MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
I think that the reason is quite clear. If the kick the whole team out of the Games then the powers that be in Russia will be much more protective of their resource, which either means making sure that the doping is not detected (apparently that is not working) or put a lot more pressure to not dope. It would be a disaster for those that run the sport in Russia and if they have a hand in this (i.e., if the doping is 'systematic') then they deserve to be kicked out at some point. Have we reached that point with Russia? Quite possibly, or at least they are getting close. I suspect that there has been some communication with Russia about the consequences.
On a sinister note, betting interests might try to knock out lead contenders to make money, so getting systematic might mean something not identical to just the number of positives. Note, however, that the sample-switching episode tends to fit into to 'systematic' category.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
I think that the reason is quite clear. If the kick the whole team out of the Games then the powers that be in Russia will be much more protective of their resource, which either means making sure that the doping is not detected (apparently that is not working) or put a lot more pressure to not dope. It would be a disaster for those that run the sport in Russia and if they have a hand in this (i.e., if the doping is 'systematic') then they deserve to be kicked out at some point. Have we reached that point with Russia? Quite possibly, or at least they are getting close. I suspect that there has been some communication with Russia about the consequences.
On a sinister note, betting interests might try to knock out lead contenders to make money, so getting systematic might mean something not identical to just the number of positives. Note, however, that the sample-switching episode tends to fit into to 'systematic' category.
It makes no sense to kick out an all team....this is individual sport.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
I think that the reason is quite clear. If the kick the whole team out of the Games then the powers that be in Russia will be much more protective of their resource, which either means making sure that the doping is not detected (apparently that is not working) or put a lot more pressure to not dope. It would be a disaster for those that run the sport in Russia and if they have a hand in this (i.e., if the doping is 'systematic') then they deserve to be kicked out at some point. Have we reached that point with Russia? Quite possibly, or at least they are getting close. I suspect that there has been some communication with Russia about the consequences.
On a sinister note, betting interests might try to knock out lead contenders to make money, so getting systematic might mean something not identical to just the number of positives. Note, however, that the sample-switching episode tends to fit into to 'systematic' category.
It makes no sense to kick out an all team....this is individual sport.
I just gave you a reason for kicking the team off. The sport is not run as 20000 different groups, one for each athlete. There is a federation at the top and if it looks like there is organized doping or lack of systematic attempt to stop dopping, and Russia fits some of the characteristics, like requiring a Visa, then the federation is responsible. Kicking out only those that test positive when they are not doing their job adequately is rewarding those that have the power and resources to do the job.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
I think that the reason is quite clear. If the kick the whole team out of the Games then the powers that be in Russia will be much more protective of their resource, which either means making sure that the doping is not detected (apparently that is not working) or put a lot more pressure to not dope. It would be a disaster for those that run the sport in Russia and if they have a hand in this (i.e., if the doping is 'systematic') then they deserve to be kicked out at some point. Have we reached that point with Russia? Quite possibly, or at least they are getting close. I suspect that there has been some communication with Russia about the consequences.
On a sinister note, betting interests might try to knock out lead contenders to make money, so getting systematic might mean something not identical to just the number of positives. Note, however, that the sample-switching episode tends to fit into to 'systematic' category.
It makes no sense to kick out an all team....this is individual sport.
I just gave you a reason for kicking the team off. The sport is not run as 20000 different groups, one for each athlete. There is a federation at the top and if it looks like there is organized doping or lack of systematic attempt to stop dopping, and Russia fits some of the characteristics, like requiring a Visa, then the federation is responsible. Kicking out only those that test positive when they are not doing their job adequately is rewarding those that have the power and resources to do the job.
Didn't Iaaf gave the world champions 2013 to Balakhnichev?isn't Balakhnichev one of the most important figures in the iaaf?
The race walkers and usov dope cases were detected by Russia,
Tiago wrote:... Didn't Iaaf gave the world champions 2013 to Balakhnichev?isn't Balakhnichev one of the most important figures in the iaaf?...,
No, the IAAF gave the '13 WC to the Russian Federation. As a first-year Council member, I would guess that Balakhnichev is not one of the most important figures in the IAAF.
Unless of course he's also the president of the Russian bank that was behind the winning bid!
9 clean medals...then of course comes Sadova,Samitova,Petrova,Andrianova.
15-20 medals for russia in the end,it couyld be 30 at full squad. [/quote]
Well, Tiago, do not discard the chances of Chernova, Volkova, Borchin, Guschina, Chicherova, Feofanova, Sibileva and the 4x400 m (W)... or even Abakumova... In an ideal competition, Russia could still get close to 30...
To all of those suggesting Russia's athletics team should be kicked out of Beijing, please... Inocent people should never pay for the guilty ones. You cannot seriously believe all 105 of the current squad are doped...??
Imagine if Jamaica's sprinting (100-200 m, M & W) clan was found with steroids... Would you send the entire team home??
Is it just because this is powerful, once dominant Russia? Would you like to have a "walk in the park" like in LA 1984? In a sport where we have all gotten use to the worst ever since Ben Johnson's case in 1988, what is the point of being so moralistic?? We all know there is a LOT of drugs in our sport! (Look at all US 400 m runners that have retrospectively been DQed...) Lets just DQ the ones found guilty and, as in LAW, presume the INNOCENCE of those never caught!
Bruno wrote: To all of those suggesting Russia's athletics team should be kicked out of Beijing, please... Inocent people should never pay for the guilty ones. You cannot seriously believe all 105 of the current squad are doped...??
Absolutely not, but it is an effective deterrent and which is why it has been used in other sports- I fail to see why athletics is any different
Imagine if Jamaica's sprinting (100-200 m, M & W) clan was found with steroids... Would you send the entire team home??
Yes, yes I would ! If it was on the same en masse scale. I still think the US got off lightly thanks to the Balco stuff but to be honest, it was all connected (mostly) to a couple of training groups- this Russian fiasco seems to be completely unrelated athletes who are being warned about drug testing- either thanks to a country's visa policies and a leak there or something more sinister and higher up...
9 clean medals...then of course comes Sadova,Samitova,Petrova,Andrianova.
15-20 medals for russia in the end,it couyld be 30 at full squad.
Well, Tiago, do not discard the chances of Chernova, Volkova, Borchin, Guschina, Chicherova, Feofanova, Sibileva and the 4x400 m (W)... or even Abakumova... In an ideal competition, Russia could still get close to 30...
To all of those suggesting Russia's athletics team should be kicked out of Beijing, please... Inocent people should never pay for the guilty ones. You cannot seriously believe all 105 of the current squad are doped...??
Imagine if Jamaica's sprinting (100-200 m, M & W) clan was found with steroids... Would you send the entire team home??
Is it just because this is powerful, once dominant Russia? Would you like to have a "walk in the park" like in LA 1984? In a sport where we have all gotten use to the worst ever since Ben Johnson's case in 1988, what is the point of being so moralistic?? We all know there is a LOT of drugs in our sport! (Look at all US 400 m runners that have retrospectively been DQed...) Lets just DQ the ones found guilty and, as in LAW, presume the INNOCENCE of those never caught!
Cheers, Bruno. (My first post! - Hi everyone...)
Yeah,i agree.
Looks like Iaaf doesn't have any suspicious about the rest of russian delegation.........
But Russia neds to clean their athletic federation after the olympics.
If you folks are so comfortable heading down the slippery slope of punishing the innocent, why not just take it a step further? Let's have the IOC toss out the whole stinkin' mess of T&F/Athletics for a few years! It's obvious that the whole sport's dirty, and while people can't help what country they were born in, they do have a choice about what sport they take up. So while we're throwing out the Russians, let's get rid of the Greeks, Americans, Australians, English, Irish, Portugese and Swedes too! That ought to convince the IAAF to get serious about getting its house in order.
BruceFlorman wrote:If you folks are so comfortable heading down the slippery slope of punishing the innocent, why not just take it a step further? Let's have the IOC toss out the whole stinkin' mess of T&F/Athletics for a few years! It's obvious that the whole sport's dirty, and while people can't help what country they were born in, they do have a choice about what sport they take up. So while we're throwing out the Russians, let's get rid of the Greeks, Americans, Australians, English, Irish, Portugese and Swedes too! That ought to convince the IAAF to get serious about getting its house in order.
Thank you, Bruce, for your bit of sanity here.
As far as I'm concerned, throw out the Brits and the Canucks FIRST! They seem to have the most hatred towards the Russians! People who are so vindictive must be guilty themselves!!!
BruceFlorman wrote:If you folks are so comfortable heading down the slippery slope of punishing the innocent, why not just take it a step further? Let's have the IOC toss out the whole stinkin' mess of T&F/Athletics for a few years! It's obvious that the whole sport's dirty, and while people can't help what country they were born in, they do have a choice about what sport they take up. So while we're throwing out the Russians, let's get rid of the Greeks, Americans, Australians, English, Irish, Portugese and Swedes too! That ought to convince the IAAF to get serious about getting its house in order.
Thank you, Bruce, for your bit of sanity here.
As far as I'm concerned, throw out the Brits and the Canucks FIRST! They seem to have the most hatred towards the Russians! People who are so vindictive must be guilty themselves!!!
Lots of smug people here calling for the Russian team to be kicked out. And just how many dirty soot-covered little polluters are running for their countries?
Well, the whole Olympic angle aside, this is just depressing.
I feel like all Russian marks made over the last few years now may have some measure of doubt cast about them. I have a few favorite athletes that I just don't want to have doubts about, so this really sucks.
Surely other athletes/coaches/teams/federations are employing similar strategies as we speak.
Just reminds me how the fragile ideals of T&F continue to be torn away.
Half Miler wrote:Well, the whole Olympic angle aside, this is just depressing.
You can say that again. Things aren't going so swimmingly here in South Ossetia either.
MOSCOW, Aug. 8 -- Russia launched airstrikes Friday deep inside Georgia and mobilized columns of tanks after Georgian forces embarked on a major offensive ...
Yeah. That weird. I didn't even hear about it until today, although it was on the news when that steeplechaser got caught. Maybe because she hadn't qualified to the olympics. There aren't so many javerin trowers caught lately (or thay haven't been that good and therefore haven't heard of them). This is bad.
