eldrick wrote:steve wrote:MJD wrote:http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=423226#423226
they have drug tests for that
he failed none
LMAO...!
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Four-Year Ban for Gatlin
You're distorting the facts. The first time she got "busted" was when she missed a test as a high schooler when, as I recall, FedEx package went awry. Equating jaywalking with grand theft auto is silly.
Maybe for anyone else but her crimes were systemic. Who knows what else she was doing at the time, as I said in my earlier post. And I won't even bring up her disappearing from the scene. malmo's oil well fire comes to mind here.
you suggesting a 16y gal was using drugs to win a school meet ?!
disappearing from scene ? - you mean when she went to play lucrative basketball in mid-'90s ? - pregnant in '02 ( drug use is teratogenic - you abort under this possibility ) ?
Now I know I was wrong!!! 
There aren't enough nootropics on the planet..................you get the picture!! 
The obvious disappearance which was not mentioned here was in 2003. CA State Meet is not a school meet by any stretch of the imagination, and having stated so blackens your argument, not helps it. It is (arguably) the most difficult state to win a championship in. She won nine titles.
how about having a new born baby & taking a year out to raise it ?
is this "concept" new to you ? as for school meet - i'm familiar with "proper" track - euro meets & gp to me it's an insignificant school meet - show me 10.9/22-flat times from it & then i'm interested
Funny.
Since you decided to use hand times: 10,9 = 11,14. 11,14 places top-5 at plenty of GP meets. MJ won 1992 CIF State Meet in 11,14, and 1991 state meet in 11,17 -- both under allowable winds. Kelli White was sixth in the 11,14 race. Last edited by EPelle on Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
what does this nonsense mean ? she had her baby june '03 for 3-4/12 before she'd have been too heavily pregnant & then afterwards she'd have been in no shape to compete for at least 3/12 to get the weight off so mr obstetrician, please tell us how on earth you expected her to compete in '03 to any elite standard ?
i don't do hand times where's my 10.9 ???
Even if you are right, you won't get much agreement on this board that CA HS track isn't some of the best in the world. Now, suddenly, when talking about MJ, CA HS meets have been reduced to twilight meets with tafnut interfering near the pole vault pit. Quite funny. I can easily buy a 16 year old breaking the rules then. She had access to some of the best legal advice anyone could get-what is so unreasonable about her having access to PEDs at that age? I say again, what is with this MJ, Gatlin defending stuff? Shouldn't we all be happy these blights on the sport got busted, hope they are gone for good and move on?
Alas, a new title and plaque for my wall. May I choose which university from which I was awarded this? I:ll go with Stanford University School of Medicine. Gosh, how shall I integrate this degree with my current ones? Need an answer? Ask Jones and Riddick -- who used her pregnancy as a basis of increased strength.
11,14 still places at nearly ever GP meet. Don:t avoid the obvious. You like to use NCAA-competition times as some sort of leverage in your arguments when appropriate (Gatlin), but not CA High School meet. Whatever. Good luck holding this argument with anyone else here who has the inclination or desire to play in the streets with you.
Good choice - altho the Law and Biz Schools are equally appealing! Actually almost all of Stanford's Grad schools are in the top 5 of the nation, so feel free to browse!
MJD, EPelle, don't you think you are arguing ad absurdum?
Marion was caught cheating, period. Anything before that is pure, unwaranted speculation. To argue that she continued using steroids during her pregnancy boggles the mind. No woman would do that for whatever reason. Comparison of Gatlin's "first offense" with Marion's BALCO situation lacks any common points.
Please find where I said that. eldrick CONCLUDED that is what I was implying. You guys are trying to find arguments where they don't(and shouldn't) exist. I have no doubt they have both been serial offenders. Only comparison I have been making. I thought we were operating with blinders off now?
A bit of history: the Cali age-group track world was agog at Jones's jaw-dropping performances years before she was 16. She was clearly one of history's greatest sprint talents from the get-go. To suggest she needed to enhance as an early high schooler is ludicrous. Unless, of course, you want to enter into a grassy-knoll school of thought that has her as the first elementary school doper.
That's what many of us have been saying. Yes, I had myopia in her case and my solution was to wear rose-colored glasses. Sadly those broke and I've had to see how ugly the world really is. I used to think she was innocent because she had the most talent, but it's obvious in hind-sight (I've got new specs now) that her paranoia about STAYING at the top is what killed her. I get that. But to suggest that she was doped in the early years is MattMarriott stuff.
One possibility (to my mind, and it is NOT the only one) is that she started taking stuff to be able to do the "Drive for Five". She had the talent for each, but needed the enhanced recovery and greater likelihood for each to be more likely to be the "top" athlete. This scenario would have her doping in 2000 and not necessarily before then. 1999 was a great year for her but did not as many events to compete in and the WCs are not the Olympics for the place in super-stardom that she was after.
Is it possible that she thought she would get there just with her talent and 'improvements' from her new coaching arrangements (and that she did not know they were PEDs)? Yes, though that is not my most likely guess. [edited to add: Also, not so likely the whole truth in light of: 'Prosecutors recently offered the judge more evidence of Jones’s drug use — doping calendars and a doctor’s testimony that signaled use of EPO and human growth hormone.' from the NYTimes link on the homepage.]
Another reply to MJD, EPelle.
Fine, so you did not suggest Marion's use of steroids in pregnancy and I misread your statements. For that I apologize. Nevertheless, you both had nailed Marion long BEFORE there was a credible evidence against her. Now you are applying the same standard to Gatlin. Let the evidence work. I won't repeat it, the 26miler did an excellent job on it. A post to tafnut. Requiring a proof of guilt is NOT the same as wearing "rose-colored glasses". I feel the few of us that were called various pejorative names such as "Marion's apologists" being the gentlest had the right attitude. "One is innocent until proven guilty." I'll do the same for anybody, whether I like him/her or not.
One viable scenario has her doping for the same reason that Bonds allegedly did (and maybe right around the same time?): McGwire hits 70 and Bonds realizes he'll never do it clean, even though he's already one of the greatest players in history. Similarly, Jones is on top of the world but realizes that she'll never be WR holder.
All I am saying is that nothing would surprise me and clearly the rest of you would still be surprised(that is saying something much different than not letting a legal process go through). We're talking past each other. If you aren't reasonably convinced that Gatlin hasn't always been a user(which is saying something different than you don't think he is LEGALLY guilty), then, yes, IMHO y'all still have the blinders on.
Do high school athletes take steroids or prohibitive substances? Yes, they do. Do some high school athletes who are already excelling in their events (fotboll, for example) not take steroids? Absolutely, unequivocally, and undeniably so. Must the names Justin Gatlin or Marion Jones -- or Joe Smith, for that matter -- exclude the bearers of such names from having also done so simply because they were already good long before such speculation occured due to later doping violations?
For the record, Jones, following her missed 1993 test (she had 48 hours to report to the test, but the paperwork was apparently sent to her high school trainer:s junior college), decided to forego her post-season competition, despite just missing a spot on the 1992 Olympic team; World Champs were there for the taking. Jones, in 2006, following another brush with disaster, again discontinued competing.
Speculation about the found-guilty does not--within the bounds of good taste--violate the guidelines. I would also stipulate that "found guilty" means in that class of violation. If somebody serves a 1-day suspension for a cold-meds violation, doesn't mean it's open season to suggest that they're a roid-monster.
Still world age group record holder as follows: 100 meters Age 15 - 11.17 Age 16 - 11.14 200 meters Age 15 - 22.76 Age 16 - 22.58 Don't have US-only records. http://dominique.100free.com/
What I stated above, namely no one is immune from that stuff simply because they are nice kids, go to church, have well-known names and run fast. It:s speculative, and in a court of law, it would be objected. This is a message board, however, and one is simply turning the coin over.
Do high school students ever take drugs? What do you KNOW about Gatlin that suggests he never did, since you suggest he was not involved in that stuff? We both have the same issue: Neither knows, so you go with his character. Strike one on your side... oops, make that two-strikes and four years.
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