Two Jamaica athletes tested positive for Banned substances!


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Postby Speedfirst » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:03 am

track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:A banned substance could technically be a PED, as we know there are both legal and illegal performance enhancers.

If a said banned substance enhanced your peformance, than of course it's a performane enhancer, only question then is, what is the substance.


Ya thats the interesting part.
Im NOT making any accusations here, just stating that if anyone like usain, tyson, asafa or other not-so-big guys tested positive for a anabolic steroid, i'd be shocked outa my mind. For obvious reasons, if you ever watch a clip of these guys in the weight room :lol:


Again this isn't limited to anabolic steriods and I for one wouldn't even begin to think that.

This is so much manipulation with respect to peptides and really going right to the very edge, that would surprise you.
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Postby toyracer » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:05 am

shearer39 wrote:
TrainerPhil wrote:Like many of you trying to find out what is going on, I placed several phone calls this morning. I just got word from someone who works for the JAAA that they are still currently unaware of any positive tests. That doesn't mean they don't exist. But protocol would have been for the JAAA to be notified so they would inturn notify the athletes. As of 11:15 est (10:15 jamaican time) the JAAA is unaware of any positive tests.

Now, all this could mean is that the info got leaked before the JAAA could be properly notified.But before we draw any conclusions, I guess it's wise that we wait for an official report. As it stands now, these reports are 100% speculation.



This is solid info. Five athletes are being flown back to Jamaica as fast as possible to face a hearing. After this a statement will be released with regards to their situation. The situation is the athletes were taking a product that was approved for consumption (by whom it is not clear). Also none of them failed tests in Europe where they have been participating in competition since July.


Okay, which is the "solid info"? That the JAAA has not been notified as of 45 minutes ago, or that the five athletes are flying back to Jamaica? It can't be both. I'm just asking for clarification.

As an aside; given the time elapsed since trials and the positive test result now, is it safe to assume that "none of them failed tests in Europe" since the trials? Wouldn't post-trials test results take a similar amount of time to be known?
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Postby Speedfirst » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:07 am

track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:As long as there is a willing mind to use PED's, there will be a way/s. This applies to the individual and is not a slight on any particular country.

Cheating is simply a part of sports, life, a pathetic part, but a part, none the less.


Hey if everyone in the class has a answer sheet to a test would you choose to do it fairly and not cheat? Doing so only leaves you behind everyone else.


Are you asking if it were known, everyone had an answer sheet? But even I did know, I wouldn't use the answer sheet, if everyone decided to jump off a bridge, I wouldn't.
Last edited by Speedfirst on Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby track_expert » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:12 am

Speedfirst wrote:
track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:A banned substance could technically be a PED, as we know there are both legal and illegal performance enhancers.

If a said banned substance enhanced your peformance, than of course it's a performane enhancer, only question then is, what is the substance.


Ya thats the interesting part.
Im NOT making any accusations here, just stating that if anyone like usain, tyson, asafa or other not-so-big guys tested positive for a anabolic steroid, i'd be shocked outa my mind. For obvious reasons, if you ever watch a clip of these guys in the weight room :lol:


Again this isn't limited to anabolic steriods and I for one wouldn't even begin to think that.

This is so much manipulation with respect to peptides and really going right to the very edge, that would surprise you.



I was just going specific on anabolics, I know PEDs go much much further than simply anabolic steroids.
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Postby Jerome Marrow » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:14 am

track_expert wrote:
Jerome Marrow wrote:
track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:A banned substance could technically be a PED, as we know there are both legal and illegal performance enhancers.

If a said banned substance enhanced your peformance, than of course it's a performane enhancer, only question then is, what is the substance.


Ya thats the interesting part.
Im NOT making any accusations here, just stating that if anyone like usain, tyson, asafa or other not-so-big guys tested positive for a anabolic steroid, i'd be shocked outa my mind. For obvious reasons, if you ever watch a clip of these guys in the weight room :lol:


Wow you just proved you know nothing about this.

What do you know about Tyson in the weightroom? Wait, you saw a small clip of him with drummond. Yeah.....


My mistake on Tyson, but is it really a lot to assume he doesnt have MUCH starting strength? If he was squatting 500 pounds im sure his start would be much much better and much greater acceleration power. And if a guy with little starting strength was pumping up anabolic drugs, you'd expect to see some improvement in that area, no?


Shawn Crawford tested positive in 05 for AAS, is very strong in the weightroom, and has a horrible start.

Justin Gatlin tested positive for testosterone, did not have a start as good as Gay's, and was also quite strong in the weightroom.

Get your nonsense out of here.
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Postby track_expert » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:14 am

Speedfirst wrote:
track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:As long as there is a willing mind to use PED's, there will be a way/s. This applies to the individual and is not a slight on any particular country.

Cheating is simply a part of sports, life, a pathetic part, but a part, none the less.


Hey if everyone in the class has a answer sheet to a test would you choose to do it fairly and not cheat? Doing so only leaves you behind everyone else.


Are you asking if it were known, everyone had an answer sheet? But even I did know, I wouldn't use the answer sheet, even everyone decided to jump off a bridge, I wouldn't.


Now if this were a competition for money, etc. you'd reconsider that.
Regardless its a analogy, and most people, although may not admit, would use a answer sheet. If you're so smart you can get the best mark without the answer sheet, then you're fine. Much like having incredibly superior talent. But since most people are borderline, the choice is, to cheat and succeed, or go clean and fail.
The teacher sitting there simply hopes no one is cheating at all and everyone studied for their test.
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Postby skiboo » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:15 am

Speedfirst wrote:Are you asking if it were known, everyone had an answer sheet? But even I did know, I wouldn't use the answer sheet, if everyone decided to jump off a bridge, I wouldn't.


What advantage do you gain from following everyone off a bridge? Unless you were suicidal and having a hard time following through, it's a strange analogy.
Last edited by skiboo on Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gordon18 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:15 am

track_expert wrote:
TrainerPhil wrote:I guess many of us would like to believe that MOST of the top track and field athletes do what they do clean. If they were all dirty, then what's the point of even watching anymore?


Its not as if they are getting robot legs, its drugs/PEDs and there are many things that can be classified as a PED that arent banned.
I watch to see for same reason as everyone, if they're dirty, doesnt matter to me one bit, just means faster times in the end. The one thng that matters to me is getting caught, as long as they're not caught, its 100% fine to me whatever they choose to do.


lol did you read my post, unless you're joking, we probably have exact the same views on this subject but aren't you a former athlete? i thought you would be against athletes doping etc
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Postby Speedfirst » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:16 am

track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:
track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:A banned substance could technically be a PED, as we know there are both legal and illegal performance enhancers.

If a said banned substance enhanced your peformance, than of course it's a performane enhancer, only question then is, what is the substance.


Ya thats the interesting part.
Im NOT making any accusations here, just stating that if anyone like usain, tyson, asafa or other not-so-big guys tested positive for a anabolic steroid, i'd be shocked outa my mind. For obvious reasons, if you ever watch a clip of these guys in the weight room :lol:


Again this isn't limited to anabolic steriods and I for one wouldn't even begin to think that.

This is so much manipulation with respect to peptides and really going right to the very edge, that would surprise you.



I was just going specific on anabolics, I know PEDs go much much further than simply anabolic steroids.


Well that may or may not even be the case with each athlete, with respect to the massiveness/ripped look. You still may get some benefits of the anabolic use and manipulate to some extent how your body looks.
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Postby marknhj » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:17 am

track_expert wrote:Sorry to break the reality to you but if everyone who used SOME form of PED was caught (goes further than whats on the banned list), you wouldnt have NEARLY as many top sprinters with the times that you see now.


You're so kind. I greatly appreciate your lesson on the "reality" of drug taking in athletics...

But you didn't answer my question. Why are you only sad because they were caught?
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Postby freddykruger77 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:19 am

Sources have disclosed to me personally that the substance in question was from an energy drink. It was not on the banned list at the time of taking, however it was subsequently added and therefore the test results came back positive. It is said that 7 athletes in total have tested positive.
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Postby track_expert » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:19 am

Jerome Marrow wrote:
track_expert wrote:
Jerome Marrow wrote:
track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:A banned substance could technically be a PED, as we know there are both legal and illegal performance enhancers.

If a said banned substance enhanced your peformance, than of course it's a performane enhancer, only question then is, what is the substance.


Ya thats the interesting part.
Im NOT making any accusations here, just stating that if anyone like usain, tyson, asafa or other not-so-big guys tested positive for a anabolic steroid, i'd be shocked outa my mind. For obvious reasons, if you ever watch a clip of these guys in the weight room :lol:


Wow you just proved you know nothing about this.

What do you know about Tyson in the weightroom? Wait, you saw a small clip of him with drummond. Yeah.....


My mistake on Tyson, but is it really a lot to assume he doesnt have MUCH starting strength? If he was squatting 500 pounds im sure his start would be much much better and much greater acceleration power. And if a guy with little starting strength was pumping up anabolic drugs, you'd expect to see some improvement in that area, no?


Shawn Crawford tested positive in 05 for AAS, is very strong in the weightroom, and has a horrible start.

Justin Gatlin tested positive for testosterone, did not have a start as good as Gay's, and was also quite strong in the weightroom.

Get your nonsense out of here.


When did crawford test positive?
Whats your notes on crawford's squatting numbers?

Also i wasnt talking about the reaction to the gun, there's the force application onto the blocks/first step, there's the first 10m, first 30m on the whole, and ability to transit efficiently from drive phase onto upright position.
And also stride length (which gatlin certainly had covered),
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Postby track_expert » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:20 am

freddykruger77 wrote:Sources have disclosed to me personally that the substance in question was from an energy drink. It was not on the banned list at the time of taking, however it was subsequently added and therefore the test results came back positive. It is said that 7 athletes in total have tested positive.


Wasnt it first 2 athletes, then 5? and now 7!?
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Postby Speedfirst » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:21 am

skiboo wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:Are you asking if it were known, everyone had an answer sheet? But even I did know, I wouldn't use the answer sheet, if everyone decided to jump off a bridge, I wouldn't.


What advantage do you gain from following everyone off a bridge? Unless you were suicidal and having a hard time following through, it's a strange analogy.


You're missing the point, here''s MY point, not being a follower and also my integrity. So in other words, if you follow someone here, you'll follow the next person there. If the analogy is strange to you, well to bad.
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Postby track_expert » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:22 am

Speedfirst wrote:
skiboo wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:Are you asking if it were known, everyone had an answer sheet? But even I did know, I wouldn't use the answer sheet, if everyone decided to jump off a bridge, I wouldn't.


What advantage do you gain from following everyone off a bridge? Unless you were suicidal and having a hard time following through, it's a strange analogy.


You're missing the point, here''s MY point, not being a follower and also my integrity. So in other words, if you follow someone here, you'll follow the next person there. If the analogy is strange to you, well to bad.


Doesnt mean you have to be a follower, anyone who does anything like that because of others is a downright idiot. It's your own deicsion based on what you need to do.
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Postby freddykruger77 » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:23 am

track_expert wrote:
freddykruger77 wrote:Sources have disclosed to me personally that the substance in question was from an energy drink. It was not on the banned list at the time of taking, however it was subsequently added and therefore the test results came back positive. It is said that 7 athletes in total have tested positive.


Wasnt it first 2 athletes, then 5? and now 7!?


That is correct and apparently they are all from the same camp.
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Postby Speedfirst » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:25 am

track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:
skiboo wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:Are you asking if it were known, everyone had an answer sheet? But even I did know, I wouldn't use the answer sheet, if everyone decided to jump off a bridge, I wouldn't.


What advantage do you gain from following everyone off a bridge? Unless you were suicidal and having a hard time following through, it's a strange analogy.


You're missing the point, here''s MY point, not being a follower and also my integrity. So in other words, if you follow someone here, you'll follow the next person there. If the analogy is strange to you, well to bad.


Doesnt mean you have to be a follower, anyone who does anything like that because of others is a downright idiot. It's your own deicsion based on what you need to do.


Of course it is, but you did present the scenario stating if others had a cheat sheet. Why not simply ask would you cheat, not present it with a stipulation.
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Postby Blimpie » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:37 am

freddykruger77 wrote:
track_expert wrote:
freddykruger77 wrote:Sources have disclosed to me personally that the substance in question was from an energy drink. It was not on the banned list at the time of taking, however it was subsequently added and therefore the test results came back positive. It is said that 7 athletes in total have tested positive.


Wasnt it first 2 athletes, then 5? and now 7!?


That is correct and apparently they are all from the same camp.
[


If this is true about the sport drink and the stated banned list notification, who is responsible for such a mix up?. How this is going to be justified?

This is a very big time mess.

Bolt, Anderson, Blake, Chambers and Gonzales are from Mills camp. [/quote]
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Postby Tammy_Baby » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:39 am

so blimpie you're fingering the mills camp without proof?
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Postby Jerome Marrow » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:43 am

track_expert wrote:
Jerome Marrow wrote:
track_expert wrote:
Jerome Marrow wrote:
track_expert wrote:
Speedfirst wrote:A banned substance could technically be a PED, as we know there are both legal and illegal performance enhancers.

If a said banned substance enhanced your peformance, than of course it's a performane enhancer, only question then is, what is the substance.


Ya thats the interesting part.
Im NOT making any accusations here, just stating that if anyone like usain, tyson, asafa or other not-so-big guys tested positive for a anabolic steroid, i'd be shocked outa my mind. For obvious reasons, if you ever watch a clip of these guys in the weight room :lol:


Wow you just proved you know nothing about this.

What do you know about Tyson in the weightroom? Wait, you saw a small clip of him with drummond. Yeah.....


My mistake on Tyson, but is it really a lot to assume he doesnt have MUCH starting strength? If he was squatting 500 pounds im sure his start would be much much better and much greater acceleration power. And if a guy with little starting strength was pumping up anabolic drugs, you'd expect to see some improvement in that area, no?


Shawn Crawford tested positive in 05 for AAS, is very strong in the weightroom, and has a horrible start.

Justin Gatlin tested positive for testosterone, did not have a start as good as Gay's, and was also quite strong in the weightroom.

Get your nonsense out of here.


When did crawford test positive?
Whats your notes on crawford's squatting numbers?
Yes, but don't let USATF fool you. This was addressed previously.

They aren't really notes. They are what I saw with my eyes. The weights were huge and he still had a piss poor start. I'd tell you the workouts I saw, but then you would go spouting it off on every goddamn forum.
Also i wasnt talking about the reaction to the gun, there's the force application onto the blocks/first step, there's the first 10m, first 30m on the whole, and ability to transit efficiently from drive phase onto upright position.
And also stride length (which gatlin certainly had covered),


Look at Gatlin's best 30m time. Slower than Gay's best, even when you factor in rxn. Gay consistently has a better start than Gatlin did, not to say that either have particularly incredible starts for their level in the 100m (they aren't going sub 3.8 to 30m).
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