Jones: 6-Month Sentence


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Postby Athleticsimaging » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:07 pm

"Six months in prison is a lot," Davies told Reuters by telephone from IAAF headquarters in Monte Carlo. "But you do hope that it will be a deterrent to others.


You just have to love people with vain hopes and little clue. Let's not forget that she is not going to jail for doping, she is going to jail for perjury. The doping is purely incidental and the same outcome could have been achieved with any manner of activities she had to lie about.

All this will do is to make dopers more careful about construcing plausible deniability or other get outs well ahead of time instead of after the fact. It won't be a deterrent just a very good training exercise.
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Postby schigh » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:53 pm

dakota wrote:I also typed "steroids" and "high school" into Google and found a San Francisco Chronicle article which cited a nationwide study from 2005 that found 5% of seniors admitted having tried steroids, and 40% said they were easily available.


I don't think that going after a few high profile athletes after the fact is going to change to culture of steroids in athletics that is tacitly condoned (especially in baseball). It really seems like a side show to me and I'm not seeing a full committment to eliminate PED's going forward. Their are lots of sports successes out there who aren't getting "caught" and these surveys also show that there is a willingness to risk serious future health problems for "the gold" why not risk getting caught with that type of thought process.
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:09 pm

schigh wrote:. . . culture of steroids in athletics that is tacitly condoned (especially in baseball).

Open your eyes, people. Football, pro and college, much more winky winky on PEDs than baseball . . .
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Postby schigh » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:32 pm

bad hammy wrote:
schigh wrote:. . . culture of steroids in athletics that is tacitly condoned (especially in baseball).

Open your eyes, people. Football, pro and college, much more winky winky on PEDs than baseball . . .


OK. Agree. Long history of being condoned in many sports, football, track, cycling, etc. I was just sidetracked by the pretend investigation by baseball recently.
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Postby Pego » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:32 pm

bad hammy wrote:
schigh wrote:. . . culture of steroids in athletics that is tacitly condoned (especially in baseball).

Open your eyes, people. Football, pro and college, much more winky winky on PEDs than baseball . . .


When my kids went to high school (in the eighties), I as informed by some of their friends that there was some steroid use among the football players.
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Postby malmo » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:35 pm

Daisy wrote:
trackrebel wrote:what the hell is wrong with this judge? has he taken into account that the man who sold the drugs to how many athletes only had to go to jail for four months?

.... yes I know perjury is a crime...


If it was not for the money laundering I expect she would have got less. I don't think you can compare Conte and Jones' sentences.


Exactly. By all rights she should have been charged as a partner in the conspiracy and would have been facing a long time in the clink. She got a gift.

Perjury is not only a crime -- without truthful testimony our entire legal system would be on a shaky foundation. Perjury IS, by default, a serious crime. Six months is appropriate.
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Postby kuha » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:07 pm

tandfman wrote:I think the problem is that she lied to us, she robbed us and cheated us of the pleasure that we derived from her success. She hurt us. We invested our emotions and our support, and she has now stolen the rewards of that investment. We're not the only victims of what she did, but track fans everywhere feel personally betrayed.


I've been watching the reaction-to-MJ from an arm's length. It does seem clear to me that the fans most angry now are exactly the ones who had the greatest emotional investment in her. I don't share the anger, in large measure, I suppose, because I never had much emotion invested in her. I was impressed by her performances, but (frankly) cared little about the person--didn't know and didn't really care whether she was good, bad, or indifferent. So, now, I personally do not feel "cheated" at all. The money I paid to watch the meets in which she competed was worth it to me, regardless of what we now know about her. OK, maybe I now feel I only got 96% of my money's worth from those meets, but I'm fine with that.

I've never quite understood the need to see pro athletes as "role models." They are performers, and we can and should applaud their performances. However, anything beyond that becomes a bit strange. I don't look to the great artists--Manet, Picasso, Jasper Johns, whoever--as role models. I appreciate their work...and the life story is what it is. I revere Secretariat but have a hard time figuring out how he might be a role model.

The fact that some athetes are genuinely great human beings--and I honestly think that Geb, Tergat, and a handful of others are truly that--is a wonderful anomaly, and a gift. Athletic excellence (indeed, ANY kind of excellence) has no necessary relation to moral virtue: none. Some great athletes, artists, etc., are saints, and some are criminals. Some thoroughly mediocre athletes, artists, etc., are saints, and some are criminals. Most athletes, etc., are somewhere in between: mostly decent, but fallible human beings.

If it's role models we're after, we need to look well beyond the playing field to find a really significant number. They're out there, for sure, but few are Olympic gold medalists.
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Postby bambam » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:08 pm

gh wrote:...I don't know what Obadele Thompson is like, and don't want to hear about if he's from the same mold as the others. ...


I've heard he is a really good guy, and nothing like her previous husbands and associates.
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Postby dakota » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:13 pm

Secretariat could be a role model to other athletes and celebrities in that he didn't say very much.
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Postby Daisy » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:24 am

Strange quote from the judge.

Judge Karas said he believed a message needed to be sent to athletes who have abused drugs and as a result, have overlooked the values of "hard work, dedication, teamwork and sportsmanship".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7182969.stm


I have to disagree with the hard work and dedication part. If anything the drugs allow them to work harder. He seems to be under the impression the strength is an automatic by product of steroids.
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Postby EPelle » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:25 am

kuha wrote:...I've never quite understood the need to see pro athletes as "role models." They are performers, and we can and should applaud their performances. However, anything beyond that becomes a bit strange. I don't look to the great artists--Manet, Picasso, Jasper Johns, whoever--as role models. I appreciate their work...and the life story is what it is. I revere Secretariat but have a hard time figuring out how he might be a role model...

Excellent post, kuha.

Karas spoke for approximately 20 minutes during Jones sentencing hearing. Among the points he made was that she was, as an Olympian, a defacto role model. You may not agree with that, but recall from those 2000 Nike commercials: Jones called for athletes to be better role models. Privately, Jones not only accused her peers of not walking along a path as role models, but she also cast the first stone at them as well. She had a desire for women to be respected (and she used those Nike commercials as a platform for that), yet she was oblivious to the perception women had of her following her long string of very poor choices in men, managers, trainers, and, ultimately, in her poor choices when it came to taking drugs and lying to investigators. Craddock, her UNC trainer, would later say that Jones was a role model and a hero to many young people.

Bev Kearney would also state on previous occasion:

“You have a responsibility that goes beyond the playing field. You have a responsibility to teach and to inspire young people in terms of intellectual wisdom and not just academic wisdom. You teach life skills and how to be successful as an African American in our society and as a woman in our society.”

Jones stated she stood for being a role model, yet she failed to live up to her part. She took it upon herself to be one. Karas reminded her of her obligation.
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Postby eldrick » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:55 am

Athleticsimaging wrote:
"Six months in prison is a lot," Davies told Reuters by telephone from IAAF headquarters in Monte Carlo. "But you do hope that it will be a deterrent to others.


You just have to love people with vain hopes and little clue. Let's not forget that she is not going to jail for doping, she is going to jail for perjury. The doping is purely incidental and the same outcome could have been achieved with any manner of activities she had to lie about.

All this will do is to make dopers more careful about construcing plausible deniability or other get outs well ahead of time instead of after the fact. It won't be a deterrent just a very good training exercise.


great post

silly moo denise lewis repeats iaaf guy :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/7184203.stm

If you take it into the realm of lying when questioned, you'll get punished


not with jail if it's only to iaaf/wada
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Postby gh » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:49 am

Daisy wrote:Strange quote from the judge.

Judge Karas said he believed a message needed to be sent to athletes who have abused drugs and as a result, have overlooked the values of "hard work, dedication, teamwork and sportsmanship".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7182969.stm


I have to disagree with the hard work and dedication part. If anything the drugs allow them to work harder. He seems to be under the impression the strength is an automatic by product of steroids.


Yes, the great irony is that it has become chic to call "steroids" the easy way when in fact they don't deliver their magic unless you work harder. They just facilitate your ability to do so.
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Postby gh » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:51 am

I've seen approximately 122,000 different news headlines on Jones in the last 24 hours. The best was from Australia's Courier-Mail:

<<gold medals to iron bars>>
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Postby EPelle » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:43 pm

Lost in the news is what C.J. Hunter feels (spoken through his attorney):

"I certainly think it's fair to say that whereas C.J. does not relish anyone having to go through this, certainly not someone he was married to ... it is a vindication of the story he told the grand jury, and he testified truthfully."
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Postby malmo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:28 pm

EPelle wrote:Lost in the news is what C.J. Hunter feels (spoken through his attorney):

"I certainly think it's fair to say that whereas C.J. does not relish anyone having to go through this, certainly not someone he was married to ... it is a vindication of the story he told the grand jury, and he testified truthfully."


All but forgotten, those who testified truthfully in those grand jury hearings were smeared publicly by Marion and others here on this message board.
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:47 pm

malmo wrote:
EPelle wrote:Lost in the news is what C.J. Hunter feels (spoken through his attorney):

"I certainly think it's fair to say that whereas C.J. does not relish anyone having to go through this, certainly not someone he was married to ... it is a vindication of the story he told the grand jury, and he testified truthfully."


All but forgotten, those who testified truthfully in those grand jury hearings were smeared publicly by Marion and others here on this message board.

Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play . . .
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Postby malmo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:54 pm

bad hammy wrote: Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play .

I didn't suggest anything like that.

They were roundly condemned by Marion and others here specifically because of their truthful testimony against Marion.

Just so your clear on this, being truthful isn't something to be applauded for, it's what you're supposed to do.
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:03 pm

malmo wrote:
bad hammy wrote: Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play .

I didn't suggest anything like that.

Actually, yes you did . . .
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Postby malmo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:11 pm

bad hammy wrote:
malmo wrote:
bad hammy wrote: Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play .

I didn't suggest anything like that.

Actually, yes you did . . .


Actually NO. I explicitly said so.
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Postby malmo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:11 pm

bad hammy wrote:
malmo wrote:
bad hammy wrote: Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play .

I didn't suggest anything like that.

Actually, yes you did . . .


Actually NO, and I explicitly said so.
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Postby tandfman » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:46 pm

You've got two consecutive posts there, malmo, one at the end of page 2 and the other at the top of page 3 and no, they don't say the same thing. The addition of the conjunction changed the meaning.
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Justice is served

Postby WalkandJog » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:00 pm

Who cares about what Jones says and whether she is contrite. The judge did the correct thing by sending her to PRISON. That is the important message sent to everyone, especially children. Not sure if the judge was altogether sensible in sending Jones to speak to children about PED's. Sort of like sending a convicted felon drug dealer to speak to kids about drugs. Makes me uneasy. If anything, she should be KEPT AWAY FROM impressionable young minds and she has done enough damage to the youth of the world.
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Re: Justice is served

Postby Pego » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:10 am

WalkandJog wrote:Who cares about what Jones says and whether she is contrite. The judge did the correct thing by sending her to PRISON. That is the important message sent to everyone, especially children. Not sure if the judge was altogether sensible in sending Jones to speak to children about PED's. Sort of like sending a convicted felon drug dealer to speak to kids about drugs. Makes me uneasy. If anything, she should be KEPT AWAY FROM impressionable young minds and she has done enough damage to the youth of the world.


Nonsense.
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Postby unclezadok » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:12 am

The charge of "lying to investigators" is what the feds stick someone with when they don't have a case. It could be called "The Martha Stewart Law." Basically if you don't tell them the story they want, you've committed a crime. It's also the charge they make suspects plead to when threatening them with other charges. Marion was basically guilty with hanging around with shady characters. Giving her jail time is just prosecutors and judges making a name for themselves.
I assume that she is telling the truth when she says she took PEDs. In that case she should be out of the sport, but not in jail.
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Postby EPelle » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:25 am

You failed to mention the other get-rich-scheme in which she was involved -- the one of real consequence.
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Postby bad hammy » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:53 am

EPelle wrote:You failed to mention the other get-rich-scheme in which she was involved -- the one of real consequence.

But again, she was busted for lying, nothing else.
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Postby EPelle » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:05 pm

Exactly, which is why, "Marion was basically guilty with hanging around with shady characters," doesn:t fit the bill.
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Postby Mennisco » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:09 am

malmo wrote:
Just so your clear on this, being truthful isn't something to be applauded for, it's what you're supposed to do.


Unfortunately we can't ask questions of everyone in the power structure that hangs like a ball and chain over athletics - some know more than they ever have to reveal, and that's just the way the world turns. Up and down are highly relative notions which depend, among other things, on where you're standing, sitting - or even lying.
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