meanwhile, AIG still knows how to spend money


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Postby gm » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:49 pm



What an inane thing for Grassley to say. Using his logic, with the way Congress is spending, they should all do "the honorable thing" as well.
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Postby guru » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:37 pm

Grassley's memory apparently doesn't go back to 1999.
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Postby tandfman » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:50 am

Here's an argument for paying the bonuses:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/busin ... orkin.html
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Postby gh » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:17 am

<<“We cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff” the company “if employees believe that their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the U.S. Treasury,” he said.>>

To quote Jon Stewart's closing in his rants against CNBC: "Fuck you!"

In the kleptocracy that is Wall Street it was the "best and brightest" who led the country down the primrose path. I'd sure hate to see what trouble we'd be in if they had hired people with scruples.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:36 am

It felt so good to read that expletive i have to join in. To the incompetent and most likely corrupt suits who still want their bonus's that were promised.......FUCK YOU!
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Postby jeremyp » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:41 am

The biggest fall out of the bonus scandal may be Obama's economic plan. While we should all be outraged at AIG, we should not shoot ourselves in the foot and put a halt to stabilizing the financial sector. If it fails, the economy fails.
Look at China, while we fiddle around slowed by the vagaries of Democracy, they create stimulus bills without opposition, and are now buying up many good deals world wide in a "fire sale." And that's with "our" dollars, not theirs.

SHANGHAI -- Chinese companies have been on a shopping spree in the past month, snapping up tens of billions of dollars' worth of key assets in Iran, Brazil, Russia, Venezuela, Australia and France in a global fire sale set off by the financial crisis.

The deals have allowed China to lock up supplies of oil, minerals, metals and other strategic natural resources it needs to continue to fuel its growth. The sheer scope of the agreements marks a shift in global finance, roiling energy markets and feeding worries about the future availability and prices of those commodities in other countries that compete for them, including the United States.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03293.html
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Postby Daisy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:47 am

SQUACKEE wrote:To the incompetent and most likely corrupt suits who still want their bonus's that were promised....


Do we really know for sure that they were incompetent? Maybe they were just corrupt?
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:52 am

Daisy wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:To the incompetent and most likely corrupt suits who still want their bonus's that were promised....


Do we really know for sure that they were incompetent? Maybe they were just corrupt?


Good point! Could be both and either or a wonderful mix of shit.
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Postby Pego » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:25 am

Daisy wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:To the incompetent and most likely corrupt suits who still want their bonus's that were promised....


Do we really know for sure that they were incompetent? Maybe they were just corrupt?


Fine with me. Incompetent ones get fired, the corrupt ones imprisoned. Neither option calls for a bonus.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:28 am

Another idea: create a special AIG Bonus Tax!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/ ... index.html
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Postby gh » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:08 am

73 AIG execs got a million bucks each; 11 no longer even work for the company

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:40 am

gh wrote:73 AIG execs got a million bucks each

At LEAST a million each. Largest was $6.4 mil.
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Postby paulthefan » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:14 pm

AIG, Merril Lynch, Leh, etc. CEOs gave themselves massive, multi-million dollar bonuses for 30hours per week of work, the remainder performed on the golf course while they were driving their companies into the dirt. The Fed's "martket's" response was to give them billions in taxpayer dollars from joe sixpack's daughter's college fund. Sounds like a great business plan, what american CEO would not try to parlay that into a double.. one more time
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Postby guru » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:47 pm

paulthefan wrote:The Fed's "martket's" response was to give them billions in taxpayer dollars from joe sixpack's daughter's college fund.



No they didn't. The Fed "created" the funds, and electronically transferred them to the institutions. No actual taxpayer funds have been used(so far). Normally inflationary, but not in this environment.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:37 pm

guru wrote:Normally inflationary, but not in this environment.

We hope.
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Postby eldrick » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:01 pm

guru wrote:I really couldn't care less. The Fed makes Libor plus 850(currently around 10%), and if AIG cant pay the loans back by 2010, or they go into default, then their divisions get broken up and sold off, making a tidy profit for the government.


i don't see how on earth you can keep waffling on with this drivel

it doesn't make a shitload of difference whether fed asks for libor + 10,000, they ain't getting a red cent back !

i never looked at this ugly named topic before but it seems to never die, so it looked a view on a leisurely friday

looking at near 100 posts here, no one has actually bothered to get to the colonel ( or even kernel ) of aig's death ???

i've been e-mailed addenda from a general 'broker for months ( along with any other guy who opens an account ) - post it next
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Postby guru » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:19 pm

eldrick wrote:[it doesn't make a shitload of difference whether fed asks for libor + 10,000, they ain't getting a red cent back !



If that's the case(and it may well be) there will be a nice yard sale on the front steps of the Fed in a couple of years(or sooner). I'm sure those coveted insurance divisions will fetch a pretty penny.
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Postby eldrick » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:04 pm

eh ?

- house/contents/car/pooch insurance division worth maybe for argument's sake $10 billion

- let's not beat about bush here - mexican cottonpickers on few $/week getting $500k mortages off 0 deposit on proviso they can repay monthly mortgage for 25y ( on guarantee they'd stuff house wth 1/2 dozen cottonpickers, constantly, to pay it back ) - worth $100 billion

banks ( name them yourself - citigroup, merill, lehman, etc) accepted these mortgages & deluded themselves into thinking they had rock-solid/ricardo montalban clients

wrapped these shit mortgages into bonds, which rating companies like moody's, standard & poor's, fitch's didn't do due diligence & accepted banks' word of reliability & wrapped this crap into AAA ( treasury status ) or even AAB ( top-junk )

AAA/AAB has to have an insurer for failure - considered impossible for this quality of product

aig were just poor suckers who stepped up to the plate...
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Postby guru » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:54 am

AIG execs/regulators testifying before congress today, including CEO Liddy. On CSPAN 3.
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Postby gh » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:21 am

Cartoon on the breaking of "guaranteed" contracts (as in, white-collar vs. blue)

http://wpcomics.washingtonpost.com/clie ... 009/03/17/
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:28 am

Hmmmm, I think it's time for the peasants to break out the pitchforks and burning torches myself. ;)
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Postby jhc68 » Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:25 pm

We're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore!!!!

Of course the feverish atmosphere contributes to theater of the absurd. Where I live the city workers just got a 4% raise, followed immediately by an announcement that they would all be obliged to take an unpaid furlough amounting to 5% of their annual pay. (Say what?)

This prompted the local union thumpers to proclaim that city workers are just like AIG suits in terms of stealing taxpayer money and that unions are driving the nation to bankruptcy -even though the city workers will take a net 1% pay cut. It's an odd world.
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Postby gh » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:47 am

These corporate hacks just don't get it, do they? Citigroup talking about a $10M office remodel?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... LGVE_YzvUU
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Postby Daisy » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:38 pm

They're just asking for arson. Are they nuts?
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:28 pm

Well, you know how it is. When someone gives you a load of money or your credit card limit goes up another thou, sometimes you just feel like going to the mall and splashing the cash!
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Postby deca-pat » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:58 pm

AthleticsInBritain wrote:Well, you know how it is. When someone gives you a load of money or your credit card limit goes up another thou, sometimes you just feel like going to the mall and splashing the cash!


Athletics, what has been your thoughts on EU Parliament member Daniel Hannan?
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:46 pm

deca-pat wrote:
AthleticsInBritain wrote:Well, you know how it is. When someone gives you a load of money or your credit card limit goes up another thou, sometimes you just feel like going to the mall and splashing the cash!


Athletics, what has been your thoughts on EU Parliament member Daniel Hannan?


I just watched his speech (which can be found on YouTube) and it's well worth watching. Although my politics aren't the same as his I find it very hard to disagree with what he says. I'd not seen the video, so thanks for inspiring me to look it up. My only criticism is that he was too polite! :lol: You should hear what Jeremy Clarkson called Gordon Brown ... ;)

The backlash against the banking world's fat cats has started and it's getting quite ugly here. There's been huge criticism of Sir Fred Goodwin, former CEO of the Royal Bank of Scotland, a recipient of £20 bilion of public money in bailout funds. He's been vilified for getting a pension worth £700,000 per year. Not as much as you'd get on Wall St but people were very angry about it. Anyway, his home's been vandalised:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edi ... 962825.stm

Some windows smashed and his car damaged but no one hurt. There's a lot of people that resent him for being so well rewarded when the bank he was in charge of is one of the main reasons for the economy tanking like it has.
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Postby tandfman » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:21 am

A view from the other side of things:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/opini ... antis.html

It is with deep regret that I submit my notice of resignation from A.I.G. Financial Products. . . .

After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company — during which A.I.G. reassured us many times we would be rewarded in March 2009 — we in the financial products unit have been betrayed by A.I.G. and are being unfairly persecuted by elected officials. In response to this, I will now leave the company and donate my entire post-tax retention payment to those suffering from the global economic downturn. My intent is to keep none of the money myself.
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Postby Pego » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:28 am

tandfman wrote:A view from the other side of things:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/opini ... antis.html

It is with deep regret that I submit my notice of resignation from A.I.G. Financial Products. . . .

After 12 months of hard work dismantling the company — during which A.I.G. reassured us many times we would be rewarded in March 2009 — we in the financial products unit have been betrayed by A.I.G. and are being unfairly persecuted by elected officials. In response to this, I will now leave the company and donate my entire post-tax retention payment to those suffering from the global economic downturn. My intent is to keep none of the money myself.


I read the entire article and he just does not get it.

1. I wonder, if he were quite so cavalier giving the money away without the public outcry.

2. The medical multispecialty group I worked for majority of my professional life had many specialties with different levels of productivity. The reimbursement system varied accordingly. Neurosurgeons and orthopods kept a lesser percentage of their productivity than say, the pediatricians. In good times, everybody retained more, in bad times less, with the same proportion. Now, if we went bankrupt and the government would come to our rescue, would those neurosurgeons claim that they still produced, while the pediatricians caused the slide, so they should still get their reward, while those pediatricians go to pasture? Rather absurd concept and that is exactly what DeSantis defends. His company went belly-up, for crying out loud. Whether he caused it or not is immaterial.

3. Sniffling about his humble origin and years of hard work, geez. How many people can say that, making a fraction of what he did. I am sure, he is not standing in a soup kitchen line.
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Postby jhc68 » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:10 am

It seems ironic that De Santis (presumably a free market kind of guy) complains about being betrayed by his employer (who, by all free market logic, should have gone belly up months ago) and by the government (since taxpayers have subsidized De Santis presumably large salary during that time).
His reaction seems childish and irrational - if he feels he deserves the jumbo bonus then he ought to keep it and stay at his job. The guy doesn't appear to grasp the situation he is in and has adopted the mentality of a spoiled kid on the playground throwing a tizzy fit: he's going to take his ball and go home and not come back anymore. That'll show 'em all !
So he quits a failed company. Does he expect wide public sympathy for playing the victim? Me, I'd be interested to see his donation of the bonus money documented. Think he will wait to see if the punitive tax laws aimed at him pass?
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Postby guru » Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:45 am

Man, I hate it when I'm right.

AIG shows $1.8 billion profit in latest quarter(first black numbers since '07), stock up 65% on the year.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32328138/ns ... -earnings/
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Postby guru » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:46 pm

eldrick wrote:
guru wrote:I really couldn't care less. The Fed makes Libor plus 850(currently around 10%), and if AIG cant pay the loans back by 2010, or they go into default, then their divisions get broken up and sold off, making a tidy profit for the government.


i don't see how on earth you can keep waffling on with this drivel

it doesn't make a shitload of difference whether fed asks for libor + 10,000, they ain't getting a red cent back !




Fed made $45 Billion in 2009.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... %3Dtopnews
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Postby cullman » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:27 am

There is potentially more trouble ahead. From the same article:

'While that resulted in higher earnings in 2009, it exposes the Fed to more risks down the road. "They've moved up the risk-return curve, as they have more long-term assets and more things that involve credit risk," said Diane Swonk, chief economist at Mesirow Financial.'

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Postby gh » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:48 pm

column in my paper this morning says Goldman Sachs is about to hand out c43% of its '09 revenues of $44B in bonuses (average of $595,000 per employee).
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Postby guru » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:12 pm

gh wrote:column in my paper this morning says Goldman Sachs is about to hand out c43% of its '09 revenues of $44B in bonuses (average of $595,000 per employee).



For the record, Goldman Sachs repaid it's TARP loan of $10 Billion in June, netting the Fed $1.42 Billion in interest.

http://bailout.propublica.org/entities/ ... dman-sachs
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Postby gh » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:26 am

Meaning that they've successfully bought their way out of any corporate responsibility and they and their cronies are now free to lead the economy down the garden path again?
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Postby guru » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:33 am

gh wrote:Meaning that they've successfully bought their way out of any corporate responsibility and they and their cronies are now free to lead the economy down the garden path again?



They personally paid you and me $1,418,055,555, and they and their cronies together have paid you and me $45 billion last year alone, for their trouble.

If they're that stupid again I'm happy to take more of their money.
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Postby Conor Dary » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:29 am

gh wrote:Meaning that they've successfully bought their way out of any corporate responsibility and they and their cronies are now free to lead the economy down the garden path again?


Hey, it is not over yet. Commercial real estate is the next zombie.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/0 ... struction/

Our banker friends still have a lot of explaining to do.

"Could you explain how Goldman bet against these C.D.O.’s while simultaneously trying to persuade ratings agencies and investors that they were good investments? Were they designed from the outset to be shorted by Goldman and possibly select clients? And were those clients involved in helping design these transactions? What explicit disclosures did you make to Standard & Poor’s and Moody’s about your plans to short these instruments? And should we continue to allow transactions in which you’re betting against what you’re also selling?"



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/busin ... n.html?dbk
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Postby gh » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:34 am

If you want more Sorkin (and "no rules of accountability"), go here for a 7-minute clip of him with Jon Stewart (in generally serious mode, which he can do very well)

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-d ... oss-sorkin
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Postby 7-sided » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:41 am

guru wrote:
gh wrote:Meaning that they've successfully bought their way out of any corporate responsibility and they and their cronies are now free to lead the economy down the garden path again?



They personally paid you and me $1,418,055,555, and they and their cronies together have paid you and me $45 billion last year alone, for their trouble.

If they're that stupid again I'm happy to take more of their money.

With the taxpayer as a guarantee backstop on their bad bets that still exist; they've paid it back, but the losses have been socialized.
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