Heredia List Tougher Than Mitchell Report?


This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; it's back to being locked.

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:39 am

jumplove wrote:ha ha ha I don t think any country is more patriotic than USA....
If I dare to say something as small as "smaller countries would have been banned from Olympics for same amount of US doping scandals" my comment is immediately erased.
Nice democracy Trackandfieldnews.com! Good job

Don't you you mean jingoistic or nationalistic? I think of patriotism as the flag waving that you see at the Olympics and all countries have a some of that, and I don't think that's a bad thing.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:43 am

balzonia wrote:you also must look at what is the incentive for a clean athlete to turn in a suspected cheater? why would a clean athlete want to further alienate his beloved sport from the masses? every positive test sullies our sport. why expose (and discredit further) the sport that provides the athlete an identity and in some rare cases a very nice living? clean ath;letes are doing enough for the sport by staying clean and having the integrity to play by the rules. there is no onus on them to name names.

So are you saying that clean athletes should keep their mouths shut even if an agent, trainer, coach or fellow athlete tries to provide them with PED's?
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Postby EPelle » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:48 am

balzonia wrote:you also must look at what is the incentive for a clean athlete to turn in a suspected cheater? why would a clean athlete want to further alienate his beloved sport from the masses? every positive test sullies our sport. why expose (and discredit further) the sport that provides the athlete an identity and in some rare cases a very nice living? clean ath;letes are doing enough for the sport by staying clean and having the integrity to play by the rules. there is no onus on them to name names.

The same incentive a dirty cheater has to turn in one of his/her own, namely better lane draws with the absense of their foe; more available prize money; VIP treatment to/from/during meets. Alienate his/her sport from the masses? The sport isn:t on the map but once every four years in the USA. Every positive test kicks out an unwanted member of an exclusive club. Expose and discredit a sport which provides a means to live/survive? Sponsors (Nike) aren:t shy of laying out the bucks for good talent, period. Neither is adidas.

No onus to name names? I:d call this a bit foolish.
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Postby balzonia » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:30 am

EPelle wrote:
balzonia wrote:you also must look at what is the incentive for a clean athlete to turn in a suspected cheater? why would a clean athlete want to further alienate his beloved sport from the masses? every positive test sullies our sport. why expose (and discredit further) the sport that provides the athlete an identity and in some rare cases a very nice living? clean ath;letes are doing enough for the sport by staying clean and having the integrity to play by the rules. there is no onus on them to name names.

The same incentive a dirty cheater has to turn in one of his/her own, namely better lane draws with the absense of their foe; more available prize money; VIP treatment to/from/during meets. Alienate his/her sport from the masses? The sport isn:t on the map but once every four years in the USA. Every positive test kicks out an unwanted member of an exclusive club. Expose and discredit a sport which provides a means to live/survive? Sponsors (Nike) aren:t shy of laying out the bucks for good talent, period. Neither is adidas.


No onus to name names? I:d call this a bit foolish.


so should the clean athletes go about wearing hidden microphones or cameras? scavenging trash cans in a dirty athlete's home? if a clean athlete reports a dirty athlete without proof, its going to get ugly. the burden of proof is on the accuser, after all, and so unless there is proof, the reputation of the clean athlete is going to be tainted as a "poor loser" or "self serving hypocrite" by fans and people on message boards.

nevermind the fact that if USADA or the IAAF (or the various corporate sponsors) start having to take every accusation seriously, and investigate each accusation, things are going to get very expensive and bogged down. athletes will be accusing each other left and right in order to gain a competitive advantage and disrupt the lives of their rivals. is this what you want?
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Postby balzonia » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:33 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
balzonia wrote:you also must look at what is the incentive for a clean athlete to turn in a suspected cheater? why would a clean athlete want to further alienate his beloved sport from the masses? every positive test sullies our sport. why expose (and discredit further) the sport that provides the athlete an identity and in some rare cases a very nice living? clean ath;letes are doing enough for the sport by staying clean and having the integrity to play by the rules. there is no onus on them to name names.

So are you saying that clean athletes should keep their mouths shut even if an agent, trainer, coach or fellow athlete tries to provide them with PED's?


unless there is tangible proof, yes.
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Postby EPelle » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:50 am

balzonia wrote:so should the clean athletes go about wearing hidden microphones or cameras? scavenging trash cans in a dirty athlete's home? if a clean athlete reports a dirty athlete without proof, its going to get ugly. the burden of proof is on the accuser, after all, and so unless there is proof, the reputation of the clean athlete is going to be tainted as a "poor loser" or "self serving hypocrite" by fans and people on message boards.

nevermind the fact that if USADA or the IAAF (or the various corporate sponsors) start having to take every accusation seriously, and investigate each accusation, things are going to get very expensive and bogged down. athletes will be accusing each other left and right in order to gain a competitive advantage and disrupt the lives of their rivals. is this what you want?

There are toll-free lines one can dial and leave an anonymous tip. Up to IAAF to determine the veracity of the tip. Worked in the case of catching Veneva and Stambolova.
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Postby Marlow » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:56 am

Marlow wrote:Uh oh, I hear the crypt door to the 'Dope Forum' being opened. The stench is already overpowering.

So it is written; so shall it be. :(
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Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:16 pm

balzonia wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
balzonia wrote:you also must look at what is the incentive for a clean athlete to turn in a suspected cheater? why would a clean athlete want to further alienate his beloved sport from the masses? every positive test sullies our sport. why expose (and discredit further) the sport that provides the athlete an identity and in some rare cases a very nice living? clean ath;letes are doing enough for the sport by staying clean and having the integrity to play by the rules. there is no onus on them to name names.

So are you saying that clean athletes should keep their mouths shut even if an agent, trainer, coach or fellow athlete tries to provide them with PED's?


unless there is tangible proof, yes.

Would an tape recording of a conversation, in which PED's are being peddled, suffice?
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Postby donley2 » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:45 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
balzonia wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
balzonia wrote:you also must look at what is the incentive for a clean athlete to turn in a suspected cheater? why would a clean athlete want to further alienate his beloved sport from the masses? every positive test sullies our sport. why expose (and discredit further) the sport that provides the athlete an identity and in some rare cases a very nice living? clean ath;letes are doing enough for the sport by staying clean and having the integrity to play by the rules. there is no onus on them to name names.

So are you saying that clean athletes should keep their mouths shut even if an agent, trainer, coach or fellow athlete tries to provide them with PED's?


unless there is tangible proof, yes.

Would an tape recording of a conversation, in which PED's are being peddled, suffice?


Tim Montgomery and Chryste Gaines got busted on less than a taped conversation. They were busted essentially on Kelli Whites testimony (and the fact they did not refute it).
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