I don't really know how I feel ;part of me says yes the other says no-that prisons should only be those who pose a risk to society. On the hand I don't want her given a community service sentence where she talks to young people about not taking PEDs. She has not shown any real, sincere remorse yet for her years of lying and cheating.
So what do you think- should Marion spend time in the slammer and if not what would be an appropriate punishment? (or has she paid enough of a price already-assuming she loses her medals?).
I realize she would go to prison for lying to federal agents.
eldrick wrote:on the basis of her "confession", she de-frauded anyone who turned up to a meet, to specifically see her run fraud is a criminal offence...
oooo - class-action suit! Some ambulance-chaser should pick that up!
ABOSLUTELY NOT. WTF [to use a silly chat acronym]? Jailtime for doping? Jailtime for lying about being on drugs? The shame is enough. Heck, then we need to put Barry Bonds in jail to [wasn't he called to the court and lied or am I wrong about that?]. Anyhow, this is just as silly as impeaching Clinton for lying about a blow*&$.
When you don't bother to tell the truth to the Feds,you're obstructing justice, ie. costing the investigation more time and money. This isn't about her PED history.
Marion has been on a razor's edge for so long that she should have been better prepared for this eventuality.
I'm sorry she has to go to the joint --sort of-- but whatever time she does, I have the feeling it's probably going to be less than she deserves.
nctrackfan wrote:She has suffered. She's bankrupt. Her life as she knew it, is ruined. I don't think prison time is warranted here.
We enjoy raising them up to stardom, but we just LOVE tearing them down don't we? Sure, she is a scumbag and she has been hogging money/sponsorships from other more deserving athletes. This annoys the heck out of me and she should be banned from the sport for all eternity, but we cannot treat her or other cheating athletes [Ben Johnson comes to mind] as common criminals. Don't you guys think that she deserves better?
In general, athletes possess something that should be celebrated and that 99% of the general population in the world is lacking: A strong will/motivation to push the boundaries/limits of the human capacity i.e. to transcend our species. The importance of pushing both the intellectual/physical limits cannot be underestimated from an evolutionary perspective in my humble opinion. Without this rare mentality we would still be sitting in the trees as lemurs. So, even the Marion Jones's and Ben Johnsons of the world should be celebrated to some extent. Especially by all "doughnut-eating-, couch-potato-, TV-loving American Joe Schmoes", who does little or nothing for the positive development of mankind [except passing down the obesitin gene to the next generation that is].
What does being an athlete have to do with anything? Athletes should NOT be treated differently than anyone else. If our legal system says her wrongdoing is criminal, she's a criminal. If it says she should go to jail, she should go to jail. Period.
Mats Nilsson wrote:but we cannot treat her or other cheating athletes [Ben Johnson comes to mind] as common criminals. Don't you guys think that she deserves better?
Hardly an accurate comparison. Jail time was never in the picture for BJ.
There is little connection with the jail time and her taking the PED's or being a superstar athlete. On the other hand there is a connection with her perjury and fraud. It is the latter two that are going to get her jail time.
Mats Nilsson wrote:but we cannot treat her or other cheating athletes [Ben Johnson comes to mind] as common criminals. Don't you guys think that she deserves better?
Hardly an accurate comparison. Jail time was never in the picture for BJ.
There is little connection with the jail time and her taking the PED's or being a superstar athlete. On the other hand there is a connection with her perjury and fraud. It is the latter two that are going to get her jail time.
You are missing the point Daisy. The point is that we [the general population + media] treat these athletes as low life criminals in all ways except for jail time. Ben was treated as a murderer and I think you know that. If we would have let him walk down Yonge street in Toronto in 1988, people would have spat at him at best and lynched the poor soul at worst. And now we are contemplating giving Jones some time in the box for lying to the feds about her own THG-abuse...c'mon it is not like she was distributing it to underaged athletes or something. She is simply not a criminal. Sports should be kept out of the civil courts as much as possible.
tafnut wrote:What does being an athlete have to do with anything? Athletes should NOT be treated differently than anyone else. If our legal system says her wrongdoing is criminal, she's a criminal. If it says she should go to jail, she should go to jail. Period.
Perhaps your legal system is fucked up tafnut. have you ever contemplated that?
EDIT: And yes, if Joe Schmoe gets caught in a lie about using THG to improve his hairgrowth on his balding scalp and then gets jailtime by the feds [since he ultimately used his good looks to get a competitive advantage in seducing rich women] ...then of course Marion Jones should serve some time as well.
Last edited by Mats Nilsson on Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mats Nilsson wrote:She is simply not a criminal. Sports should be kept out of the civil courts as much as possible.
So athletes should be immune to federal law? Martha Stewart went to prison for a lot less.
It depends on the each individual case of course. I have never mentioned something about immunity. All I am saying is that drug-use in elite sports should not be a concern of the feds. There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to drugs in general.
Mats Nilsson wrote:She is simply not a criminal. Sports should be kept out of the civil courts as much as possible.
So athletes should be immune to federal law? Martha Stewart went to prison for a lot less.
It depends on the each individual case of course. I have never mentioned something about immunity. All I am saying is that drug-use in elite sports should not be a concern of the feds. There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to drugs in general.
The Feds don't care about PED's, they only care about lying. That's why Jason Giambi, who admitted his drug use to them, faced no legal consequences. I'm not saying that I agree with the law. I didn't even know the law existed until a couple of years ago. But we do live in a country where the President was impeached for lying about his sex life.
It's one thing to go to prison for lying to federal investigators. It is quite another state of affairs to go to jail for using steroids. If all guilty athletes decided to confess tomorrow, any nominations for the location of the new Trump Calaboose Tower?
Mats Nilsson wrote:She is simply not a criminal. Sports should be kept out of the civil courts as much as possible.
So athletes should be immune to federal law? Martha Stewart went to prison for a lot less.
It depends on the each individual case of course. I have never mentioned something about immunity. All I am saying is that drug-use in elite sports should not be a concern of the feds. There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to drugs in general.
The Feds don't care about PED's, they only care about lying. That's why Jason Giambi, who admitted his drug use to them, faced no legal consequences. I'm not saying that I agree with the law. I didn't even know the law existed until a couple of years ago. But we do live in a country where the President was impeached for lying about his sex life.
I understand why she is potentially facing jailtime, but I think it is ludicrous and a little bit hypocritical.
Mats Nilsson wrote:but we cannot treat her or other cheating athletes [Ben Johnson comes to mind] as common criminals. Don't you guys think that she deserves better?
Hardly an accurate comparison. Jail time was never in the picture for BJ.
There is little connection with the jail time and her taking the PED's or being a superstar athlete. On the other hand there is a connection with her perjury and fraud. It is the latter two that are going to get her jail time.
You are missing the point Daisy. The point is that we [the general population + media] treat these athletes as low life criminals in all ways except for jail time.
OK, I did miss that this was your point. This whole thread seems to be at cross purposes. There are two issues. First, does Marion Jones deserve to go to jail. I don't think there is any doubt about this (fraud and perjury). Second, and the more interesting debate, should athletes who are caught using PED's be treated like criminals. I do not believe they should be. However, I do think they should be banned from the sport for breaking the rules. Are the rules fair? That is a third issue.
Mats Nilsson wrote:but we cannot treat her or other cheating athletes [Ben Johnson comes to mind] as common criminals. Don't you guys think that she deserves better?
Hardly an accurate comparison. Jail time was never in the picture for BJ.
There is little connection with the jail time and her taking the PED's or being a superstar athlete. On the other hand there is a connection with her perjury and fraud. It is the latter two that are going to get her jail time.
You are missing the point Daisy. The point is that we [the general population + media] treat these athletes as low life criminals in all ways except for jail time.
OK, I did miss that this was your point. This whole thread seems to be at cross purposes. There are two issues. First, does Marion Jones deserve to go to jail. I don't think there is any doubt about this (fraud and perjury). Second, and the more interesting debate, should athletes who are caught using PED's be treated like criminals. I do not believe they should be. However, I do think they should be banned from the sport for breaking the rules. Are the rules fair? That is a third issue.
Exactly, but I still don't agree with the first point. We can save that discussion for another forum on the American judicial system/politics.
Mats Nilsson wrote:Tuscaloosa....not Birmingham. Big difference.
Aha, I see - no wonder you're bitter!
Oh yeah, my "bitterness and despair" keeps me up day and night Tafnut. Tell me the logic in this: on one hand you defended MJ a couple of years ago although it was obvious that she had been juicing and now you are the first one in line to crucify her. How noble. Where is your humanity?
I am a constant critique of doping-users and I think they should be banned life-time from the sport. When I was an active athlete, the reason for this was purely egotistical. Nowadays, I just feel sympathy for all the athletes that are trying to push the limits withut using PEDS. However, I have also realized that sport is never really on a level playing field to start with [compare the training conditions of an African javelin thrower to a Finnish for example], so from a philosphical perspective I don't think that PED users are morally inferior to Joe Schmoe who is taking Viagra to improve his sexual ability. All walks of life are extremely competitive and while we allow the general population to improve their performance we hold the athletes to a higher standard. I find it hypocritical to some extent. Thus, I would and will never allow myself to compare the PED users to low-life criminals regardless if they lie about it in federal court or not [it is not like the feds always tell the truth anyway ].
why was the plea entered in a U.S. District Court in New York State (White Plains, NY)? What is the significance of using New York State? If she does happen to actually serve jail time, anybody know what prison or state that might be in?
tafnut wrote:What does being an athlete have to do with anything? Athletes should NOT be treated differently than anyone else. If our legal system says her wrongdoing is criminal, she's a criminal. If it says she should go to jail, she should go to jail. Period.
I don't think you are capable of viewing this topic objectively, certainly not so soon after the "crime".
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