Columnist looks at "trolls" who are anti-Armstrong

[Pego]

i never understood why the obamaphobes are so obsessed with the "hussein" part of his name, when "barack" is a perfectly good arab name as well...

Saddam Hussein is your answer.

[trevorp]

Where are the Men In The White Suits when you need them ?!

I think what they wear is less important that what they've loaded the hypodermics with.

[MattMarriott]

the fact that nobody but LAST PROPHET exposed the doping conspiracy proves that beasts are marked by the BEAST.

The two most important pages of the short story of the web ...
#1 result of this interesting google search of four words
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=basic+facts+about+God

[Marlow]

Fascinating. Delusional paranoid mumbo-jumbo, but fascinating.
I sincerely wonder how Matt carries on in the real world, and, after the Colorado tragedy, why people aren't genuinely worried about him. I know I am.
Bot . . . intentional troll . . . fraternity hazing carried on way too far?

[Daisy]

After more than a decade of outrunning accusations that he had doped during his celebrated cycling career, Lance Armstrong, one of the best-known and accomplished athletes in recent history, surrendered on Thursday, etching a dark mark on his legacy by ending his fight against charges that he used performance-enhancing drugs.

....

His decision means he will almost certainly be stripped of his seven Tour titles, the bronze medal he won at the 2000 Olympics and all other titles, awards and money he won from August 1998 on.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sport ... itles.html

[jazzcyclist]

Too bad USADA doesn't have jurisdiction over the NFL, the NBA and MLB.

[CookyMonzta]

Bet your horse money that his LiveStrong Foundation will go bust before the next Tour de France. The existence of that foundation is completely predicated upon the fame he gained from his exploits at the Tour de France. Without his victories, there would not have been a LiveStrong Foundation.

Now, once we are done with what could very well be the single biggest redistribution of awards (and money) ever to take place in the history of sport, all that remains of his legacy and career record will be even far worse than what remains of Marion Jones'. Her career record and awards, up to the summer of 2000 (including her 1997 and '99 World Championships and her PRs of 10.65A, 21.62, 49.59 and 20.8 relay leg), still remain intact. Everything Lance has, right up to the beginning of 1999, is not even a footnote compared to what remains of hers. Hardly anyone spoke of him before the 1999 Tour.

Who finished 2nd in each of the 4 AP polls that Lance won for Male Athlete of the Year? Venus Williams was 2nd to Marion in the 2000 Female Athlete of the Year poll. How will they deal with Lance?

[Tuariki]

It will be interesting to see id the UCI tells USADA to go take a flying jump.

I am totally opposed to drugs and if Armstrong is guilty then I hope he gets his just desserts. However, Armstrong has probably been tested more times than any athlete alive and has always tested clean. US federal authorities decided they didn't have any evidence to charge him.

USADA has not put up a skerrick of indisputable evidence. Landis is not evidence. I am totally unsurprised that Armstrong has said to USADA "Go and F%$* your arbitration". Why should Armstrong spend millions trying to keep on defending himself?

So, if he is guilty then he deserves to go down. But USADA needs to front up with the evidence. Unfortunately, USADA is a typical example of how the USA justice system often works. Iraq had weapons of mass destruction because the US said so. And because the US has the military might and power it can do what it did. But not a skerrick of evidence. The USADA also has the might and power it seems to push a case, even if the real USADA motive is politics or publicity as Judge Sparks hinted at.

"USADA's conduct raises serious questions about whether its real interest in charging Armstrong is to combat doping, or if it is acting according to less noble motives,'' such as politics or publicity, U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks wrote.

[Gabriella]

At last, we are near to some justice. This arrogant cheat looks to finally get his just desserts.

The only reason he has made the decision not to fight is to avoid any formal prosecution and conviction of doping; he wants to avoid the humiliation.

A great quote from a UK journalist:

"The most important lesson of the Lance Armstrong story, though, is the hardest to prepare for and guard against: our own gullibility and willing complicity. What is astounding and disturbing is that one man – a dominant personality as well as a dominant athlete – was able to enforce his will, isolate, bully and silence his doubters and critics, and win the world's top cycling event year after year and make people believe in him, despite there being, apparently, dozens of witnesses to its utter phoniness. Too many people had too much invested in the Lance Armstrong story, and the power of persuasion followed the money.

The moral of the story is that if a cyclist looks too good to be true, then he probably is. But if a cyclist looks too good to be true and has an entourage of lawyers, press flaks, doctors and bodyguards, then he definitely is."

[pakillo]

quote "USADA chief executive Travis Tygart said Armstrong would be hit with a lifetime ban on Friday and planned to strip him of the seven Tour de France titles he won from 1999-2005."

The only one who should be banned for life are those who were silent when they were supposed to bust all the cheats, all anti-doping officials from that time, period.

[guru]

US federal authorities decided they didn't have any evidence to charge him.

That's simply not true, and had nothing to do with the decision of U.S. Attorney Andre Birotte to suddenly close the case last winter.

[catson52]

A great write up, bambam; though I am no expert on cycling, it brought back memories of the sport 40-50 years ago. Any views on Charly Gaul, the great Luxembourger from the 50s?

[MattMarriott]

04-06-2009, 04:40 PM
http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-e ... ollow.html

Six acts
Lance Armstrong accused 29 June 2012 - stripped of his Tour de France titles ?
Usain Bolt accused ? - stripped of his Olympics and World titles ?
"Hussein Obama II" accused ? - stripped of his 44th presidential title ?

August 24, 2012 - second act out of six - Lance Armstrong stripped of his Tour de France Titles
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-0 ... d-for-life

[j-a-m]

Congratulations to Beloki, Kloeden, Basso, Zuelle for winning their first Tour? And to Ullrich for winning three additional Tours? And correct me if I'm wrong, the only two of those five who never tested positive are Beloki and Kloeden?

[jazzcyclist]

Congratulations to Beloki, Kloeden, Basso, Zuelle for winning their first Tour? And to Ullrich for winning three additional Tours? And correct me if I'm wrong, the only two of those five who never tested positive are Beloki and Kloeden?

Yeah but, Beloki's career ended prematurely in that horrific crash on the way to Gap in the 2003 Tour and there's too much smoke surrounding Kloden for there not to be some fire too.

[jazzcyclist]

It will be interesting to see id the UCI tells USADA to go take a flying jump.

I am totally opposed to drugs and if Armstrong is guilty then I hope he gets his just desserts. However, Armstrong has probably been tested more times than any athlete alive and has always tested clean. US federal authorities decided they didn't have any evidence to charge him.

There's no doubt in my mind that Armstrong doped along with the rest of his teammates and the entire peleton, but I think these matters are better left to the UCI. Was USADA granted the authority to get involved in such matters or did they arrogate themselves this power in the same manner that the NCAA arrogated itself the power to get involved with criminal justice matters involving Penn State?

[MattMarriott]

Lance Armstrong, Usain Bolt,"Hussein Obama II" accused and stripped: first of 6 acts June 29 2012, next 5 to follow in 2012

Lance Armstrong. Usain Bolt, "Hussein Obama II" accused and stripped - first of six acts June 29 2012

Last Prophet predicted 2004 that the greatest cycling champion ever, Lance Armstrong, would be executed the same way as Marion Jones:
- first: falsely accused of doping, as many others before, part of the agenda behind the illuminati doping conspiracy; (1)
- second: all major TITLES erased from the official medals table, which is also part of the "Rewrite History" agenda pushed to the utter limits.

In 2007 Last Prophet explained that Usain Bolt would be executed the same way as Lance Armstrong.
In 2008 after Usain Bolt set his world records at the Beijing Olympics, Last Prophet explained that Usain Bolt became the fastest man ever AND FOREVER.

Last Prophet explained immediately after the illuminati were forced to use plan B for the 2008 "election" and have "Obama" play counterfeit president and have him detonate as fake suicide bomber (like Nixon) later, that illuminati actor "Obama" would be executed the same way (2) as the two greatest sports champions ever, Armstrong and Bolt:
- accused of all sort of crimes (forging birth certificate; murdering "granny", etc);
- stripped of his title, with Hillary Clinton declared 44th president and successor of GW Bush.

All this part also of the supervised ethnic civil war script, to be launched together with the collapse of banks and anihilation of savings and pension funds of the human cattle.

The first of these six acts (accusation, titles stripping of Armstrong, Bolt and "Obama") timely took place (3) on June 29, 2012, hours before the start of the Tour de France.
The next five acts won't take as long as the first did. Actually they are all scheduled for 2012.

Notes
(1) http://doping-conspiracy.blogspot.pt/20 ... ll-be.html
(2) http://rewrite-history.blogspot.pt/2009 ... nia-v.html
(3) Lance Armstrong to face charges from U.S. Anti-Doping Agency
June 29, 2012
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/o ... igs30.html

In
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=47306

[guru]

Was USADA granted the authority to get involved in such matters...?

Yes, because as the infamous 1984 pre-Olympic USOC "warnings" showed(linked to my profile here), sport governing bodies have a vested interest to not pursue - if not flat cover up - doping issues.

[jazzcyclist]

Was USADA granted the authority to get involved in such matters...?

Yes, because as the infamous 1984 pre-Olympic USOC "warnings" showed(linked to my profile here), sport governing bodies have a vested interest to not pursue - if not flat cover up - doping issues.

I understand the conflict of interest of governing bodies, but does that mean that USADA has the authority to strip Peyton Manning of his MVP's if it found cause? Who gave USADA this power?

[guru]

Was USADA granted the authority to get involved in such matters...?

Yes, because as the infamous 1984 pre-Olympic USOC "warnings" showed(linked to my profile here), sport governing bodies have a vested interest to not pursue - if not flat cover up - doping issues.

I understand the conflict of interest of governing bodies, but does that mean that USADA has the authority to strip Peyton Manning of his MVP's if it found cause? Who gave USADA this power?

No, because the NFL does not fall under USADA's purview as ""the official anti-doping agency for Olympic, Pan American and Paralympic sport in the United States." It was created in 2000 because the USOC was under increasing pressure due to conflict of interest credibility issues

[j-a-m]

but I think these matters are better left to the UCI. Was USADA granted the authority to get involved in such matters or did they arrogate themselves this power

What USADA is doing here is a publicity stunt at best. Looking forward to UCI making its own decision or getting this to the CAS.

[Cooter Brown]

He owns a bar downtown called "Six" which opened after his 6th title. I wonder if he'll rename it Zero.

[jazzcyclist]

No, because the NFL does not fall under USADA's purview as ""the official anti-doping agency for Olympic, Pan American and Paralympic sport in the United States." It was created in 2000 because the USOC was under increasing pressure due to conflict of interest credibility issues

So if what you're saying is true and USADA can involve itself in any Olympic sport, I would presume that USADA also has the power to strip Lebron James of MVP awards and Serena Williams of Wimbledon titles, and since golf is returning to the Olympics in 2016, I guess it can also take away Tiger Woods' 14 major golf titles if it sees fit.

[Marlow]

I just realized that MM (AFAIK) has NEVER engaged anyone here; he just posts and disappears again.

Matt! I'm calling you out, bro! How is it that you are not willing to DISCUSS this? You just want to 'lecture' us. That ain't hackin' it! Stand up for what you believe!

[not that I believe for a moment that the thread wouldn't go south IMMEDIATELY and disappear, with a life-time ban on our favorite anti-hero]

[HopStepJump]

Congratulations to Beloki, Kloeden, Basso, Zuelle for winning their first Tour? And to Ullrich for winning three additional Tours? And correct me if I'm wrong, the only two of those five who never tested positive are Beloki and Kloeden?

I really wonder how far down the GC list you would have to go to find a clean rider. 10th place? 20th place? Who really knows? I presume it's far enough down that they couldn't find a rightful winner because the tactics focus on the perceived threats and the small potatoes guys are allowed to ride off in breakaways.

[odelltrclan]

The titles should simply be vacated. No winners. At least in the cases of other athletes being elevated who have had their own issues, such as Ullrich and Basso. How embarrassing is it to say to admitted or convicted dopers, here is your title! In my opinion, Lance deserves what he is getting but, as others have pointed out, much of the peleton was doping and no winner would be the best answer.

[CookyMonzta]

My bad. I thought Lance created his LiveStrong Foundation well after winning his first Tour de France. I knew he was raising money for cancer research, but I didn't hear about this foundation until after his first retirement in 2005. I didn't know he created this foundation in 1997, while he was out of cycling and getting treatment for cancer.

Which leads me to this question: Did he cheat to keep his foundation going, knowing that, if he were just an also-ran in those 7 Tours (maybe 1 or 2 wins between '99 and '05), the charity money would not flow even remotely as fast as it did during the last 13 years of that foundation's existence? That is to say, did he think the survival of his foundation was completely dependent on his success at the Tour? And did he return to cycling in 2008 because the money started to slow down dramatically after his 2005 retirement?

And how does one beat a test when being tested up the wazoo as Lance was? The accusations started immediately after he won his first Tour, and I'm sure that, because of the accusations, they tested him every single chance they had.

[jazzcyclist]

The titles should simply be vacated. No winners. At least in the cases of other athletes being elevated who have had their own issues, such as Ullrich and Basso. How embarrassing is it to say to admitted or convicted dopers, here is your title! In my opinion, Lance deserves what he is getting but, as others have pointed out, much of the peleton was doping and no winner would be the best answer.

Has Riis' 1996 title been vacated? After all, he's an admitted doper.

[Cooter Brown]

I really wonder how far down the GC list you would have to go to find a clean rider. 10th place? 20th place? Who really knows?

I heard earlier that 23 out of the top 25 riders in the 2005 Tour de France have either been suspended or implicated in doping scandals.

[jazzcyclist]

Which leads me to this question: Did he cheat to keep his foundation going, knowing that, if he were just an also-ran in those 7 Tours (maybe 1 or 2 wins between '99 and '05), the charity money would not flow even remotely as fast as it did during the last 13 years of that foundation's existence? That is to say, did he think the survival of his foundation was completely dependent on his success at the Tour? And did he return to cycling in 2008 because the money started to slow down dramatically after his 2005 retirement?

And how does one beat a test when being tested up the wazoo as Lance was? The accusations started immediately after he won his first Tour, and I'm sure that, because of the accusations, they tested him every single chance they had.

According to Tyler Hamilton, U.S. Postal already had a full-blown doping program before Armstrong joined the team after his bout with cancer.

[odelltrclan]

The titles should simply be vacated. No winners. At least in the cases of other athletes being elevated who have had their own issues, such as Ullrich and Basso. How embarrassing is it to say to admitted or convicted dopers, here is your title! In my opinion, Lance deserves what he is getting but, as others have pointed out, much of the peleton was doping and no winner would be the best answer.

has Riis' 1996 title been vacated? After all, he's an admitted doper.

Yes, I think it was vacated.

[jazzcyclist]

The titles should simply be vacated. No winners. At least in the cases of other athletes being elevated who have had their own issues, such as Ullrich and Basso. How embarrassing is it to say to admitted or convicted dopers, here is your title! In my opinion, Lance deserves what he is getting but, as others have pointed out, much of the peleton was doping and no winner would be the best answer.

has Riis' 1996 title been vacated? After all, he's an admitted doper.

Yes, I think it was vacated.

Not according to the Tour's official website. According to it, Landis is the only one who has ever been stripped.

http://www.letour.fr/2012/TDF/HISTO/us/palmares.html

[Conor Dary]

I understand the conflict of interest of governing bodies, but does that mean that USADA has the authority to strip Peyton Manning of his MVP's if it found cause? Who gave USADA this power?

Right. Americans play soccer in the EPL. Are they going after those guys?

I wonder what the Tour de France people think of all of this? After all it is their event.

[Conor Dary]

Not according to the Tour's official website. According to it, Landis is the only one who has ever been stripped.

http://www.letour.fr/2012/TDF/HISTO/us/palmares.html

Which makes sense since the guy flunked a Tour test....

[odelltrclan]

The titles should simply be vacated. No winners. At least in the cases of other athletes being elevated who have had their own issues, such as Ullrich and Basso. How embarrassing is it to say to admitted or convicted dopers, here is your title! In my opinion, Lance deserves what he is getting but, as others have pointed out, much of the peleton was doping and no winner would be the best answer.

has Riis' 1996 title been vacated? After all, he's an admitted doper.

Yes, I think it was vacated.

Not according to the Tour's official website. According to it, Landis is the only one who has ever been stripped.

http://www.letour.fr/2012/TDF/HISTO/us/palmares.html

It at one point had been removed but then was added back several years later. Perhaps the same thing will happen with Lance. I personally don't care if he retains the titles or not. Yes, they were all doping and he was the best of the bunch. But the culture of the sport needs to be cleaned up so the future is better for current athletes. Lance could go a long way in furthering that effort along if he would admit the truth.