meanwhile, AIG still knows how to spend money


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Postby sprintblox » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:20 am

tandfman wrote:There's a question I don't really know the answer to. The investments that got AIG in trouble--were they made at the holding company level or at the insurance company level?

Most probably the risky investments were not at the insurance company level. All reports indicate the insurance part is doing fine. And insurance companies are tightly regulated ... it's not likely they would have been allowed to invest any big money into those crazy mortgage securities.
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Postby bad hammy » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:19 am

guru wrote:Former AIG head bitching about the take it or take it deal the government offered.

Man I feel bad for those guys . . .
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Postby tandfman » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:55 am

It appears that they're getting a bit of a comeuppance:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/23/business/23aig.html
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Postby rasb » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:57 am

bad hammy wrote:
guru wrote:Former AIG head bitching about the take it or take it deal the government offered.

Man I feel bad for those guys . . .


Where is your sense of humanity? Some of these folks are going to have to give up their 4th vacation home, or their 7th Mercedes, or their 3rd yacht?
Have you no feelings?
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Postby gh » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:06 pm

go Cuomo for being somebody who gets it

<<...“Once a company accepts tax dollars, there are different rules,” Mr. Cuomo said. “These are taxpayers who did not voluntarily make an investment in these companies. In many ways it was a forced investment.”...>>
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Postby malmo » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:53 pm

gh wrote:go Cuomo for being somebody who gets it

<<...“Once a company accepts tax dollars, there are different rules,” Mr. Cuomo said. “These are taxpayers who did not voluntarily make an investment in these companies. In many ways it was a forced investment.”...>>


No he doesn't. I wish he had as much zeal for cracking down waste and fraud at the government trough ( forced "investments I mean to say) as he does for grandstanding over a non-issue. The State of New York will be hurting bad over Wall Streets woes. The good news is, they already magically found way to cut unnecessary spending. With each passing month, they'll find more ways.
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Postby malmo » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:57 pm

sprintblox wrote:
tandfman wrote:There's a question I don't really know the answer to. The investments that got AIG in trouble--were they made at the holding company level or at the insurance company level?

Most probably the risky investments were not at the insurance company level. All reports indicate the insurance part is doing fine. And insurance companies are tightly regulated ... it's not likely they would have been allowed to invest any big money into those crazy mortgage securities.


Unfortunately, it was an activist government that created those crazy CMO (Crazy Mortgage Obligations). Who would imagined that if you lent money to people who can't pay their bills, they wouldn't pay their bills?
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Postby Marlow » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:22 pm

malmo wrote:Who would imagined that if you lent money to people who can't pay their bills, they wouldn't pay their bills?

but, but, but, they told me, "Greed is good."
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Postby lonewolf » Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:45 pm

Unfortunately, it is not the greedy and their facilitators who are suffering. Congress got their payoff in pandering for votes. The initial lending executives took theirs off the top as they bundled and passed down the bad mortagages and then escaped with golden parachutes when the house of (bad) paper collapsed...
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Postby gh » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:35 pm

malmo wrote:
sprintblox wrote:
tandfman wrote:There's a question I don't really know the answer to. The investments that got AIG in trouble--were they made at the holding company level or at the insurance company level?

Most probably the risky investments were not at the insurance company level. All reports indicate the insurance part is doing fine. And insurance companies are tightly regulated ... it's not likely they would have been allowed to invest any big money into those crazy mortgage securities.


Unfortunately, it was an activist government that created those crazy CMO (Crazy Mortgage Obligations). Who would imagined that if you lent money to people who can't pay their bills, they wouldn't pay their bills?


Malmo, you can sprout the Wall Street company line all you want; meanwhile, us little guys are getting terminal hardons as the AIG people get smacked around.
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Postby gh » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:00 am

Another take on "corporate recognition" boondoggles:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 006&sc=583
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Postby gh » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:47 am

$165M in bonuses for AIG execs? Sure, why not?!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/busin ... ml?_r=1&hp
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Postby bad hammy » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:14 am

gh wrote:$165M in bonuses for AIG execs? Sure, why not?!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/busin ... ml?_r=1&hp

Fuckers . . .
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Postby BisonHurdler » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:36 am

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Postby jeremyp » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:56 am

gh wrote:$165M in bonuses for AIG execs? Sure, why not?!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/16/busin ... ml?_r=1&hp


Hey if you can scam the govt into giving you billions you deserve a bonus. :D
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Postby guru » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:45 pm

Just a reminder that the government is making 10% interest on the loan amount, which AIG has to repay in 2 years.
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Postby tandfman » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:04 pm

AIG apparently says they have a contractual obligation to pay those bonuses, which were agreed to before the stuff hit the fan.
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Postby guru » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:08 pm

I really couldn't care less. The Fed makes Libor plus 850(currently around 10%), and if AIG cant pay the loans back by 2010, or they go into default, then their divisions get broken up and sold off, making a tidy profit for the government.
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Postby tandfman » Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:02 pm

Not so fast, AIG. Mr. Obama is going to try to stop the bonus payments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/us/po ... obama.html
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Postby guru » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:40 pm

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Postby gm » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:49 pm



What an inane thing for Grassley to say. Using his logic, with the way Congress is spending, they should all do "the honorable thing" as well.
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Postby guru » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:37 pm

Grassley's memory apparently doesn't go back to 1999.
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Postby tandfman » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:50 am

Here's an argument for paying the bonuses:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/busin ... orkin.html
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Postby gh » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:17 am

<<“We cannot attract and retain the best and brightest talent to lead and staff” the company “if employees believe that their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the U.S. Treasury,” he said.>>

To quote Jon Stewart's closing in his rants against CNBC: "Fuck you!"

In the kleptocracy that is Wall Street it was the "best and brightest" who led the country down the primrose path. I'd sure hate to see what trouble we'd be in if they had hired people with scruples.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:36 am

It felt so good to read that expletive i have to join in. To the incompetent and most likely corrupt suits who still want their bonus's that were promised.......FUCK YOU!
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Postby jeremyp » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:41 am

The biggest fall out of the bonus scandal may be Obama's economic plan. While we should all be outraged at AIG, we should not shoot ourselves in the foot and put a halt to stabilizing the financial sector. If it fails, the economy fails.
Look at China, while we fiddle around slowed by the vagaries of Democracy, they create stimulus bills without opposition, and are now buying up many good deals world wide in a "fire sale." And that's with "our" dollars, not theirs.

SHANGHAI -- Chinese companies have been on a shopping spree in the past month, snapping up tens of billions of dollars' worth of key assets in Iran, Brazil, Russia, Venezuela, Australia and France in a global fire sale set off by the financial crisis.

The deals have allowed China to lock up supplies of oil, minerals, metals and other strategic natural resources it needs to continue to fuel its growth. The sheer scope of the agreements marks a shift in global finance, roiling energy markets and feeding worries about the future availability and prices of those commodities in other countries that compete for them, including the United States.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03293.html
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Postby Daisy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:47 am

SQUACKEE wrote:To the incompetent and most likely corrupt suits who still want their bonus's that were promised....


Do we really know for sure that they were incompetent? Maybe they were just corrupt?
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:52 am

Daisy wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:To the incompetent and most likely corrupt suits who still want their bonus's that were promised....


Do we really know for sure that they were incompetent? Maybe they were just corrupt?


Good point! Could be both and either or a wonderful mix of shit.
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Postby Pego » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:25 am

Daisy wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:To the incompetent and most likely corrupt suits who still want their bonus's that were promised....


Do we really know for sure that they were incompetent? Maybe they were just corrupt?


Fine with me. Incompetent ones get fired, the corrupt ones imprisoned. Neither option calls for a bonus.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:28 am

Another idea: create a special AIG Bonus Tax!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/17/ ... index.html
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Postby gh » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:08 am

73 AIG execs got a million bucks each; 11 no longer even work for the company

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:40 am

gh wrote:73 AIG execs got a million bucks each

At LEAST a million each. Largest was $6.4 mil.
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Postby paulthefan » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:14 pm

AIG, Merril Lynch, Leh, etc. CEOs gave themselves massive, multi-million dollar bonuses for 30hours per week of work, the remainder performed on the golf course while they were driving their companies into the dirt. The Fed's "martket's" response was to give them billions in taxpayer dollars from joe sixpack's daughter's college fund. Sounds like a great business plan, what american CEO would not try to parlay that into a double.. one more time
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Postby guru » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:47 pm

paulthefan wrote:The Fed's "martket's" response was to give them billions in taxpayer dollars from joe sixpack's daughter's college fund.



No they didn't. The Fed "created" the funds, and electronically transferred them to the institutions. No actual taxpayer funds have been used(so far). Normally inflationary, but not in this environment.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:37 pm

guru wrote:Normally inflationary, but not in this environment.

We hope.
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Postby eldrick » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:01 pm

guru wrote:I really couldn't care less. The Fed makes Libor plus 850(currently around 10%), and if AIG cant pay the loans back by 2010, or they go into default, then their divisions get broken up and sold off, making a tidy profit for the government.


i don't see how on earth you can keep waffling on with this drivel

it doesn't make a shitload of difference whether fed asks for libor + 10,000, they ain't getting a red cent back !

i never looked at this ugly named topic before but it seems to never die, so it looked a view on a leisurely friday

looking at near 100 posts here, no one has actually bothered to get to the colonel ( or even kernel ) of aig's death ???

i've been e-mailed addenda from a general 'broker for months ( along with any other guy who opens an account ) - post it next
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Postby guru » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:19 pm

eldrick wrote:[it doesn't make a shitload of difference whether fed asks for libor + 10,000, they ain't getting a red cent back !



If that's the case(and it may well be) there will be a nice yard sale on the front steps of the Fed in a couple of years(or sooner). I'm sure those coveted insurance divisions will fetch a pretty penny.
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Postby eldrick » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:04 pm

eh ?

- house/contents/car/pooch insurance division worth maybe for argument's sake $10 billion

- let's not beat about bush here - mexican cottonpickers on few $/week getting $500k mortages off 0 deposit on proviso they can repay monthly mortgage for 25y ( on guarantee they'd stuff house wth 1/2 dozen cottonpickers, constantly, to pay it back ) - worth $100 billion

banks ( name them yourself - citigroup, merill, lehman, etc) accepted these mortgages & deluded themselves into thinking they had rock-solid/ricardo montalban clients

wrapped these shit mortgages into bonds, which rating companies like moody's, standard & poor's, fitch's didn't do due diligence & accepted banks' word of reliability & wrapped this crap into AAA ( treasury status ) or even AAB ( top-junk )

AAA/AAB has to have an insurer for failure - considered impossible for this quality of product

aig were just poor suckers who stepped up to the plate...
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Postby guru » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:54 am

AIG execs/regulators testifying before congress today, including CEO Liddy. On CSPAN 3.
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Postby gh » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:21 am

Cartoon on the breaking of "guaranteed" contracts (as in, white-collar vs. blue)

http://wpcomics.washingtonpost.com/clie ... 009/03/17/
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