more trouble in Russia


This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; it's back to being locked.

Postby BruceFlorman » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:29 am

Daisy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:For instance, there was comment that the urine was unusually clear.

So better targeting and testing. Another reason I read for WADA to target the Russians was that the testers found they were always available for random tests. Apparently this is unusual and that made them suspicious the athletes were being tipped off. But how would they know? The Russians have spies in WADA? Or the Russians monitor the border for known WADA testers? Either scenario would be really bad for the Russian Athletics Federation.

One of the articles from the weekend quoted a WADA spokesman complaining about the fact that their inspectors needed visas to get into Russia. Now it's been a long time since I traveled anywhere that required a visa, so I don't recall what the procedures were then, and whatever they were, they may well have changed in the intervening quarter century. But is it not possible that some underpaid low-level bureaucrat working in the visa office figured out how to recognize the applications from WADA inspectors and decided to start a business on the side? This would, I suppose, constitute "systematic" doping, but it doesn't require a massive conspiracy within the All-Russian Athletics Federation.

As for all the folks expressing dismay about the reaction of the ARAF and Russian press – I wonder what the reaction of USATF and the American press would have been had something similar happened eight years ago. Imagine if ten days before the Sydney opening ceremony the IAAF had “temporarily suspended” Marion Jones, without any semblance of Due Process? I know that a huge number of the posters here now claim to have known all along that she was a cheat, but I imagine the reaction would’ve been pretty negative toward the IAAF/WADA if the tables were turned at that time.
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Postby gh » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:33 am

Nations which require visas have long been a problem for international testers. Suspicions that the minute the app is made, the sporting bodies are put on alert.
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:53 am

Главный тренер легкоатлетической сборной России Валентин Маслаков опроверг появившуюся в СМИ информацию о том, что российский ходок на 20 километров Валерий Борчин пропустит Олимпиаду в Пекине из-за проблем с допингом.

- По состоянию на 14.30 по Москве во вторник Борчин остается в команде и готовится к старту в Пекине, - заявил Маслаков корреспонденту ТК «Спорт» Ольге Богословской. - Что касается ходока на 50 километров Владимира Канайкина, то мы его давно поменяли на Сергей Кирдяпкина.

Борчин отобрался в команду, заняв второе место на Кубке мира этого года, который проходил в Чебоксарах. Он является реальным претендентом на медали Олимпиады в Пекине.

Двумя часами позже эту информацию подтвердил президент ВФЛА Валентин Балахничев. "Сообщения об отстранении Борчина не соответствуют действительности", - заявил он по телефону корреспонденту ТК "Спорт".

The great and unique Valentin Maslakov. 8-) 8-) :lol:

So Borchin will go the olympics and kanaykin had been already replace by Kidryapkina....so no problem for Russia.

Balakhnichev confirms.

Voyevodin is not in the olympic team.
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Re: more trouble in Russia

Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:59 am

Swoosher wrote:French media reporting three positive doping tests from Russians...Borchin, Kanaikin, Voevodin. All walkers I think.

French are happy becuase it is less competitors for Diniz


Stupid french media,kanaikin and voevodin were not in the olympic team....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Kanaikin had already been replaced by Krypyakin.

The russians knew that Kanaikin was doped.

Russian athletics survives for another day, 8-)
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:04 am

Russia team for Beijing announce on 22 july

20 км/х
Валерий Борчин

Илья Марков

Сергей Морозов

50 км/х
Игорь Ерохин

Сергей Кирдяпкин

Денис Нижегородов

Athletes who test positive,annouce today:

Владимира Канайкина, Алексея Воеводина и Виктора Бураева


I hope people here have the all picute now.


The russia federation knew this athletes might fail the doping test so they were not include in the team.

Good work by Balakhnichev. :D :D
Last edited by Tiago on Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:05 am

The comments by the IOC guy are surprisingly frank and it is unlikely that there is just a little mix up; this is a major battle. See the Front Page, a must-read on this topic. I wonder if Russia is risking it all; getting booted entirely is a major step and the tone of the IOC (a medical guy, as well) and ex-IAAF is strong.


Another example of target testing was announced today. In Cycling, the winner of the climber's jersey in the Giro (contested in May) recently test positive for CERA in an Out-of-Comp test:

...Italian Emanuele Sella, has been found positive in an out-of-competition doping control issued by the UCI on July 23... [he] was found to have used the same third generation EPO – CERA – that Riccardo Riccò admitted to using in the Tour de France.

"It was targeted control," said UCI President Pat McQuaid to Cyclingnews. "The control was done on the July 23 and we sent the samples to Paris for testing." McQuaid noted that Sella had been targeted based on his actions in and out of racing. "It was a highly targeted out-of-competition test. We are using a range of information to target riders."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/aug08/aug06news
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Postby kamikaze7 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:07 am

Systematic doping in Russia transcends T&F. I am glad the IOC is picking up on it. Stronger measures must be taken against Russia. Circumstantial evidence must now be used by international bodies. Drug tests are no longer going to work. It must be considered on a case by case basis and Russia warrants more scrutiny.
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:11 am

kamikaze7 wrote:Systematic doping in Russia transcends T&F. I am glad the IOC is picking up on it. Stronger measures must be taken against Russia. Circumstantial evidence must now be used by international bodies. Drug tests are no longer going to work. It must be considered on a case by case basis and Russia warrants more scrutiny.


That athletes are not in the olympic team,never were and never intended to be.

The russia athletic federation actly correct in this one.
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:15 am

EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


:?

Maybe i am sounding the lawyer of the russians here but Gusev never tested positive. :wink:
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Re: more trouble in Russia

Postby Jaack » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:25 am

Tiago wrote:
Russian athletics survives for another day, 8-)
You must be so proud.
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:27 am

Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


:?

Maybe i am sounding the lawyer of the russians here but Gusev never tested positive. :wink:


He never 'tested positive' for a particular substance (e.g., EPO). However, his blood and urine values give indications of manipulations that are implicated in doping. He lost his job and is out of the Olympics as well, so it is a pretty strong indication of a problem. Remember that Rasmussen also did not 'test positive' and neither did MS Jones.
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Postby EPelle » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:32 am

Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


:?

Maybe i am sounding the lawyer of the russians here but Gusev never tested positive. :wink:

No, but his levels were dissatisfactorily enough outside the parametres of the agreement signed by the other 29 riders in the competition where the irregularities were discovered that he has been replaced.
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Re: more trouble in Russia

Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:33 am

Jaack wrote:
Tiago wrote:
Russian athletics survives for another day, 8-)
You must be so proud.


It is the truth,this was no surprise...i don't think this is a big case,voevodin is old and out of form,Buraev have always doping suspicious against him,only Kanaykin is a lost but Nizhegorodov is the gold bet for Russia anywway.

They said that Kanaykin had health and was left out of the team because of that,well now we now why. :lol:

The blow for the russia team was soboleva case. :cry:
Last edited by Tiago on Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:34 am

EPelle wrote:
Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


:?

Maybe i am sounding the lawyer of the russians here but Gusev never tested positive. :wink:

No, but his levels were dissatisfactorily enough outside the parametres of the agreement signed by the other 29 riders in the competition where the irregularities were discovered that he has been replaced.


Well Menchov will do better then him anyway. :wink:
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Postby az2004 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:57 am

ah, with this level of cheating, is there any thought the 2013 world coukd be taken from moscow??

as penalty..
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:59 am

az2004 wrote:ah, with this level of cheating, is there any thought the 2013 world coukd be taken from moscow??

as penalty..


Seems unlikely, although a big competition penalty might make Russia less interested in the event.
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Postby lapsus » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:09 am

Tiago wrote:Athletes who test positive,annouce today:

Владимира Канайкина, Алексея Воеводина и Виктора Бураева



Thank you for the clarification. The native form of names also makes it easier to google for news and information in Russian.
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Postby Flumpy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:15 pm

Jaack wrote:
How can anyone trust Russian results in Beijing. When they go 1,2,3 in the women's steeple


They won't be going 1,2,3 in the WSteeple :wink: :D
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Postby noahnathan » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:06 pm

Hi Flumpy! Do u know something we will all be chuffed with re: w3000 m steeple ?
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:08 pm

I think Eunice Jepkorir might have something to say about a Russian 1-2-3 ...
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Postby Jon » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:12 pm

As would Dominguez perhaps...
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Postby nevetsllim » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:12 pm

Marta Dominguez too. I can see her sneaking a bronze. Jepkorir worries me because she always looks as though she's gonna fall over one of the barriers, like she nearly did in Barcelona last month.
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:30 am

Brace yourselves for the reports or even further denials of the reports:

The president of the All-Russian Athletics Federation dismissed media reports Wednesday that a further 11 Russian athletes have tested positive for banned substances in the run up to the Beijing Olympics.

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20080806/115830248.html
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:32 am

Сергей Алифиренко не выступит на Олимпиаде в Пекине также из-за проблем с допинг-контролем
Знаменитый российский стрелок, олимпийский чемпион-2000 и бронзовый призер Олимпиады-2004 Сергей Алифиренко (на фото) не выступит на Играх не только из-за проблем со зрением, но и из-за нарушений антидопингового законодательства, допущенных во время лечения. Эту версию Агентству спортивной информации "Весь спорт" подтвердили сразу несколько источников в Стрелковом союзе России (ССР) и Штабе российской делегации России в Пекине.

Официальную версию вчерашнего, 6 августа, исключения 39-летнего Сергея Алифиренко из состава олимпийской сборной России на Играх в Пекине Агентству спортивной информации «Весь спорт» озвучил главный тренер команды по пулевой стрельбе Олег Лапкин. "У Сергея Алифиренко в последнее время появились проблемы со зрением - сказал Олег Лапкин. - У него глаукома, повышенное внутриглазное давление. Олимпийский отбор Сергей не прошел, но мы все равно включили его в команду как олимпийского чемпиона, и до последнего надеялись, что станет лучше. К сожалению, лечение результатов не дало. В последнее время у Алифиренко дела не шли: чемпионат России он проиграл, Кубок России на призы президента Стрелкового союза России – тоже, на контрольных стрельбах не показывал все, на что способен. И нам пришлось сделать замену еще до нашего отправления в Пекин. Вместо Сергея Алифиренко на Олимпиаде выступит Леонид Екимов, чемпион Европы нынешнего года".

Источники в руководстве ССР и Штабе российской делегации России в Пекине подтверждают, что у Сергея Алифиренко возникли проблемы со зрением. Но поправляют: реальной причиной исключения из олимпийской команды стали не они, а нарушения антидопингового законодательства, допущенных во время лечения. По нашим данным, для лечения глаукомы Сергей Алифиренко использовал тот же препарат, что и биатлонистка Татьяна Моисеева, обвиненная в минувшем зимнем сезоне в применении допинга, - дексаметазон. По непонятным причинам, на его использование знаменитому стрелку не оформили терапевтическое исключение. Национальный допинг-контроль показала наличие в организме запрещенного препарата, документы были отправлены в Международную федерацию спортивной стрельбы (ISSF) и Всемирное антидопинговое агентство (WADA).

В настоящее время ISSF настаивает на санкциях – двухлетней дисквалификации Сергея Алифиренко. Дискуссии по этому поводу продолжаются, но руководители ССР и олимпийской сборной России, во избежание допинговых скандалов в Пекине и возможного лишения олимпийских медалей, как и в случаях с российскими легкоатлетами и велосипедистом Владимиром Гусевым, решили исключить Сергея Алифиренко из олимпийской команды. Окончательное решение по делу Алифиренко, очевидно, будет принято уже после завершения Олимпийских игр в Пекине.


Now a shooter also? :?

In the last week Russia had 12 doping positive cases knowed. :shock:

What's next?
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:34 am

EPelle wrote:Brace yourselves for the reports or even further denials of the reports:


Uh-Oh. Surely if they do have 20 odd positives in such a short space of time, they can't let the team compete ? I mean, it's outrageous and with old Arne weighing saying he thinks it's systematic, it's hardly looking good...
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:36 am

Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:40 am

EPelle wrote:Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.


They knew he was doped.......
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Postby 26mi235 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:41 am

Tiago:

I know that you are very new here and that your English is not as good as your command of other languages, so I am making a comment about posting policy.

Even though it is in Russian copyright law and board policy limit reproduction to 'fair use'. This usually means just enough to get key information without any more than a minor subset. You should trim out most of the post (just use the 'edit' button that appear in the upper right of any post that you make).

Keep on supplying us with news that would take longer to penetrate our English-centered world; thanks.
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:49 am

26mi235 wrote:Tiago:

I know that you are very new here and that your English is not as good as your command of other languages, so I am making a comment about posting policy.

Even though it is in Russian copyright law and board policy limit reproduction to 'fair use'. This usually means just enough to get key information without any more than a minor subset. You should trim out most of the post (just use the 'edit' button that appear in the upper right of any post that you make).

Keep on supplying us with news that would take longer to penetrate our English-centered world; thanks.


Tk,i will try to update with russian doping news latest.

There is another doping rumour circulating in this morning btw.....

It is related with athletics but we should wait......
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:56 am

EPelle wrote:Brace yourselves for the reports or even further denials of the reports:

The president of the All-Russian Athletics Federation dismissed media reports Wednesday that a further 11 Russian athletes have tested positive for banned substances in the run up to the Beijing Olympics.

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20080806/115830248.html


Yeah,i check some info in this morning about this but are not very reliable sources.......
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:16 am

Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.


They knew he was doped.......

They:d denied foreknowledge according to live sending on Perviy Kanal 1 last evening.
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:40 am

Ok, Alifirenko case is not what can you call a doping case.

Sadly my english is not good to explain it..... :(

And again russian olympic comitee was aware of this situation.
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:50 am

So Tamsyn Lewis has weighed in with comments about doping and the Australian team and other Australians seem to be denouncing her for doing so...

I don't understand why. I mean, I'm not saying Tamsyn Lewis would be an Olympic champion now if all the drugs were rooted out, but to be fair, if I were a clean athlete (which, of course, we can only assume she is), I'd be MIGHTILY pissed off by now...
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:51 am

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Postby Daisy » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:01 am

peach wrote:So Tamsyn Lewis has weighed in with comments about doping and the Australian team and other Australians seem to be denouncing her for doing so...


Why are they denouncing her? It seems far less provocative than Paula Radcliffe holding up the "EPO cheats out" sign and most fans sympathized with her at the time.
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:03 am

Yegorova was a live case... a real person. Lewis is simply muckraking.
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Postby Daisy » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:15 am

EPelle wrote:Yegorova was a live case... a real person. Lewis is simply muckraking.


Makes sense, I thought she was more specifically attacking Soboleva. I guess she is true to her media statements of the past re: Rawlinson and 4x400 fiasco.
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:32 am

I think this is the thing...cause she is outspoken, they are going along the same old "Here goes Tamsyn again" line of thinking...though to be honest, I think she's absolutely got a point. Ok, it wasn't keeping her from an Olympic final but if I'd be pissed off if athletes ahead of me in major champs were testing positive...

The interesting point, is who did she think in the Olympic 800m final tested positive back in Sydney? Because I can't think of anyone from this list...

1. ML Mutola (Moz) 1:56.15
2. S Graf (Aut) 1:56.64
3. K Holmes (Gbr) 1:56.80
4. B Langerholc (Slo) 1:58.51
5. H Fuchsova (Cze) 1:58.56
6. Z Calatayud (Cub) 1:58.66
7. H Clark (USA) 1:58.75
8. HB Hassi (Mar) 1:59.27
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:41 am

well of course, those are unsubstiantied rumours I couldn't possibly confirm or deny and I'm sure they'll be gone within a matter of moments but I repeat, Tamsyn Lewis stated in her interview she missed out on the final by 0.03 and found one of the girls "ahead of her" was on drugs.

As it was a fastest loser situation, that could mean any finalist, I guess, but still...
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Postby Matt » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:45 am

Didn't Hazel Clark have a warning for something or other? Pseudoephedrine? I can't say for sure.
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