Antonio Pettigrew latest victim in doping hunt


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Antonio Pettigrew latest victim in doping hunt

Postby TrackCEO » Fri May 02, 2008 6:34 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/03/sport ... ref=sports
Pettigrew, 40, is an assistant track coach at the University of North Carolina. He had not been previously been publicly linked to performance-enhancing drugs. His lawyer, Xavier R. Donaldson, declined comment Friday on the specific allegations in the government filing, but said, “If the trial goes forward, it’ll go forward, and whatever happens will happen.”

Donaldson added: “Antonio is one of the best persons you’d hope to meet. That’s why this whole situation is a sad one.”


Poor Pettigrew.

When will this insanity end?

(And when will NYT Web site get a better editor?)

K E N
Last edited by TrackCEO on Fri May 02, 2008 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby nctrackfan » Fri May 02, 2008 6:56 pm

If this is true, I wonder if the IOC will reconsider their ruling on the US men's 4X400 relay gold medal. I don't know if their is a statute of limitations in these matters. (or was it the IAAF ruling?, I'm not sure)
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Postby 26mi235 » Fri May 02, 2008 7:30 pm

It will also depend on the vintage of the infraction. It seems that at least some of the cases are after 2000 and before 2004.
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Postby peach » Fri May 02, 2008 11:54 pm

I'm not sure "Poor Pettigrew" is quite how I'd put it...
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Postby dakota » Sat May 03, 2008 12:37 am

It was Kriss Akabusi what drove him to it gov, with the relay baton, in Tokyo.
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Postby EPelle » Sat May 03, 2008 1:54 am

peach wrote:I'm not sure "Poor Pettigrew" is quite how I'd put it...

Correct. He was implicated during CJ Hunter testimony concerning Jones drug use. He:s been on the radar for four years, but not as a major concern, rather part of the bigger picture which is now forming.
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Postby Flumpy » Sat May 03, 2008 2:01 am

peach wrote:I'm not sure "Poor Pettigrew" is quite how I'd put it...


Just what I was thinking. Why 'Poor Pettigrew"???
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Postby Jaack » Sat May 03, 2008 3:09 am

Jerome Young- Calvin and Alvin Harison (their mother must be so proud) and now Antonio were ALL on that relay, it seems the only one who wasn't doped was the one that was faster, stronger, more consistent- MJ! How in Gods name have they kept those gold medals when 4 of them are dopers!

It's looking like an American relay will never win anything again, because someone will always wind up busted for drugs! In Sydney alone they've lost the womens 4x1 and 4x4, they SHOULD have lost the mens 4x4 and if the Green thing comes to pass they'll lose the 4x1 too!

There has to be some sort of mentor program set up in the States....it just seems unbelievable that all of these athletes would ignore morals and ethics and cheat cheat cheat! What makes it worse is that most of those banned athletes would cross the line and pray to God and give him thanks.....Eh dude, God aint going to be happy that you lied, cheated and deceited your way to a title and ran a sport into the ground!
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Postby Kurt Francis » Sat May 03, 2008 3:11 am

Jaack wrote:Jerome Young- Calvin and Alvin Harison (their mother must be so proud) and now Antonio were ALL on that relay, it seems the only one who wasn't doped was the one that was faster, stronger, more consistent- MJ! How in Gods name have they kept those gold medals when 4 of them are dopers!


Be careful on what you assume to be true!
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Postby Jaack » Sat May 03, 2008 3:17 am

Kurt Francis wrote:
Jaack wrote:Jerome Young- Calvin and Alvin Harison (their mother must be so proud) and now Antonio were ALL on that relay, it seems the only one who wasn't doped was the one that was faster, stronger, more consistent- MJ! How in Gods name have they kept those gold medals when 4 of them are dopers!


Be careful on what you assume to be true!
Even if Antonio is somehow cleared, there were still 3 drug cheats on that team!
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Postby dakota » Sat May 03, 2008 3:21 am

Jaack wrote:
Kurt Francis wrote:
Jaack wrote:Jerome Young- Calvin and Alvin Harison (their mother must be so proud) and now Antonio were ALL on that relay, it seems the only one who wasn't doped was the one that was faster, stronger, more consistent- MJ! How in Gods name have they kept those gold medals when 4 of them are dopers!


Be careful on what you assume to be true!
Even if Antonio is somehow cleared, there were still 3 drug cheats on that team!


I may be wrong, but I think Kurt was inferring something else.
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Postby Kurt Francis » Sat May 03, 2008 5:24 am

dakota wrote:
Jaack wrote:
Kurt Francis wrote:
Jaack wrote:Jerome Young- Calvin and Alvin Harison (their mother must be so proud) and now Antonio were ALL on that relay, it seems the only one who wasn't doped was the one that was faster, stronger, more consistent- MJ! How in Gods name have they kept those gold medals when 4 of them are dopers!


Be careful on what you assume to be true!
Even if Antonio is somehow cleared, there were still 3 drug cheats on that team!


I may be wrong, but I think Kurt was inferring something else.


I think we've all seen all too many examples of what appears to be the case is not necessarily so; i.e., when one clears a drug test, that doesn't mean they weren't.

Kurt
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Postby 26mi235 » Sat May 03, 2008 5:34 am

Jaack wrote:...and if the Green thing comes to pass they'll lose the 4x1 too!


His connection is only about 2002, not before (and at this point, not 2004 for any direct link, I think). Not saying that it might not expand, but nothing yet on the specific radar.
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Postby Mennisco » Sat May 03, 2008 5:55 am

Jaack wrote:What makes it worse is that most of those banned athletes would cross the line and pray to God and give him thanks.....Eh dude, God aint going to be happy that you lied, cheated and deceited your way to a title and ran a sport into the ground!


In the immortal words of tafnut, "What were they thanking him for?".....

"God made steroids cuz he wants us to use them..." :lol:
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Postby dakota » Sat May 03, 2008 6:21 am

Jack The Ripper Latest Victim In Man Hunt.
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Postby tlb747 » Sat May 03, 2008 1:28 pm

nctrackfan wrote:If this is true, I wonder if the IOC will reconsider their ruling on the US men's 4X400 relay gold medal. I don't know if their is a statute of limitations in these matters. (or was it the IAAF ruling?, I'm not sure)


But can they (IOC) change their minds and get the medals from the men?
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Postby peach » Sun May 04, 2008 7:12 am

Looks like Pettigrew is about to 'fess up

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/7382810.stm

So much for "Poor Pettigrew", "the victim"...
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Postby Jacksf » Sun May 04, 2008 7:14 am

It almost seems like the entire elite US sprint community of the 90s were all cheaters.
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Postby peach » Sun May 04, 2008 7:18 am

What I'm finding interesting is that most of these recent revelations seem to be centering on the men- maybe that's just that the media are more interested in them as "big names"...

I wonder if the alleged list of names is going to include a whole lotta females?
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Postby Kurt Francis » Sun May 04, 2008 7:49 am

Jacksf wrote:It almost seems like the entire elite US sprint community of the 90s were all cheaters.


I would be willing to bet my small personal fortune that what is being revealed is only a small fraction of the INTERNATIONAL list of "cheaters" over the last 20 years. I put "cheaters" in quotes because it is only cheating by statute. Remove the prohibition and there is no cheating. Health matters and the issue of use at the youth levels is another matter altogether.

Kurt
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Postby Jaack » Sun May 04, 2008 8:20 am

Kurt Francis wrote:
Jacksf wrote:It almost seems like the entire elite US sprint community of the 90s were all cheaters.


I would be willing to bet my small personal fortune that what is being revealed is only a small fraction of the INTERNATIONAL list of "cheaters" over the last 20 years. I put "cheaters" in quotes because it is only cheating by statute. Remove the prohibition and there is no cheating. Health matters and the issue of use at the youth levels is another matter altogether.

Kurt
Personally I think that is such a :( opinion. It's CHEATING without the quotes because there ARE athletes who work their butts off without the aid of performance enhancers only to be beaten by less naturally talented, immoral, money hungry, doped up thieves!

I suspect that is why there is such a large number of Americans who cheat(ed)- because they had they heard through the grapevine that their fellow team mates were on drugs and unfortunately the consequnces were not that steep.

Athletics is a respected sport in Europe, and drug cheats don't just slink away like they can in the US (because people really only care about track there during olympic year) therefore the risk of cheating (again without the quotes) is far greater and a for more knowingly immoral decision on behalf of (particularly) Western European athletes.

You can't just claim everyone was on drugs, and ergo the American athletes were just following suit and ergo didn't really "cheat"! I feel so sorry for people like Jason Gardner who were obviously competing fairly year on year only to be robbed by CHEATERS! There have to be some consequences here, or some programs put in place to let these young kids know that it's NOT okay to cheat and lie, it's not okay to become a doped up con and that you SHOULD aim to be a fair sport!

It really is shocking, in hindsight how some of those cheats lived in such a fantasy land when they'd celebrate joyously thanking God- believing themselves to be the best athlete in the world- when they had actually cheated their way there. It's almost as if they really didn't feel like they were doing anything wrong, and THAT in itself is just sad!

The saddest thing of all is....what do Drug cheats do when they retire? COACH! So you have people, with a personality imbalance, people who feel it is not just okay to cheat, but required- people who never batted an eyelid during their own meaningless careers - these people, Duaine Ross, Larry Wade, Pettigrew..and far more salient culprits are now advising younger kids on how to win! IMHO- a drugs ban should equal 4 years and a no coaching career!
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Postby Kevin Richardson » Sun May 04, 2008 10:06 am

Not to sound like I am waving the flag here, but let us keep in mind that most of the latest revelations stem from investigations into American athletes, only. The Mitchell Report could not care any less about foreign athletes. So, before we start casting stones at the American system, let us reflect on the fact that it is an American system which is bringing most of this to the fore. That neither vindicates nor indicts athletes from other nations. It just is what it is.
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Postby 26mi235 » Sun May 04, 2008 10:42 am

From the BBC article we have:

'"Mr Heredia will testify that the defendant contacted him prior to the 2000 Olympics and specifically inquired about obtaining such illegal banned substances for Marion Jones," said the prosecutors filling.

Graham's attorneys have requested a judge prohibit that testimony because the coach is only charged with lying about his relationship with Heredia. '

Then they quote Graham

'When he spoke on the case 11 days ago, he said: "It's embarrassing. My name is smeared in stuff. My stance has always been that there is no place in our sport for drug users."

Duane Ross, Garfield Ellenwood, Michelle Collins and Dennis Mitchell are the other athletes who also said to testify against their former coach. '

Being concerned about the 2000 issue does not seem very consistent with 'no place in our sport...'.
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Sun May 04, 2008 1:09 pm

The name of Dennis Mitchell caught my eye. Isn't that the guy who got off on the infamous "too much beer and sex" excuse? :roll:

Of course, these athletes could just be testifying of being offered PEDs, as opposed to using them, naturally.

Oh, and I'm sorry - the rules of the sport define using any of a proscribed list of PEDs as cheating and give bans for doing so. There are no quotation marks needed! Philosophical questions over whether athletes "cheated" are pure sophistry and redundant. What they did was against the rules of the sport. End of argument.

Are people really arguing on these boards that it only matters if you get caught? That's the attitude that gets us into this mess.

Don't worry - when Interpol get going in Europe on HGH and EPO in about 10 years' time, the US can watch the rest of us burn. :cry:
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Postby peach » Mon May 05, 2008 12:15 am

AthleticsInBritain wrote:The name of Dennis Mitchell caught my eye. Isn't that the guy who got off on the infamous "too much beer and sex" excuse? :roll:


Yup. But then it's hardly something of a shock to see his name appear, really...
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Postby Flumpy » Mon May 05, 2008 4:22 am

Kevin Richardson wrote:Not to sound like I am waving the flag here, but let us keep in mind that most of the latest revelations stem from investigations into American athletes, only. The Mitchell Report could not care any less about foreign athletes. So, before we start casting stones at the American system, let us reflect on the fact that it is an American system which is bringing most of this to the fore. That neither vindicates nor indicts athletes from other nations. It just is what it is.


Which is only the case because the American system have been so lax over so many years. They have a lot of catchung up to do. It's obvious the authorities knew about this for years but did nothing about it.

You can't now make out that the US deserves credit for cleaning up it's own mess. Too little too late in my opinion.
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Postby Flumpy » Mon May 05, 2008 4:25 am

Kurt Francis wrote: I put "cheaters" in quotes because it is only cheating by statute. Remove the prohibition and there is no cheating.


You could say the same for 'murder'. :roll:
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Postby EPelle » Mon May 05, 2008 4:49 am

Pettigrew:s name has been surfacing for a couple of years, but, without him being backed into a corner, it wouldn:t have been prudent to name-drop him in the BALCO mess. I have a TV contact who is tight with Pettigrew who warned me 19 months ago of the storm brewing.

There were a lot of small fish to catch in order to secure a larger connection to Graham, and, as everyone knows, those names haven:t stopped hitting the news. Come 19-May, more folks will surface whom the government has not listed as witnesses against Graham, namely those whom Graham will claim were part of Heredia:s distribution channel.

There shouldn:t be any more "poor so-and-so" threads. If there is a credible connection between upcoming names and any purported misdeeds which can be verified and believed, it will simply be the what goes around comes around principle which will have stung them, not a witch-hunt; think about that as the trial begins, as there are also others who are not retired and who have since changed trainers whose names very well may surface.
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Postby Kurt Francis » Mon May 05, 2008 4:51 am

Flumpy wrote:
Kurt Francis wrote: I put "cheaters" in quotes because it is only cheating by statute. Remove the prohibition and there is no cheating.


You could say the same for 'murder'. :roll:


True, but the attempt to equivocate the two is hardly reasonable, don't you think?
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Postby Powell » Mon May 05, 2008 4:56 am

Kurt Francis wrote:True, but the attempt to equivocate the two is hardly reasonable, don't you think?


Perhaps not, but the same principle applies to anything from war crimes to littering. It's only illegal because the law forbids it. Hardly a strong line of defense.
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Postby 26mi235 » Mon May 05, 2008 7:42 am

Thanks, EPelle. I am looking forward to that trial and hope that we do not have an 'out-of-court' settlement that hides a lot of things.

Also, for the Europeans here, remember that the blood-doping case in Spain has been one where it was indicated that a number of athletes other than cyclists are involved, but the Spanish judge seems intent on taking as narrow an approach as possible in what looks a little too much like national covering of rear ends.
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Postby Kurt Francis » Mon May 05, 2008 3:44 pm

Powell wrote:
Kurt Francis wrote:True, but the attempt to equivocate the two is hardly reasonable, don't you think?


Perhaps not, but the same principle applies to anything from war crimes to littering. It's only illegal because the law forbids it. Hardly a strong line of defense.


True, but from a morality standpoint, the only violation that the athlete is guilty of is of violating an oath willingly taken. While a serious moral flaw, all of us are guilty of such, and certainly nothing compared to MURDER!

Kurt
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Postby Jaack » Mon May 05, 2008 4:39 pm

Kurt Francis wrote:
Powell wrote:
Kurt Francis wrote:True, but the attempt to equivocate the two is hardly reasonable, don't you think?


Perhaps not, but the same principle applies to anything from war crimes to littering. It's only illegal because the law forbids it. Hardly a strong line of defense.


True, but from a morality standpoint, the only violation that the athlete is guilty of is of violating an oath willingly taken. While a serious moral flaw, all of us are guilty of such, and certainly nothing compared to MURDER!

Kurt
It's not an oath, it's a rule- the difference between fair, and unfair. Dirty cheating, immoral thief, or normal athlete. The former are missing a little trait known as shame, unfortunately- society in gerneral has become shameless and thus I see your point, slightly. Murderers on the other hand are missing a soul and of course there is a difference.
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Postby Daisy » Mon May 05, 2008 7:40 pm

26mi235 wrote:Also, for the Europeans here, remember that the blood-doping case in Spain has been one where it was indicated that a number of athletes other than cyclists are involved


Along these lines did anyone else see the thread on whether Simon Bairu would break the current Canadian record for the marathon? (on tnfnorth)

Chris Moulton, put together some interesting data comparing sub 28 and sub 2:10 runners.

The summary was as follows:

USA 26% of sub 28 guys ran sub 2:10 (sample size 19)
ETH 33% of sub 28 guys ran sub 2:10 (12)
GBR 38% of sub 28 guys ran sub 2:10 (16)
Japan 39% of sub 28 guys ran sub 2:10 (29)
KEN 40% of sub 28 guys ran sub 2:10 (52)
Mex 43% of sub 28 guys ran sub 2:10 (14)
Spain 90% of sub 28 guys ran sub 2:10(11)

One poster added the following information:

"9 out of the 10 Spaniards did it between 98 and 03."
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Postby EPelle » Tue May 06, 2008 11:09 pm

Illston denies Calvin Harrison, Michelle Collins opportunity to testify:

http://select.nytimes.com/mem/tnt.html? ... raham.html

SAN FRANCISCO — Two world-class athletes and leading prosecution witnesses will not be allowed to testify in the trial against the track coach Trevor Graham, a United States District judge said Tuesday.

The judge, Susan Illston, said that Michelle Collins, a world champion indoor 200-meter runner, and Calvin Harrison, an Olympic gold medalist in the 4x400 relay, could contribute only tangential information in the case against Graham, who is charged with three counts of lying to a federal agent interviewing him about his knowledge and involvement in the distribution of banned drugs to athletes.

The judge said she could revisit that decision as the trial, which is scheduled to begin here May 19, unfolds.
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Postby tandfman » Thu May 22, 2008 11:11 am

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Postby bad hammy » Thu May 22, 2008 11:17 am

tandfman wrote:Pettigrew has now admitted doping.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/ ... tigrew.php

Sounds like they were pretty effective:
Once he began taking the banned substances, Pettigrew said he was able to run 400 meters in under 43 seconds for the first time.
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Postby Kevin Richardson » Thu May 22, 2008 1:34 pm

Flumpy wrote:
Kevin Richardson wrote:Not to sound like I am waving the flag here, but let us keep in mind that most of the latest revelations stem from investigations into American athletes, only. The Mitchell Report could not care any less about foreign athletes. So, before we start casting stones at the American system, let us reflect on the fact that it is an American system which is bringing most of this to the fore. That neither vindicates nor indicts athletes from other nations. It just is what it is.


Which is only the case because the American system have been so lax over so many years. They have a lot of catchung up to do. It's obvious the authorities knew about this for years but did nothing about it.

You can't now make out that the US deserves credit for cleaning up it's own mess. Too little too late in my opinion.


Not sure how it is so obvious that they knew anything at all. Suspicions are like armpits, in that most people have them, and they often smell bad.

So, would you recommend that the US do nothing at all? :? When sufficient information arose, and was ferreted out diligently by a few individuals, the system did what it was supposed to do. Sorry we did not get around to it before now, but you know how it is.............there really are a few things that rise to greater levels of importance for the US Senate. As for the USTAF/USOC lot? Can't say what they were busy with, but since we provide them so little in the way of funding, we are just pleased with anything we get from them. :wink:

Bottom line...........The yanks are doing the best they can with what they know to root out drug cheats. We are goring our own bulls, as we are taking down some of our most popular athletes in the sport. If that is not enough for some critics, well..........sorry!

Cheers
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Thu May 22, 2008 3:06 pm

I don't think anyone from any one country has any moral right to the moral high ground.

I'm not going to tell anyone their own business. But there's always been an impression over here of great leniency and looking the other way in the States. Of course, nobody really bothered about it anywhere until the Ben Johnson scandal. Even over here people joke about US colleges asking sports people if they're on steroids or not, and if not, making sure they are.

Mind you, I'm sure that the proportion of US PED users is no different to the rest of the world, although being a more moneyed country, you have more ability to finance purchase of said PEDs. A country with a larger population would be bound to have larger numbers involved.

The introduction of USADA seems to have made a positive difference over there, which is fantastic. I make no comment about USATF/USOC.

Still, someone must have known something if doping on this scale is going on - and this IS only one supply chain. It's the thought of people in charge who know who is doing what, while spouting anti-PED rhetoric and welcoming them to their meetings and celebrating their medals that makes me sick.
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Postby bambam » Thu May 22, 2008 4:17 pm

Here is the list of positive doping "irregularities" found at the Olympic Games since 1968 (all sports). USA is up there pretty high. Please note that GDR = 0.

RUS 14
AUT 11
USA 9
BUL 8
HUN 7
GRE 5
BLR 4
CAN 4
ESP 4
GER 4
LTU 4
SWE 4
MGL 3
POL 3
GBR 2
IND 2
IRL 2
JPN 2
PUR 2
ROU 2
TCH 2
AFG 1
ALG 1
ARM 1
AUS 1
CHN 1
COL 1
CRO 1
CUB 1
ETH 1
EUN 1
FIN 1
FRA 1
FRG 1
IRI 1
ISL 1
ITA 1
KEN 1
LAT 1
LIB 1
MAR 1
MDA 1
MON 1
MYA 1
NED 1
NOR 1
TUR 1
UKR 1
URS 1
UZB 1
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