French Riots


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French Riots

Postby oneill » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:14 am

As an interesting footnote to the recent civil unrest in France, and the complaints of those of North African origin who feel that they are being discriminated against, it is worthwhile to mention that the French team which won the Senior Mens race in the 2005 European Cross-Country Championships was entirely composed of runners of North African origin, to judge by the names.

What do we make of this?
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Postby gh » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:17 am

I guess it explains why the cops have so much trouble chasing down the protesters. :-)
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Postby Daisy » Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:28 am

gh wrote:I guess it explains why the cops have so much trouble chasing down the protesters. :-)

Obviously this guy is a genetic outlier.
Image
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french riots

Postby cornstarchwilson » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:15 pm

i wouldn't be surprised that dispite the "north africanness" of their names those runners were born and raised in france. in fact, france fought the natives of tunisia, morocco and algeria under the belief the these areas of north africa were a part of france and therefore "french". the parents and grand parents of many of the rioters came to france because they fought on the losing french side.

my impression from reading about the "riots" is that part of the resentment stems from the realization that some residents of france were not considered "french", are not considered "french", will never be considered "french", no matter what.
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Re: french riots

Postby KevinM » Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:43 pm

cornstarchwilson wrote:i wouldn't be surprised that dispite the "north africanness" of their names those runners were born and raised in france.


I don't know about the others, but Driss Maazouzi was born in Morocco.
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Postby carfu » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:56 pm

Bouabdellah Tahri and Khalid Zoubaa were born in France.
Driss El Himer, Irba Lakhal and Driss Maazouzi were born in Morocco and came to France as adults.
Mokhtar Benhari was born in Morocco, but I don't know how old he was when he arrived in France.
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Re: french riots

Postby mump boy » Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:37 am

my impression from reading about the "riots" is that part of the resentment stems from the realization that some residents of france were not considered "french", are not considered "french", will never be considered "french", no matter what.[/quote]


actually the very opposite has been a major contributinbg factor in the unrest.

according to thr french constitution all citizens are equal, therefore positive discrimination is illegal, the census doesn't acknowledge racial background and there is no effort made to survey unemployment, poverty, education of any groups as they are all 'equal' anyway.

there is a real sense that through discrimination a generation of french born but ethnically foriegn citizens are being left behind, with no official recognition of the fact and no government initiatives to do anything about it.
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Re: french riots

Postby Pego » Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:04 am

mump boy wrote:my impression from reading about the "riots" is that part of the resentment stems from the realization that some residents of france were not considered "french", are not considered "french", will never be considered "french", no matter what.



actually the very opposite has been a major contributinbg factor in the unrest.

according to thr french constitution all citizens are equal, therefore positive discrimination is illegal, the census doesn't acknowledge racial background and there is no effort made to survey unemployment, poverty, education of any groups as they are all 'equal' anyway.

there is a real sense that through discrimination a generation of french born but ethnically foriegn citizens are being left behind, with no official recognition of the fact and no government initiatives to do anything about it.[/quote]


Perhaps they could use some affirmative action, no?
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Postby Jacksf » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:44 am

Affirmative Action is not the answer to anything.
It is just reverse discrimination.

Ending one discrimination by supporting another, is by definition, BAD thinking.

By the way, it seem to me that the entire French National track team is ethnically African, north or otherwise. So, no discrimination there.
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Re: french riots

Postby EPelle » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:57 am

mump boy wrote:my impression from reading about the "riots" is that part of the resentment stems from the realization that some residents of france were not considered "french", are not considered "french", will never be considered "french", no matter what.

Same can be said most anywhere around the world, I am sure. Here in Göteborg, for example, we have many from: Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Baltics, Africa and Turkey. Clash of cultures on many fronts, and many people could feel alienated if left there on their own. That is just it, however: hard to find people here left on their own -- people migrate to those areas where they feel most comfortable (Angered, for example - though Christian Olsson also grew up there).

Folks congregate together and keep their cultures alive within the confines of their own neighborhoods and own districts. No one is rioting here due to feeling left out and not feeling like Average Anders. Average Anders, to them, has no style, and leads a boring life.
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french riots

Postby cornstarchwilson » Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:57 pm

there is no such thing as an African ethic group. Africa is a continent.
France is a national state, not an ethnic group.
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Re: french riots

Postby paulthefan » Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:18 pm

EPelle wrote: Here in Göteborg, for example, we have many from: Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Baltics, Africa and Turkey. Clash of cultures on many fronts, and many people could feel alienated if left there on their own. That is just it, however: hard to find people here left on their own -- people migrate to those areas where they feel most comfortable (Angered, for example - though Christian Olsson also grew up there).

Folks congregate together and keep their cultures alive within the confines of their own neighborhoods and own districts. No one is rioting here due to feeling left out and not feeling like Average Anders. Average Anders, to them, has no style, and leads a boring life.[/size]




Be patient my friend be patient...in due time when that wonderful bouquet of diverse cultures is in full bloom those bored sensless will have plenty of excitment on their hands ;)
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