Marion to plead guilty to doping!


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Postby Half Miler » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:04 pm

sl wrote:Did I miss it or was there no apology in her video statement to clean competitors she beat while cheating?


Good point. I would have liked to have seen that as well. There may be more apologies to come.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:24 pm

I understand the people who are angry and the people who are sad. Whats the best road to take on this. If you believe she is truely sorry than its a no brainer and if you dont its a no brainer.

What do i think. I think she's sorry she got caught. For you on the other side a question. If she had never been caught do you think she would be happy to get away with it with no guilt at all? I do.

Theres also the question of the $25,000.00 check .
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:27 pm

Kelli White gave the most candid and contrite interview of any doper I've ever seen. I believe that her confession is what actually did her in since, the IAAF didn't actually have the goods to ban her without the confession. She never pretended that she didn't know what she was taking and you actually got the sense that her conscious was tormenting her the whole time she was doping, which probably explains why she didn't dope for very long. With Jones, I get the impression that she only admitted to what was expedient for her legal predicament. I get no sense that she struggled with the decision to dope while she was actually doping.
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Postby mojo » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:34 pm

I just can not muster up any sympathy for her-and I have actually been trying all day to see how that would be possible.
We all know the harm she has caused to the sport, to the fans and to all the women she beat her were clean. We all know that not once did she have a prick of guilt-at least not enough to make her stop from suing people, writing a book and cashing in on the all American good girl image.
I am glad she said that her behaviour should be a lesson to young kids but really will they hear it?

I have had three emails from young teens I coach. They said they aren't surprised and think she just fessed up to save her own bacon. They also seem to believe that you can't make it to the very top in some events unless you take drugs (and we do all we can to disuade them of that)and yet they still idolize mnay athletes. I guess they are hoping their idols aren't cheating. Fine to say us coaches and parents should be role models but the power of stardom and glory is very enticing. (and not just to kids).

So in the end I just can't tear up over Marion and her contrite press conference. It is way too late in the game.

Bye Marion- please just stay away from the sport.
Last edited by mojo on Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Half Miler » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:37 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I get no sense that she struggled with the decision to dope while she was actually doping.


See, I do.

I think most of us cheat, lie, break the law and that we all struggle with it. There are times when I know I'm about to make a questionable moral decision, but I rationalize and then do it anyway. "Look, everyone else is doing it!" is a common rationalization. No, it doesn't make it right, but it does make it easier. And I think that's probably what happened with Marion (in addition to other reasons we'll never know).

Also, I don't think her tears were faked. Which means I believe that she honestly feels like shit for deceiving people.
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:53 pm

Half Miler wrote:Also, I don't think her tears were faked. Which means I believe that she honestly feels like shit for deceiving people.

That I do not believe. In my opinion she feels like shit for being caught . . .
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Postby cacique » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:56 pm

i watched her live statement on tv. i didn't realize how sad and angry i was from this whole thing. of course she was one of my heroes, but soon enough i was disenchanted by what she was doing, the company she was keeping, etc. every time she went on tv to deny the allegations, i suspected she was lying.

i'm so pissed right now because i did admire her. now i absolutely hate her. i feel that there's still quite a lot she hasn't told us. i doubt she was only doping from 1999 to 2001. that's the episode she's been caught, but who knows what else she has not been caught with yet?
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Postby mojo » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:57 pm

bad hammy wrote:
Half Miler wrote:Also, I don't think her tears were faked. Which means I believe that she honestly feels like shit for deceiving people.

That I do not believe. She feels like shit for being caught . . .


Yep.

Oh I am sure she feels some shame and regret but until the her back was against the wall I think she slept just fine at night. (and we don't know for sure of course but anyone with a tinge of guilt all those years would not have been as vociferous as she has been).
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Postby SQUACKEE » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:03 pm

cacique wrote:
i'm so pissed right now because i did admire her.


Look Marion.Imagine this by a million. The next Marion take note. DO you what this? DO YOU!
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Re: Knew it

Postby DaveW » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:07 pm

WalkandJog wrote:It was so interesting a few years ago when it was such a hot debate about whether Marion was clean. Everyone deep down knew she was dirty. It was probably more interesting to see the excuses that Marion's supporters came up with to say she was clean. Everyone hates someone who says "I told you so," but in this case it was so obvious that it was painful to see how blindly faithful Marion's supporters were. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck, but runs faster than a cheetah, sumthin ain't right.

[Admin Edited] :twisted:


Marion Jones would say anything for a dollar. The dollar has influence on many aspects of the sport. If Marion Jones would say anything, who else might?
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Postby Mennisco » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:16 pm

Haven't read the thread, at 8 pages I don't have time. But a cursory glance of her confessional letter makes me wonder when she will start telling the WHOLE truth. Unless I missed something, she claims the doping began in '99. I do not believe that part. It began in '97, when she surged to 10.76 and 21.76 clockings. She never ran faster at sea level in the 200. She improved by 0.06 at sea level in the 100. Am I to believe that she came back and reached what amounted to her career peak [damn close enough to it] in 1997, and only started doping 2 years later? I don't believe it, and anyone who does is living in la-la land.

It is of course possible she was doped without knowing it in '97.

I sure hope nobody out there wants to emulate her without getting caught. I also hope that a comet will swing by the earth tomorrow and crop dust the environment with a beneficent compound that ups the average IQ by at least 20 points, and also instills rock solid honesty in every human being. Then the former might come to pass. :P
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Postby Littlemac » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:08 pm

Half Miler wrote:Just watched Marion's apology.

I teared up.

Despite what many/most of you have said, I do think it takes courage to apologize like that. She could have gone away quietly, which would have been easier.

Don't you guys realize how often people lie?

Take a guess and then multiply that by 10.

Like many in (and out of) the sport, Marion lied, and lied again. Of course it's wrong. Of course it tarnishes her achievements. But I'm in agreement with the poster who made the comparison to "having killed someone". There are many more liars out there who will never admit to or apologize for what they've done. At least she's done that.


I think you are being very naive.
Do you really think that Marion can just go away quietly?
She is the face of track and field and the press is looking for her to say something! How would it look if she made no comment at all?
Her lawyers, her family, her agent, her manager, her husband, her friends, her dog....everyone is telling her to go out there and apologize. That's what you do when you're a public figure - whether you're Paris Hilton or Sen Larry Craig or Michael Vick. YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE. It is a given. It's spin, it's PR at work, it's damage control. The American public is very forgiving....appeal to them.
Obviously one down, but many more to go.

The truth is that Marion is only sorry now because she's been caught. (why hasn't she apologized before?)
No, she didn't commit murder, but she cheated and tainted an entire sport. And unlike basketball, football, baseball, etc, where there are many heroes, in T&F Marion Jones was THE only hero for young girls to look up to.
She's shafted them as well.
Yes other people lie and cheat, so that makes MJ less guilty or less culpable or somehow it's OK? Come on, are you for real with that arguement?
Her apology is perfunctory. It counts for absolutely nothing !
Take off those rose colored glasses and face the reality that your girl is a fake and has zero courage, integrity, and credibility.
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Postby mrbowie » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:44 pm

Littlemac wrote:
Half Miler wrote:Just watched Marion's apology.

I teared up.

Despite what many/most of you have said, I do think it takes courage to apologize like that. She could have gone away quietly, which would have been easier.

Don't you guys realize how often people lie?

Take a guess and then multiply that by 10.

Like many in (and out of) the sport, Marion lied, and lied again. Of course it's wrong. Of course it tarnishes her achievements. But I'm in agreement with the poster who made the comparison to "having killed someone". There are many more liars out there who will never admit to or apologize for what they've done. At least she's done that.


I think you are being very naive.
Do you really think that Marion can just go away quietly?
She is the face of track and field and the press is looking for her to say something! How would it look if she made no comment at all?
Her lawyers, her family, her agent, her manager, her husband, her friends, her dog....everyone is telling her to go out there and apologize. That's what you do when you're a public figure - whether you're Paris Hilton or Sen Larry Craig or Michael Vick. YOU HAVE TO APOLOGIZE. It is a given. It's spin, it's PR at work, it's damage control. The American public is very forgiving....appeal to them.
Obviously one down, but many more to go.

The truth is that Marion is only sorry now because she's been caught. (why hasn't she apologized before?)
No, she didn't commit murder, but she cheated and tainted an entire sport. And unlike basketball, football, baseball, etc, where there are many heroes, in T&F Marion Jones was THE only hero for young girls to look up to.
She's shafted them as well.
Yes other people lie and cheat, so that makes MJ less guilty or less culpable or somehow it's OK? Come on, are you for real with that arguement?
Her apology is perfunctory. It counts for absolutely nothing !
Take off those rose colored glasses and face the reality that your girl is a fake and has zero courage, integrity, and credibility.


Perfecto.
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Postby mrbowie » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:46 pm

The joke of Marion Jones is if there was ever one person that did not need to cheat it was Marion Jones.

Has there ever been a more gifted track and field prodigy than her in the United States?

I never saw the person if one existed.

She hung around with a bad crowd from the beginning.

Sleep with dog, wind up with fleas.
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:47 pm

Conte says MJ the victim of a corrupt system: http://www.reuters.com/article/sportsNe ... 5920071006
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Postby mrbowie » Fri Oct 05, 2007 6:55 pm

Justin Clouder wrote:Not to defend Jones for a microsecond, however the "burn the witch" tone of much of this thread is very unpleasant. She didn't kill anyone.

Nor can this be chalked up as a victory in anti-doping since she has only been outed via an irrelevant (to track) financial fraud, not any efforts by anti-doping authorities.

There are no winners here, there is no good news, only bad news and losers. IMHO.

Justin


Totally disagree.

This is a victory for the good guys, no matter how it came to its sad conclusion.

Young people will now know what happens to somebody that cheats and lies. This is very positive.

Did it matter that Al Capone was sent to prison for tax evasion? The sob was sent to prison because he was a bad guy. Very instructive.

I feel very sad for all of those runners that ran second to Marion Jones. They were the ones that got cheated.
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Postby JRM » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:18 pm

Mennisco wrote:...It began in '97, when she surged to 10.76 and 21.76 clockings. She never ran faster at sea level in the 200. She improved by 0.06 at sea level in the 100. Am I to believe that she came back and reached what amounted to her career peak [damn close enough to it] in 1997, and only started doping 2 years later? I don't believe it, and anyone who does is living in la-la land.

It is of course possible she was doped without knowing it in '97.


When you blow the cover of a drug addict and start trying to piece things together, they will always fall short of telling you the whole story, while avowing to the death the veracity of their confession. They always keep something up their sleeve.

Be it PEDs or some other hard illicit substance, the motivation is the same. They're doing something they don't want you to find out about, and they want you to leave them alone so they can keep doing it. So, they'll cover it up to the bitter end, even as their world is unraveling around them.
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Postby ozvault » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:49 pm

What I liked about her press conference was her announcement that she is now retiring from Track and Field!
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Postby cacique » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:57 pm

there'll be quite some re-arranging in the medals stand, not just in sydney 2000, a quick look at the tables show that she medaled in the 1997 world champs, all the way to the world cup in 2002...
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Postby JRM » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:23 pm

cacique wrote:there'll be quite some re-arranging in the medals stand, not just in sydney 2000, a quick look at the tables show that she medaled in the 1997 world champs, all the way to the world cup in 2002...


Her admission of guilt only goes back to 1999, so unless I'm missing something, her performances in '97 and '98 can't be stricken.
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Postby 26mi235 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:46 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Kelli White gave the most candid and contrite interview of any doper I've ever seen. I believe that her confession is what actually did her in since, the IAAF didn't actually have the goods to ban her without the confession. She never pretended that she didn't know what she was taking and you actually got the sense that her conscious was tormenting her the whole time she was doping, which probably explains why she didn't dope for very long. With Jones, I get the impression that she only admitted to what was expedient for her legal predicament. I get no sense that she struggled with the decision to dope while she was actually doping.


I seem to recall David Miller doing the confession. I think he said that he actually left the syringes out (and there as investigation into the team in the several days/raiding houses). He said he just did not like the feeling of having won the Worlds (ITT) by cheating. He has done OK since but not great.
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Postby Friar » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:59 pm

This was from one of her defenders.http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/06/sports/othersports/06rhoden.html?ref=sports
If Jones is serious about redemption, her first order of business should be returning the pieces of gold without being asked. This is harsh, I know, but she should remember that the pursuit of gold tempted her to run a race that she couldn’t win.

I have the feeling Marion is going to have trouble turning in the Gold. Maybe a nebulous statement like 'I've been assured they are in a safe place but I'm not aware of their location', will suffice.
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Postby tjallen » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:02 pm

She minimized the time period even more in her court plea. She says now she was on the clear ONLY from September 2000 to July 2001.

This will minimize the loss of other medals and money, which the IAAF was threatening to sue for.

tja
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Postby tjallen » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:04 pm

I've been wondering about this business of drops under the tongue. Yes, nitro for the heart, and a few other meds are given this way, but it is not common at all. Some medicines are dispensed in chewing gum, and coke users do gummers sometimes. But in general, absorption in the mouth is not a common way to give steroids, so far as I've ever heard.

On the other hand, we know the clear came in a syringe, or at least that's the form it was sent by VC to the authorities. I wonder if she was instead injecting under the tongue. I've heard heroin users inject there to hide the tracks (until those vessels collapse), then move on to places like between the toes. Hmmm. Most of the injected steroids I've ever heard of were injected into muscle mass, though, not directly into the bloodstream.

This whole "under the tongue" thing sounds weird, and I wonder if our docs might comment on it.

tja
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Postby Law dude » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:39 pm

JRM wrote:
cacique wrote:there'll be quite some re-arranging in the medals stand, not just in sydney 2000, a quick look at the tables show that she medaled in the 1997 world champs, all the way to the world cup in 2002...

Her admission of guilt only goes back to 1999, so unless I'm missing something, her performances in '97 and '98 can't be stricken.

Nor can her 1999 performances. The IAAF statute of limitations on admissions is 8 years.
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Postby Law dude » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:47 pm

malmo wrote:
eldrick wrote:someone kindly tell me why she has admitted to anything ?

Remember she was involved in a whole host of crimes, including the bank fraud thing. The Feds had the responsibility to determine her part in that crime, if any.

My guess she gets a 6 month minimum security gig in the federal pen and probation.

And my guess is that you're in the right ballpark. From what we've all read, it looks as if they had her cold on that check business. That could have been a serious sentence for money laundering, bank fraud, or something similar.

So they scare the shit out of her, offer her a very light fall in return for fessing up to doping and pointing the finger at Graham. I don't even know if she'll do real prison time. In her case, it hardly matters. She's been punished.
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Postby eldrick » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:12 am

tjallen wrote:I've been wondering about this business of drops under the tongue. Yes, nitro for the heart, and a few other meds are given this way, but it is not common at all. Some medicines are dispensed in chewing gum, and coke users do gummers sometimes. But in general, absorption in the mouth is not a common way to give steroids, so far as I've ever heard.

On the other hand, we know the clear came in a syringe, or at least that's the form it was sent by VC to the authorities. I wonder if she was instead injecting under the tongue. I've heard heroin users inject there to hide the tracks (until those vessels collapse), then move on to places like between the toes. Hmmm. Most of the injected steroids I've ever heard of were injected into muscle mass, though, not directly into the bloodstream.

This whole "under the tongue" thing sounds weird, and I wonder if our docs might comment on it.

tja


plenty of drugs are administered sub-lingually

the rational is that this route by-passes the liver & therefore doesn't get metabolised by it, as soon

some drugs are metabolised 95%+ by the liver when swallowed directly - this route may only get 20 or 30% metabolised

it's in effect to "preserve" the drug in the system
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Postby oldvaulter » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:20 am

I find myself very discouraged by track becoming a sport where we can't count on the results of an event until after more than eight years. It's easy to understand the logic of changing past results based on new revelations, but it leaves us with a situation in which, after the race is run, we can only say that we know the winner "for now", pending revelations that could come many years hence.

Rewriting the past based on what we come to know later is a potentially endless process which undermines the enjoyment of competition in the present. I'm not suggesting that past results therefore not be changed, only that we're in a situation now that robs us of one of our most fundamental enjoyments of the sport -- the decisiveness of competition, putting it all on the line when the gun goes off, the winner is the one who gets to the finish line first. Losing this is a very big loss.
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Postby mump boy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:41 am

if she's admitting to use in 2001 then there are some rather unfortunate medallists !!!

in 100 thanou moves up to silver and MJ training partner gets chandra stirrup gets bronze. thanou has served a ban and it's best i don;t comment on block who won the race but say they are taken out the equation we move to chrste gains in 5 to medal !!!

in the 200 debbie feguson is now WC :D but kelli white moves up to silver (has this already been takena way ??) and latasha jenkins gets bronze !!!!

3 of the top 4 (All USA) are convicted or have admitted drug use !!!
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Postby tjallen » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:35 am

eldrick wrote:
plenty of drugs are administered sub-lingually
the rational is that this route by-passes the liver


Thanks eldrick. It makes some more sense to me now.
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Postby nevetsllim » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:45 am

mump boy wrote:if she's admitting to use in 2001 then there are some rather unfortunate medallists !!!

in 100 thanou moves up to silver and MJ training partner gets chandra stirrup gets bronze. thanou has served a ban and it's best i don;t comment on block who won the race but say they are taken out the equation we move to chrste gains in 5 to medal !!!

in the 200 debbie feguson is now WC :D but kelli white moves up to silver (has this already been takena way ??) and latasha jenkins gets bronze !!!!

3 of the top 4 (All USA) are convicted or have admitted drug use !!!


White has been DSQ'ed anyway. It would mean Cydonie Mothersill would have got the bronze medal.

Also, it would be that Pauline Davis should become double Olympic champion in her fifth Olympics! Bahamas would have a double gold with Ferguson 'winning' in 2001.
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Postby thunder » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:50 am

26mi235 wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:Kelli White gave the most candid and contrite interview of any doper I've ever seen. I believe that her confession is what actually did her in since, the IAAF didn't actually have the goods to ban her without the confession. She never pretended that she didn't know what she was taking and you actually got the sense that her conscious was tormenting her the whole time she was doping, which probably explains why she didn't dope for very long. With Jones, I get the impression that she only admitted to what was expedient for her legal predicament. I get no sense that she struggled with the decision to dope while she was actually doping.


I seem to recall David Miller doing the confession. I think he said that he actually left the syringes out (and there as investigation into the team in the several days/raiding houses). He said he just did not like the feeling of having won the Worlds (ITT) by cheating. He has done OK since but not great.


Millar did not tell all. He went from beating Armstrong in a Tour tt, in his debut, and winning worlds, to 19th in the worlds tt this year. Vast difference. He won a tt last year in the Vuelta after coming back. I give him benefit of doubt now, because as one of the most talented (doped) tters, there is no way he could ride 19th with artificial aid. (sorry for hijacking)
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Postby Flumpy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:38 am

optimistic wrote:But without those......you're......losing.......me........


Well that's hardly a big loss :roll:
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Postby liuxuan » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:43 am

i just wanna say im so glad that marion didnt cause foina may to gt a lesser medal in 99 or 2000! go fiona, pauline and merlene!
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Postby Matt » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:44 am

liuxuan wrote:i just wanna say im so glad that marion didnt cause foina may to gt a lesser medal in 99 or 2000! go fiona, pauline and merlene!


The irony!
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Postby Flumpy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:47 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Kelli White gave the most candid and contrite interview of any doper I've ever seen. I believe that her confession is what actually did her in since, the IAAF didn't actually have the goods to ban her without the confession. She never pretended that she didn't know what she was taking and you actually got the sense that her conscious was tormenting her the whole time she was doping, which probably explains why she didn't dope for very long. With Jones, I get the impression that she only admitted to what was expedient for her legal predicament. I get no sense that she struggled with the decision to dope while she was actually doping.


Completely agree. I actually have some respect for Kelli (And Dwaine) who confessed to far more than they needed to and blamed nobody but themselves. They seemed genuinely sorry and apologetic when they could very easily have just continued denying everything like most cheats do.

Marion on the other hand has admitted the very minimum having been forced to by the courts. Truly pathetic woman who's sorry arsed coursteps statement made me cringe. Was it just me or did she not actually mention drug use one?

I can't believe some people are feeling sorry for her :roll:
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Postby EPelle » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:50 am

Good afternoon, everyone,

I am Marion Jones-Thompson, and I am here today, because I have something very important to tell you, my fans, my friends and my family.

Over the many years of my life, as an athlete in the sport of track and field, you have been fiercely loyal and supportive towards me. Even more loyal and supportive than words can declare has been my family – and especially my dear mother who stands by my side today.

And so it is with a great amount of shame that I stand before you and tell you that I have betrayed your trust.

I want all of you to know that today I plead guilty to two counts of making false statements to federal agents. Making false statements to these agents was an incredibly stupid thing for me to do, and I am responsible fully for my actions. I have no one to blame but myself for what I have done.

To you, my fans – including my young supporters, the United States Track & Field Association, my closest friends, my attorneys, and the most-classy family a person could ever hope for, namely my mother, my husband, my children, my brother and his family, my uncle, and the rest of my extended family – I want you to know that I have been dishonest. And you have the right to be angry with me. I have let them down, I have let my country down, and I have let myself down.

I recognise that by saying ‘I am deeply sorry’, it might not be enough and sufficient to address the pain and the hurt that I have caused you. Therefore, I want to ask for your forgiveness for my actions, and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

I have asked Almighty God for my forgiveness.

Having said this, and because of my actions, I am retiring from the sport of track and field – a sport which I deeply love.

I promise that these events will be used to make the lives of many people improved – that by making the wrong choices and bad decisions can be disastrous.

I want to thank you all for your time.

transcribed.
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Postby Flumpy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:58 am

Matt wrote:Only this week I have read dozens of posts from people eulogising a 'great' athlete who was known for years within US track and field circles as having been a steroid user (and for suffering from the ensuing health problems). There are very few 'amazing' performances that are not drug assisted......


Interesting, But in his time they weren't illegal, where they?

When did PED actually become banned?
Flumpy
 
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Postby Flumpy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:59 am

Matt wrote:The irony!


Irony :?: :?: :?:
Flumpy
 
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Postby Jaack » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:05 am

Jaack wrote:
At 34, the oldest sprint champion in the history of the sport(?)! Pauline Davis Thompson- What a legend.
Anyone care to verify this?
Jaack
 
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