as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:30 am

Daisy wrote:
BisonHurdler wrote:It was supposed to be easily available to all medical students here at the beginning of this month. We're 2/3 of the way through October and we're still receiving emails from Health Services stating "still no word on those H1N1 vaccines yet, sorry guys . . . "

It's in our local schools now. They start vaccinating next week.


They started vaccinating in the schools this week, but we got a message yesterday saying that not all kids would get the vaccine as scheduled because they are low; apparently they only have the nasal/live variant (which is fine with me, although my first grader prefers the shot -- not my 8th grader!). Tuesday is the scheduled day; they will send a note home with every child that does not get the vaccine that has signed up.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16323
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Postby gh » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:08 am

guru wrote:[....
We're swimming in the stuff here....


Wow, an even easier delivery method than the nasal spray! :)
gh
 
Posts: 46327
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby tandfman » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:48 pm

gh wrote:from my paper this morning:

<<Public health authorities have been lecturing people for months to get the swine flu vaccine, but to those who actually listened: Good luck finding it.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for months has said that the vaccine would be widely available - with about 50 million doses - by mid-October. But as the end of the month approaches, fewer than 13 million doses have been delivered to states.....>>

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z0UhXnDBUg

Similar story at nytimes.com:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/24/health/24flu.html

A month ago, Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, warned that the flu vaccination drive soon to begin would be “a little bumpy.”

That was an understatement.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby gh » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:51 pm

talked to an ER doc I know the other day; his department has seen "about a thousand" flu patient so far this fall.

He says they're 99.9% swine. Not cost-effective to test them all clinically, but ongoing random sampling isn't turning up any seasonal flu.

In the worst case they had, 7-month-pregnant woman had severe lung issues; function diminished to point that she was compromising the fetus with lack of oxygen, so they had to do a C-section to save the baby. Shortly thereafter the mother died (not because of the surgery). :-(
gh
 
Posts: 46327
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby BisonHurdler » Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:36 pm

gh wrote:He says they're 99.9% swine.




This is consistent with the numbers we've been given from the Infectious Disease docs and the Institute for Human Virology folks who have been lecturing for our Virology course.
BisonHurdler
 
Posts: 2274
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: Bodymore, Murderland

Postby DrJay » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:30 pm

Our office received 200 doses of the injectable and 200 doses of the nasal spray version of the H1N1 vaccine this week, from the State Health Department. My kids' pediatrician hasn't even gotten any, and we didn't even request any of the nasal spray formulation.

While the peds offices and the ERs and urgent care centers have been full-on busy with kids with respiratory infections, a lot of it H1N1, we have seen an average amount of viral respiratory infections for this time of year, and very few cases that seemed like classic influenza, with high fevers, terrible body aches, and terrible cough. Almost zero among the elderly.
DrJay
 
Posts: 5485
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Woodland Park, CO

Postby 26mi235 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:00 pm

26mi235 wrote:They started vaccinating in the schools this week, but we got a message yesterday saying that not all kids would get the vaccine as scheduled because they are low; apparently they only have the nasal/live variant (which is fine with me, although my first grader prefers the shot -- not my 8th grader!). Tuesday is the scheduled day; they will send a note home with every child that does not get the vaccine that has signed up.


They got to my sons class and most of the way through but ran out before they got to him. He came down sick two days later but it has developed slowly (slight fever briefly for a couple of days, then 103 at night and 101-104.0 the next day (today) and if he goes back to 104 they said to bring him in (and now my throat is feeling iffy (an my wife departs for 6 days on Sunday).
26mi235
 
Posts: 16323
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Postby TNT » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:22 pm

TNT
 
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico

Postby 26mi235 » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:45 pm

Unfortunately, for me now a vaccine is superfluous, I got immunity the hard way.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16323
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Postby gh » Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:09 am

I gotta tell you, it wasn't easy holding my breath for 21 hours on two flights and through three airports!
gh
 
Posts: 46327
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby guru » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:51 am

H1N1 looking to be mildest flu outbreak on record.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34323690/ns ... alth_news/
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Postby Marlow » Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:54 am

guru wrote:H1N1 looking to be mildest flu outbreak on record.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34323690/ns ... alth_news/

Finally got my shot ($18 at CVS) over the weekend, but it sure seems like the cycle has run its course here. Is it possible the vaccines kept it down, or was this the Y2K Hype all over again?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby bad hammy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:02 am

Marlow wrote:. . . or was this the Y2K Hype all over again?

The Y2K thing was no hype. As someone in the computer trenches I know that tons of work was done by tons of folks in the years leading up to 2000 to make sure it was a non-event.
bad hammy
 
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby Daisy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:05 am

bad hammy wrote:to make sure it was a non-event.

Right, sometimes the hype is worth it to make something happen so nothing happens.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby Marlow » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:07 am

bad hammy wrote:
Marlow wrote:. . . or was this the Y2K Hype all over again?

The Y2K thing was no hype. As someone in the computer trenches I know that tons of work was done by tons of folks in the years leading up to 2000 to make sure it was a non-event.

Then my question stands, did the vaccines and the Health Alerts (quintupling the profits of th Purell people) actually make the difference?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby Daisy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:12 am

My guess would be the hygiene precautions reduced a lot of cases. My sons class room has a policy of washing hands before entering the classroom. They have a soap dispenser right at the door that was installed at the beginning of the semester. Where I work, people who were ill were actively encouraged to stay at home. For once people acted on the advice.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby Marlow » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:28 am

Daisy wrote:My guess would be the hygiene precautions reduced a lot of cases.

Can this stick? Have we permanently raised the culture's consciousness in re: viral infections?
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby Daisy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:35 am

Marlow wrote:Have we permanently raised the culture's consciousness in re: viral infections?

I doubt that, but certainly transiently.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby guru » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:55 am

- Overall infection rate is 8%, lower than average flu season(20%), much lower than typical "pandemic"(25-50%)

- Death rate has been less than 1 in 2000 of those who contract H1N1, lower than average flu season, much lower than "experts" predicted(1 in every 100)
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Postby Daisy » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:58 am

My feeling here is there should be a collection sigh of relief rather than doubting the response.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:01 am

Well i'm glad i didnt lose any sleep over the latest predicted disaster. :roll:
SQUACKEE
 
Posts: 12885
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Heaven-In front of stereo listenin to re-mastered Beatles

Postby SQUACKEE » Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:03 am

Well its official, another bogus threat of possible human disaster nothing more than B.S.. In today's paper a health expert called the Swine Flu threat dead. The boy cried wolf again. I was basically called an idiot for not getting a shot. I know people who got the shot and came down sick.

Here ismy 2nd post on this massive thread.

SQUACKEE


I'll take my chances, dont trust some big agency sticking some crap in me, just dont.

I'd like to see where everyone comes down on this.
SQUACKEE
 
Posts: 12885
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Heaven-In front of stereo listenin to re-mastered Beatles

Postby mcgato » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:42 am

I didn't get any of the shots either, and I'm still alive. Haven't gotten sick either, but then the winter flu season isn't over yet.
mcgato
 
Posts: 1605
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Hoboken

Postby Pego » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:08 am

Healthy, athletic males, or people with known immunity (indolence) to influenza could opt out of immunization and get away with it.

I wonder, if SQUACKEE and mcgato were just as cocky in a smallpox epidemics. Actually, no, I don't wonder, I know, what they would do, sensible people as they are.
Pego
 
Posts: 10199
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Postby guru » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:12 am

Pego wrote:I wonder, if SQUACKEE and mcgato were just as cocky in a smallpox epidemics. Actually, no, I don't wonder, I know, what they would do, sensible people as they are.



Smallpox is not the flu, and you know it.
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Postby SQUACKEE » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:45 am

Pego wrote:Healthy, athletic males, or people with known immunity (indolence) to influenza could opt out of immunization and get away with it.

I wonder, if SQUACKEE and mcgato were just as cocky in a smallpox epidemics. Actually, no, I don't wonder, I know, what they would do, sensible people as they are.


Im not cocky against real threats, only false alarms. :D

Cant i be right once in my life. :cry:
SQUACKEE
 
Posts: 12885
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Heaven-In front of stereo listenin to re-mastered Beatles

Postby BisonHurdler » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:54 am

While the situation surely could've been handled better, my fear is that this will only fuel America's bizarre obsession with distrusting the medical community (who, you know, had all the facts out there on the CDC website and such for people to make reasonably informed opinions) rather than the media who regularly sensationalized and distorted many of the facts.
BisonHurdler
 
Posts: 2274
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: Bodymore, Murderland

Postby Pego » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am

guru wrote:
Pego wrote:I wonder, if SQUACKEE and mcgato were just as cocky in a smallpox epidemics. Actually, no, I don't wonder, I know, what they would do, sensible people as they are.



Smallpox is not the flu, and you know it.


Yes, I do. Just as you know perfectly well a difference between trace metals and poisoning, which did not prevent you from a gratuitous low blow against me. Your unsupported attack on physicians and hospitals was not too endearing either.

Continue with your antiscience and there will be a like response.
Pego
 
Posts: 10199
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Postby guru » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:32 am

Except no one is equating smallpox with the flu. A lot of people are concerned about the health effects of Thimersol. So much so that the CDC and AAP requested removal from infant vaccines in 1999(which makers did).
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Postby Marlow » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:08 pm

It all comes down to cold logic and the odds. You are more likely to stay healthy if you get the shot. Period.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby guru » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:10 pm

Marlow wrote: Period.



Not quite.

Short term - I agree. You are much less likely to get the disease you are being innoculated against. Long term is not so black and white.
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Postby Marlow » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:13 pm

guru wrote:
Marlow wrote: Period.

Not quite.
Short term - I agree. You are less likely to get the disease you are being innoculated against. Long term is not so black and white.

There is no substantive evidence that your immune system is or is not compromised by the FLU shot, so I repeat, the odds are WITH you if you get the shot.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby Pego » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:37 pm

guru wrote:Except no one is equating smallpox with the flu. A lot of people are concerned about the health effects of Thimersol. So much so that the CDC and AAP requested removal from infant vaccines in 1999(which makers did).


This deserves an answer. First, "people are concerned about the health effects of Thimersol". You quoted one article in this regard on the other thread. While I have neither the tools, nor the time to evaluate their statistics, I read carefully the clinical part. It is erroneous at best, outright nonsense at worst. If this is representative of "people that are concerned about the health effects of Thimersol", you need to do better.

Secondly, the change in vaccines. While I am not familiar with the process, I would dare to bet that the reason for change would be the elimination of fear the crackpots caused to the parents as well as legal issues, rather than the merits of your argument.
Pego
 
Posts: 10199
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Postby odelltrclan » Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:26 pm

Marlow wrote:It all comes down to cold logic and the odds. You are more likely to stay healthy if you get the shot. Period.


Are you sure, my bet is that the odds are that I have been exposed to something similar enough in my lifetime to not have to worry about it, as most people over 40. Odds are probably better that I would have a greater risk for something going wrong in getting a vaccination than to let mother nature take its course.

In other words, I think for me the odds of having any serious problems from this were very low and I would rather take that chance than to have any chance of something going wrong with a vaccination.

I know people who get flu shots every year and always seem to get sick, or at least far sicker than I do.
odelltrclan
 
Posts: 1554
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:30 pm

Postby Marlow » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:10 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
Marlow wrote:It all comes down to cold logic and the odds. You are more likely to stay healthy if you get the shot. Period.

Are you sure

Yes.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby steve » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:30 pm

guru wrote:
Pego wrote:I wonder, if SQUACKEE and mcgato were just as cocky in a smallpox epidemics. Actually, no, I don't wonder, I know, what they would do, sensible people as they are.



Smallpox is not the flu, and you know it.


The largest epidemic in history is the flu epidemic of 1918. In 2 years more than 50 million people were estimated to have died worldwide.

I would guess that the reason that the H1N1 was not so deadly this time was due to the many news reports, precautions, antivirals, and the vaccines. Those of you who didn't get the vaccine and didn't get the flu can thank herd immunity and everybody else's precautions.

As for the idea that in 40 plus years your immune system has been exposed to enough antigens that there is likely crossover immunity.......just not true. Pick up an immunology text and an infectious disease text and you'll learn how acquired immunity works.
steve
 
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby BisonHurdler » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:42 pm

odelltrclan wrote:I know people who get flu shots every year and always seem to get sick, or at least far sicker than I do.



I know an old man down the street that walks with a limp and uses a cane. Now I'm not saying the cane causes his leg to malfunction, but I never use a cane and my leg works just fine . . . seems a little suspicious.
BisonHurdler
 
Posts: 2274
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: Bodymore, Murderland

Postby guru » Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:55 pm

Except I'll bet the old man got his cane after he got that limp.
guru
 
Posts: 10266
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Postby BisonHurdler » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:23 pm

guru wrote:Except I'll bet the old man got his cane after he got that limp.


Exactly. And it's quite possible that the reason these people are getting flu shots is because of an underlying predisposition to illness/weaker immune system in the first place.

It's like suggesting that multiple drugs for hypertension cause higher blood pressure, because all the people I see who have the highest blood pressures are on the most medications for it.
BisonHurdler
 
Posts: 2274
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: Bodymore, Murderland

Postby SQUACKEE » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:06 am

steve wrote:I would guess that the reason that the H1N1 was not so deadly this time was due to the many news reports, precautions, antivirals, and the vaccines. Those of you who didn't get the vaccine and didn't get the flu can thank herd immunity and everybody else's precautions.
.


I knew someone would bring up this point. I have no proof if its valid or not, only a feeling it isnt.
SQUACKEE
 
Posts: 12885
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Heaven-In front of stereo listenin to re-mastered Beatles

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests