opponents by 35 points or more. Specifically, those teams will be fined $200 and their coaches will be suspended from all league activities for two weeks. The penalty is a drastic change for the league of 7-13 year-olds, which previously issued teams with a warning following such blowouts and required a written description that detailed what the victorious team had done to try and keep scores low.

Similar penalties are occasionally installed by other youth leagues, but they usually don't kick in until the disparity in score between the teams is almost twice as much as the 35 points being used by the NCFYFL.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschoo ... 25382.html

:(


I never quite understood this American concept that blowouts are unsportsmanlike. I agree that once the win is assured beyond doubt, the coach ought to play second/third stringers. Why should they be restrained?
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Daisy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:54 am

Pego wrote:Why should they be restrained?

My sons team got absolutely destroyed in soccer last weekend (age 8-9). They didn't seem to mind at all, but I definitely noticed some concern from the bench. So I suspect it's coming from the parents/coaches rather than the players.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby lonewolf » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:40 pm

Daisy wrote:
Pego wrote:Why should they be restrained?

My sons team got absolutely destroyed in soccer last weekend (age 8-9). They didn't seem to mind at all, but I definitely noticed some concern from the bench. So I suspect it's coming from the parents/coaches rather than the players.

This is interesting.
My two youngest grandsons, 8 and 12, are both playing soccer now. the oldest started playing at age five with the Mighty X-Men team of rejects who compiled a record of over 200 Wins against about 3 losses before being disbanded in a PC move to balance the league. These ordinary little boys developed a "refuse to lose" attitude, perhaps because they were miffed at being last chosen. They had a couple of pretty good little soccer players but so did the other higher seeded teams. They were, of course, much praised by parents and supporters on the sidelines and took their rare losses in stride.
The youngest brother, who is nearly as big as his older brother, started playing last year and I don't think his team has won a game. Nor, do the seem to care.
They get encouragement from the sidelines but "just don't seem to get it" mentally and are lacking in physical skills, individually and collectively.
I don't know where I was going with that except pondering the mystery of different attitudes about winning and losing in a near identical setting.
That and empathy for a little boy playing in the shadow of an older brother.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Daisy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:45 pm

lonewolf wrote:Mighty X-Men team of rejects who compiled a record of over 200 Wins against about 3 losses before being disbanded in a PC move to balance the league.

So I guess we'll never know how they would have taken a big loss. I bet they would have taken it in their stride. As long as the after game snacks were up to scratch!
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:09 pm

You know they've gone too far when a punter accuses the NFL of wussifying the game.

Indianapolis Colts punter Pat McAfee says he considers a statement this week by the NFL's head of officials that punters are defenseless players throughout a play to be a setback for players at his position.

McAfee made his comments in a radio interview Thursday on "The Dan Patrick Show," expounding on thoughts on the topic he had previously shared with Yahoo! Sports.

"This defenseless thing, I don't really know what it means. It kind of sets us back a little bit as a position," McAfee said Thursday.

McAfee said punters understand the risks when they're on the field and he doesn't think he's ever been targeted by a player during a return.

Dean Blandino made his comment on NFL Network this week that punters are "defenseless throughout the down" in reference to the vicious hit by Pittsburgh Steelers linebacker Terence Garvin on Cincinnati Bengals punter Kevin Huber during an Antonio Brown touchdown return on Sunday. Blandino said Garvin should have been penalized for the hit, from which Huber suffered a broken jaw and cracked vertebrae. No flag was thrown.

McAfee noted on Wednesday that Huber ventured into the "war zone," an area of 10 or 15 yards that most punters and kickers try to avoid.

"You either have to get in or get out," McAfee said. "I stay behind that area. He was right in the middle of it. I feel bad for him because he's a good friend of mine. I think if you ask him the same question, he would give you the same answer. He knows it's something that could happen, but knows he has to look out next time."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10165 ... el-setback
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:19 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Dean Blandino made his comment on NFL Network this week that punters are "defenseless throughout the down"

Is that true?! I understand they are 'defenseless' during and immediately after the kick, but ferheavensake, when the run-back is in progress, doesn't their job description include - bring down the returner under all circumstances??!!

A former FSU kicker was asked if his goal was to kick it through the end-zone, making every kick unreturnable. His reply, "If I don't, I'll be the guy making the tackle."

Even I agree it's absurd to make the punter 'defenseless' all play.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:37 pm

How far away from the use of flags are we?!
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Pego » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:51 pm

I saw that play repeatedly. Huber was not "defenseless as a punter", it was simply an intentional, vicious hit by Garvin, helmet to lower face. Not only should he have been flagged, but tossed out and suspended regardless whom he hit, punter or a linebacker. Musings about "where the punters should not venture" are totally irrelevant to what actually happened here.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby user4 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:15 pm

Pego wrote:I saw that play repeatedly. Huber was not "defenseless as a punter", it was simply an intentional, vicious hit by Garvin, helmet to lower face. Not only should he have been flagged, but tossed out and suspended regardless whom he hit, punter or a linebacker. Musings about "where the punters should not venture" are totally irrelevant to what actually happened here.


Pego nails it. It was just the kind of hit the league is trying to end. I totally disagree with Roger Staubach. The league needs to put an end to the senseless injuries. 1) Penalize the targeting hits and 2) improve the equipment (i.e. make the front of the mask and the helmet much more shock absorbing. Calling Huber a defenseless player seems strange. He was not defenseless, the blocker was targeting for injury.

Nevertheless, Huber took a very ill advised line to the runner, as punter his job is to serve as a safety of last resort, not a storm trooper straight into the belly of the beast making a tackle at the first break the runner makes. Just dumb.

One thing I have noticed over the last 30 years is that the punters are becoming much more athletic guys, faster and more agile as athletes. I can remember seeing ray guy run down someone and thinking that ray was a very rare punter. Today it seems that they are all like Ray Guy.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:28 pm

user4 wrote:He was not defenseless, the blocker was targeting for injury.

What makes you think the blocker was trying to injure him? Huber had a bead on the ball carrier and would have likely made the tackle had he not gotten blocked. I understand the news rules are supposed to reduce violence and minimize the chances for concussions, but that doesn't mean that every time a guy gets blown up that someone was trying to injure him.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:49 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:What makes you think the blocker was trying to injure him?

Because he was.

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.c ... .gif?w=600
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby user4 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:55 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
user4 wrote:He was not defenseless, the blocker was targeting for injury.

What makes you think the blocker was trying to injure him? Huber had a bead on the ball carrier and would have likely made the tackle had he not gotten blocked. I understand the news rules are supposed to reduce violence and minimize the chances for concussions, but that doesn't mean that every time a guy gets blown up that someone was trying to injure him.


Agree.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:42 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:What makes you think the blocker was trying to injure him?

Because he was.

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.c ... .gif?w=600

What's the point of that .gif?
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Daisy » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:10 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:What's the point of that .gif?

Using helmet as weapon?
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Dixon » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:39 pm

It really is getting ridiculous, I'm seeing hits that.....THAT'S THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!...being treated like a mugging on the street. Football is all about violence, that is the game. You cannot take violence out of the game, that will not work.

I'd rather be hit around the head and shoulders than around the knees. What padding do you have there? So if guys start going low and we start having all these busted up knees, now what?

Somethings are what they are. Nobody has to get involved, if the game is too rough/dangerous for you then don't play.

I love my son as much as any father could but I 'm not going to keep him away from football because he could get hurt, he could get hurt in a car wreck, something we have every second of everyday.

As far as a...condition...goes because of hits to the head, I would school him on not hitting with his head because of what could happen. The culture does need to become one of....only an idiot hits with his head/helmet, so stop acting stupid.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Pego » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:57 am

Dixon wrote:It really is getting ridiculous, I'm seeing hits that.....THAT'S THE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!...being treated like a mugging on the street. Football is all about violence, that is the game. You cannot take violence out of the game, that will not work.

I'd rather be hit around the head and shoulders than around the knees. What padding do you have there? So if guys start going low and we start having all these busted up knees, now what?

Somethings are what they are. Nobody has to get involved, if the game is too rough/dangerous for you then don't play.

I love my son as much as any father could but I 'm not going to keep him away from football because he could get hurt, he could get hurt in a car wreck, something we have every second of everyday.

As far as a...condition...goes because of hits to the head, I would school him on not hitting with his head because of what could happen. The culture does need to become one of....only an idiot hits with his head/helmet, so stop acting stupid.


Your apologetics for brutality in football is well known here. The kind of hits like Garvin on Huber have to be eliminated from the game, if you want to save it.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:14 am

Daisy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:What's the point of that .gif?

Using helmet as weapon?

I did that all the time but I never wanted to hurt anyone. My guess is that players are having a hard time unlearning things that they've been doing since they first stepped on the field in the pee wee leagues, especially when decisions are made in a split second and your instincts take over.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:18 am

jazzcyclist wrote:My guess is that players are having a hard time unlearning things that they've been doing since they first stepped on the field in the pee wee leagues, especially when decisions are made in a split second and your instincts take over.

We all understand that, but the point now is to NOT teach that any more. The point of the .gif was to show Garvin DID mean to viciously cold-cock Huber. I don't mind hard 'decleaters'. This hit was several magnitudes worse.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:53 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:My guess is that players are having a hard time unlearning things that they've been doing since they first stepped on the field in the pee wee leagues, especially when decisions are made in a split second and your instincts take over.

We all understand that, but the point now is to NOT teach that any more. The point of the .gif was to show Garvin DID mean to viciously cold-cock Huber. I don't mind hard 'decleaters'. This hit was several magnitudes worse.

But you accused Garvin of trying to injure Huber - break his jaw and crack a vertabrae. My point is that there's a difference between trying to deliver a big hit and trying to injure someone. Very few football players ever intentionally try to injure other football players, and unless you have more than a .gif to support your assertion, your accusation against Garvin is just baseless slander IMO. Here's what Huber had to say on the matter:

"It is what it is. It's part of the game, I know -- big hits. Unfortunately I got one of the big hits, and I've got to deal with it. I'll be fine. I'll be back next year."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10158 ... h-steelers
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:57 am

Pego wrote:Your apologetics for brutality in football is well known here. The kind of hits like Garvin on Huber have to be eliminated from the game, if you want to save it.

More and more I'm warming up to the idea of removing the helmets from players, because I guarantee you that Garvin wouldn't have hit Huber like that if he didn't have a helmet on. You never see rugby players try to blow each other up like football players do.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby user4 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:05 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Daisy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:What's the point of that .gif?

Using helmet as weapon?

I did that all the time but I never wanted to hurt anyone. My guess is that players are having a hard time unlearning things that they've been doing since they first stepped on the field in the pee wee leagues, especially when decisions are made in a split second and your instincts take over.


Jazz, I think you are being disingenuous. I too did that kind of hitting all the time. I have put my share of QBs out of the game. I was always trying to hurt the other guy. Maybe you and NFL players today are pure souls just trying to do the right thing on the field. It is within the realm of possibility. But who can believe it ?

Dixon, you may very well be right that it is presently part of the game but can the game survive when its players (whom the NFL franchises invest a great deal of wealth and time into their skill sets) are being carted off the field with broken jaws, concussions and shattered bones. Placing your helmet under the mask of another player should be banned and I think countless other kinds of hitting should be banned.

It was actually worse in the past, the NFL had countless greats that were brutalized. I can understand where Roger Staubach is coming from . It was a different game and men were forced to play with horrible injuries, Butkus was playing on one knee for how many years ?
That kind of product is not good for the NFL market .

1) Targeting ( making a clear concerted effort to hit in a particular way) the head should be banned
2) Targeting the knee in any way should be banned.
3) Equipment minimums should be strictly enforced. Certain players must where minimal head protection depending on the position and that equipment should be approved by a governing body on sports safety.
Last edited by user4 on Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Roger Staubach Calls Today's Players Wussies

Postby Marlow » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:09 am

jazzcyclist wrote: unless you have more than a .gif to support your assertion, your accusation against Garvin is just baseless slander IMO.

I think that video stands on its own - demonstrating exactly what I said. No one can intuit 'intent to harm', but that hit shows a man with blatant disregard to the welfare of another person. I think anyone who watches football would call that a 'vicious' hit. The problem is that too many macho types think vicious = good clean fun. That attitude is going to have to be extinguished if football is to survive.
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