SOBOLEVA OUT OF BEIJING


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Postby nevetsllim » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:04 am

Stephen wrote:
nevetsllim wrote:I'm pretty surprised at Pishchalnikova and Cherkasova.

At least Alminova will get picked for the Russian team for Beijing! :D


No way, I never trusted Pishchalnikova! In fact, I'f I'm being perfectly honest, I still think the Russian team have an organised doping regime, and this kind of backs that up.


Well I never really had anything to go on so I gave her the benefit of the doubt.

Still, I think there are more obvious Russians than these ones.
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Postby gh » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:09 am

Send in the clones!
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Postby peach » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:10 am

gh wrote:Send in the clones!

#
HA!

Or send in the random testing team more often please...

I do agree, something is up in Russia. Six athletes in one fell swoop doesn't look too good either...
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Postby pauluk63 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:13 am

i am so disapointed, yet again another scandal... sobelova a huge star and favourite and tomoshova who is always there for the champs OUT!

i just knew though when i saw six big name russians out one would be sobelova

i guess that explains 2004-2005
2008 3:56.59 Moskva 10/07/2008
2007 3:57.30 Moskva 29/06/2007
2006 3:56.43 Paris Saint-Denis 08/07/2006
2005 4:01.14 Tula 13/07/2005
2004 4:11.98 Tula 24/06/2004

also 2007-2008 800!
2008 1:54.85 Kazan 18/07/2008
2007 1:59.49 Zhukovskiy 09/06/2007
2006 1:57.28 Zhukovskiy 24/06/2006
2005 2:00.59 Tallinn 16/08/2005
2003 2:01.65 Cheboksary 28/06/2003
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Postby pauluk63 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:14 am

God it really is BIG names though sobelova, fomenko, tomoshova.... maybe there is more??
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Postby BruceFlorman » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:15 am

peach wrote:
guru wrote:interesting.

Someone clarify exactly what "DNA convergence" is and how you test for it.


I wondered if that was a bad translation of saying the urine samples were from the same person ?

The AFP report appears to be a translation of this: http://www.allsport.ru/index.php?id=16639
I would probably translate the phrase "несовпадение ДНК в допинг-пробах" as "DNA mismatch in doping-probes".

BTW, the AllSport.ru site says they'll have a detailed interview with Balakhnichev soon.
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Postby Jaack » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:16 am

Oh JEBUS!!!!!! That's some amount. :shock:


Isn't the hammer thrower JUST back in the sport?

This will make me even MORE paranoid when it comes to other athletes like the 400m girls, the walkers, the 10k and 5k runner (she has to be the most doped of ALL)!!
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Postby Jon » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:16 am

Stephen wrote:No way, I never trusted Pishchalnikova!
Me neither - the deep grunt she let out when she threw, her facial acne, and rapid progression were all small hints :)

Stephen wrote:In fact, I'f I'm being perfectly honest, I still think the Russian team have an organised doping regime, and this kind of backs that up.
Again, I agree. These athletes are from different events with different coaches, yet they all have something funky going on with their DNA testing. They must be getting the same 'instructions' from somewhere.

Whatever little hope I had in the Russian team has now been lost completely.
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Postby gh » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:19 am

This would all suggest to me that more DQs may be in the offing. Too much a coincidence perhaps that this year's 1500 trio just happened to get caught up last year? Meaning that at at this point the IAAF has merely acted to go after those named for Beijing? (but has more in the hopper)
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Postby EPelle » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:20 am

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Postby Jaack » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:26 am

Jon wrote:
Stephen wrote:
Stephen wrote:In fact, I'f I'm being perfectly honest, I still think the Russian team have an organised doping regime, and this kind of backs that up.
Again, I agree. These athletes are from different events with different coaches, yet they all have something funky going on with their DNA testing. They must be getting the same 'instructions' from somewhere.

Whatever little hope I had in the Russian team has now been lost completely.


I was just searching to see if they had the same coach...this absolutely STINKS of an organised doping system. :cry: Can we trust any of Russia's leading athletes? As much as I have believed quite a high amount of Russian gals were doped, I could still manage to support some members of their team like Soboleva, Guschina, Tomashova. But the fact that these 6 names, pretty much represent the entire team, well....how can anyone have faith in the rest? Samitova? Kapachinskaya? Volkova?

It's going to be tough watching a Russian Gal beat out a personal favourite in Beijing.


That said, I live by the mantra that Isi can't be on anything, nor would it help! :oops:
Last edited by Jaack on Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby nevetsllim » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:28 am

Isinbayeva. Thankfully none of their jumpers have been caught up...yet so I retain some hope..for now :? :roll:
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Postby croflash » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:30 am

Odd timing to let the cat out of the bag. Like many of you, can't say I'm surprised, but this seems like a new dimension. Could there be several new tests to discover PEDs before the Olympics ?
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Postby peach » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:30 am

Jon wrote:No way, I never trusted Pishchalnikova!
Me neither - the deep grunt she let out when she threw, her facial acne, and rapid progression were all small hints :)[/quote]

I agree with you on the first two, but the latter isn't too much of an issue- rapid progression at a young age isn't really that much of a giveaway and she's still only 23...

And this absolutely does stink- do they have different coaches ? You'd have thought so...
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Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:31 am

im :shock: im :x im :roll: im :cry: and finally im :lol:
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Postby peach » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:32 am

Jaack wrote: Kapachinskaya?


Yes, well the less said about THAT, the better...I certainly didn't need a Russian drugs bust to tell me all I need to know about HER
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Postby The Captain » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:34 am

Now on IAAF homepage ... and ... wait for it ....

Yegorova as well :D
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Postby peach » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:35 am

The Captain wrote:Now on IAAF homepage ... and ... wait for it ....

Yegorova as well :D


HOORAY! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby mump boy » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:36 am

none of this suprises in the slightest you hope for the best and it's easy to see why russia would have great athletes. i'm an grateful that this has come out 3 weeks b4 track starts at OG and also interested that it only seems to be russian women involved in a nearly all RUS +
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Postby pauluk63 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:37 am

i was just about to say about Anastasiya Kapachinskaya... strangley.... see how brilliant she is bejing my gut feeling is she will meadle!
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Postby Matt » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:39 am

IAAF report interesting - their previous samples had deliberately been stored for re-analysis.I knew that certain athletes were being targeted by the IAAF so this is actually a great step.

Now that prodigious, amazing, barrier breaking and immensely talented junior, Pamela Jelimo, can win the 800m now that drugs cheat Sobo is out. :roll:
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Postby gh » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:43 am

IAAF confirms, and it's SEVEN. Olga Yegorova as well.
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Postby croflash » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:46 am

Well, if they have certain athletes on the radar it would also mean that more might be coming before or during the Olympics. I'm sure they are/were not only targeting Russian athletes.
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Postby gh » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:48 am

This topic is about 7 people implicated in the IAAF bust, and those 7 alone. Any further "implication" of other names will result in an expulsion.
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Postby Matt » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:56 am

Sorry, gh.

Radcliffe and Tullett's protest in Edmonton was just, after all (not that anyone believed it wasn't).
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Postby Cindolo » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:56 am

And now Yegorova has been added to the list. Finally!
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Postby joeltetreault » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:56 am

Jaack wrote:I was just searching to see if they had the same coach...this absolutely STINKS of an organised doping system. :cry: Can we trust any of Russia's leading athletes?


As far as I know, the w800 and w1500 runners do not share the same coach, which makes this (to me) more surprising. I think EPelle best summarized my alarm above:

EPelle wrote:F-ing A, man.
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Postby nevetsllim » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:58 am

Matt wrote:Sorry, gh.

Radcliffe and Tullett's protest in Edmonton was just, after all (not that anyone believed it wasn't).


Feel sorry for Tullett. Ayhan has been caught twice and now Tomashova is busted :(

Clitheroe and Pavey have been forced out of medals by suspected cheats as well :(
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:14 am

Sorry gh - gut reaction. Won't happen again.

I was wondering why now. Reading the IAAF statement, it does seem that it was a year long investigation into sample manipulation. The mechanics of the manipulation still confuse me though - one person's urine for everybody over a period of time? Still, it's better to come out now rather than in 2 weeks' time.
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Postby peach » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:24 am

I wondered earlier if it meant that it was clear that, say, the samples from Soboleva were all from different people...

So the DNA didn't match between the three urine samples taken at different times...
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Postby The Captain » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:28 am

and some Romanian 1500 runners (to add to Popescu)
http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Olym ... 6720080731
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Postby nevetsllim » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:39 am

Elena Iagar - what a surprise :roll:

Helen Clitheroe must be so pissed. Gold medallist Iagar (drugs), silver medallist Dumbravean (drugs) and bronze medallist Dehiba (drugs).
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Postby dupontred » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:42 am

Could be a dumb question, but is it too late for the Russian federatiaon to name new people, or bring in the alternates? Or you think the Russians will just not field anyone in those events?

Is there a cut off date of declared athletes for visas, etc?
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Postby Mennisco » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:49 am

nevetsllim wrote:

Still, I think there are more obvious Russians than these ones.


Well, to lighten up the day, we could go over to that other thread dealing with grammatical boners....

:wink:
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Postby mark » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:56 am

Hayley Tullett, world champion!!! No wonder she quit early, would be easy to be disillusioned, how would she have progressed in her career if she had been given the title we now know is her's.

Oh Tomashova, how I wanted you to be clean down the years as I came to respect your racing and consistency. How I tried to overlook that you were part of the Yego breakthrough and almost had a replica career. How happy I was to see you beat the odious Ayhan. I understand now their step down from 5k to 1500, once the EPO got caught they needed to find a new trick. So obvious, why didn't I see it.

Soboleva, where do we start. The innocent look and sob story. And that blonde hair, the beauty, it was so mcuh easier to condemn Yegorova who looked like a rat. Lesson to be learnt, doping transcends beauty.

There are clearly scores of others on their way down. Loads of them will tank in Beijing. It is no coincidence that those who have gone down are the frequent racers which has given IAAF the opportunity to track their samples. Look at A B C and D (names withdrawn) on the other hand who were out of the frame last year and so progressive analysis will have been pretty tough to implement.

There is only one way to deal with this! I know it will be harsh, but the entire Russian team needs to be thrown out of the Games. I don't think doping in blanket, Isinbeyeva is pretty much disassociated from the Russian regime, I pray for Lebedyeva. However doping is systemic in Russia, it transcends coaches, events and training groups and the only way to make the Federation do anything about it is to take strong affirmative action.

I think the best we can hope for is that we know every single Russian in Beijing is going to be tested and have their samples stored for good. I expect to see a book full of DNQs from all but their biggest stars.

GO IAAF - finally showing some teeth. Now get the E (name withdrawn) woman for us before she goes and spoils the whole games for me, again!

This is unabated good news, fortunately even Soboleva is not on the tongues of the general public unlike Marion Jones and some Eastern European drug bust is hardly gonna shock Joe Public.

Interestingly, the women's 1500m ends up historically looking pretty much as dirty if not dirtier than any other event. Thank goodness for Kelly!

Oh my goodness, terrible thought, do I even trust Masterkova any more? One of my all time favourites, was just watching her 1996 runs on youtube last week, but the patterns is worryingly similar.

BTW I would like to see maternity testing brought in for Russian athletes so that when we here they are pregnant we can actually ascertain whether they really have given birth as I don't like the habit of their athletes disappearing for tears and coming back in wonder shape.
Last edited by mark on Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Stephen » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:58 am

Wonder if they'll get DQ'ed from Osaka results?

That would mean Barrios would get silver and Grasu move up to bronze in the DT and Lishchynska up to silver and Yordanova bronze in the 1500m.

Not sure I'm particularly comfortable with all of those changes!
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Postby Mennisco » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:01 am

mark wrote:Lesson to be learnt, doping transcends beauty.


??? Trumps ???

Image
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Postby andyjgt » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:01 am

Stephen wrote:Wonder if they'll get DQ'ed from Osaka results?

That would mean Barrios would get silver and Grasu move up to bronze in the DT and Lishchynska up to silver and Yordanova bronze in the 1500m.

Not sure I'm particularly comfortable with all of those changes!


As long as you're comfortable with one of those changes everything's OK with me!
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Postby Stephen » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:10 am

Mark, I think we can safely say our sport is probably as dirty as it ever was.

The top US sprinters all going down (Gatlin, Montgomery, Jones, Gaines, White etc) these Russian positives, the revelation that Nesterenko failed a test years ago, all the come backs from throwers that have failed tests (Sadova, Fazekas etc)...not to mention random 'juniors' lighting up the tracks from outta nowhere, lack of testing in the caribbean....

:cry:
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Postby Mennisco » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:10 am

I was really looking forward to seeing Sobo-Jelimo and hearing the Agogô heralding the bell lap:

Image

Now the only thing being heralded is yet another [shocking, duh] doping revelation. I guess that leaves Pamela on-'er-own-a.
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