Marion to plead guilty to doping!


This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; it's back to being locked.

Postby tafnut » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:44 am

marknhj wrote:To the general public, and even regular sports fan here, I think the story will be effectively dead by Monday, in the context of what they already think about T&F.

I wish. Joe Public may have thought that, but the bulldog press is gonna bite on this and chew it for a LONG time, which keeps it the public eye and turns them AGAINST us, rather than the apathy we currently 'enjoy'.
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Illuminati script - new limits: Timothy McVeigh 2001 + Kosta

Postby MattMarriott » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:44 am

Illuminati script - new limits: Timothy McVeigh 2001 + Kostas Kenteris 2004 + Jan Ullrich 2006 = Marion Jones 2007

Matt Marriott explained how the illuminati had no problems upscaling their terror agenda, by gradually introducing these BIG LIE techniques as proof:
- the "defense lawyer" (1);
- manufactured evidence (2);
- hearsay (3).
Now by having the "Marion Jones concedes doping" headlines today all over illuminatiland, they upscale the terror agenda yet one more time. To the ultimate limits: their media falsely reports that a public personality, who is NOT in prison, admits to be guilty.

Notes

(1) The "Defense Lawyer" technique was first used with the innocent who was falsely accused of the Oklahona city bombings. It consists of having the "defense" lawyer falsely stating that his "client" admits to be guilty. This technique was planned to be used with Milisevic in the Hague "Court". But it did not work as planned, since Milosevic had the possibility to communicate to the public that he did not accept the "defense" lawyer the "court" assigned to him.

(2) "Manufactured evidence" is the technique used again and again to falsely accuse the best athletes of mesurable natural sports (athletics, cycling) in the world that they dope, with faked "tests" in the illuminati laboratories. In 2004, 5he physical attack against Kostas Kenteris, supervised by IOC President Rogge, was a first upscaling of this technique. It was planned to suggest that the Greek sprinter was trying to create an alibi to escape doping tests. Besides that it was a way to physically get him out of the scene, which was precisely the Olympics 2004 at his own country, Greece, so that people did not wonder why he was not being given the word to tell his story in the media.

(3) "Hearsay" as proof was first used in the hours before the beginning of the Tour de France 2006. Not because it was required to eliminate the two best cyclists at the start, Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso, since the illuminati control the laboratories that do the Tour tests. The reason why the Hearsay technique was used was to upscale the terror agenda.
In the Tour de France 2007, this technique was upscaled again, using the danish cyclist Rasmussen, who was eliminated as he leading and it was clear he would win, based on a statement of an italian journalist who played the role of having "seen" him in Italy at a time where Rasmussen declared that he was in Mexico.
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Re: Illuminati script - new limits: Timothy McVeigh 2001 + K

Postby Daisy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:48 am

MattMarriott wrote:Illuminati script - new limits: Timothy McVeigh 2001 + Kostas Kenteris 2004 + Jan Ullrich 2006 = Marion Jones 2007


Don't the illuminati have bigger fish to fry?
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Re: Illuminati script - new limits: Timothy McVeigh 2001 + K

Postby CookyMonzta » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:50 am

MattMarriott wrote:Illuminati script - new limits: Timothy McVeigh 2001 + Kostas Kenteris 2004 + Jan Ullrich 2006 = Marion Jones 2007

Matt Marriott explained how the illuminati had no problems upscaling their terror agenda, by gradually introducing these BIG LIE techniques as proof:
- the "defense lawyer" (1);
- manufactured evidence (2);
- hearsay (3).
Now by having the "Marion Jones concedes doping" headlines today all over illuminatiland, they upscale the terror agenda yet one more time. To the ultimate limits: their media falsely reports that a public personality, who is NOT in prison, admits to be guilty.

Notes

(1) The "Defense Lawyer" technique was first used with the innocent who was falsely accused of the Oklahona city bombings. It consists of having the "defense" lawyer falsely stating that his "client" admits to be guilty. This technique was planned to be used with Milisevic in the Hague "Court". But it did not work as planned, since Milosevic had the possibility to communicate to the public that he did not accept the "defense" lawyer the "court" assigned to him.

(2) "Manufactured evidence" is the technique used again and again to falsely accuse the best athletes of mesurable natural sports (athletics, cycling) in the world that they dope, with faked "tests" in the illuminati laboratories. In 2004, 5he physical attack against Kostas Kenteris, supervised by IOC President Rogge, was a first upscaling of this technique. It was planned to suggest that the Greek sprinter was trying to create an alibi to escape doping tests. Besides that it was a way to physically get him out of the scene, which was precisely the Olympics 2004 at his own country, Greece, so that people did not wonder why he was not being given the word to tell his story in the media.

(3) "Hearsay" as proof was first used in the hours before the beginning of the Tour de France 2006. Not because it was required to eliminate the two best cyclists at the start, Jan Ullrich and Ivan Basso, since the illuminati control the laboratories that do the Tour tests. The reason why the Hearsay technique was used was to upscale the terror agenda.
In the Tour de France 2007, this technique was upscaled again, using the danish cyclist Rasmussen, who was eliminated as he leading and it was clear he would win, based on a statement of an italian journalist who played the role of having "seen" him in Italy at a time where Rasmussen declared that he was in Mexico.

You might wanrt to go one better:
McVeigh 2001+Kenteris 2004+Ullrich 2006+Jones 2007=Barry Bonds 2008! What I've been hearing, from the news, is that Marion's confession may be a pretext for the Bonds case. That one is likely to overshadow them all.

There may be one that may overshadow even Barry's case, and it involves former Diamondbacks pitcher Jason Grimsley, who turned over a long list of names to the feds. If there are some Hall-of-Fame-worthy names on that list, we'll never hear the end of it.
Last edited by CookyMonzta on Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:51 am

If a high school prodigy like Marion Jones, who seemingly had no qualms about taking PED's, couldn't come within 0.2s and 0.4s of 10.49 and 21.34 at sea-level respectively, then what chance does a clean athlete have of breaking these records regardless of talent?
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Flumpy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:53 am

Justin Clouder wrote:
Engqvist did get off, I believe, because she was able to prove that her ex-husband had spiked her food (IIRC).

Justin


Don't know the full story but i think her ex husband came forward and said that he had spiked her because she was leaving him. This was obviously bollocks but it allowed her to get of the drug rap.
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Re: Illuminati script - new limits: Timothy McVeigh 2001 + K

Postby CookyMonzta » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:59 am

Daisy wrote:Don't the illuminati have bigger fish to fry?

Funny you should use the phrase "bigger fish". If this had happened in 2003 or 2004, Marion would surely have been THE biggest fish. Notice that even she's had to share the spotlight with Britney, Barry, Hillary, Barack, Rudy, Fred, Myanmar, the baseball playoffs and the UEFA Championships? She's barely a footnote now.
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:01 am

tafnut wrote:. . . but the bulldog press is gonna bite on this and chew it for a LONG time, which keeps it the public eye and turns them AGAINST us, rather than the apathy we currently 'enjoy'.

Not a chance. There is no new story here. The BALCO story, including all of the MJ and Barry Bonds stuff, was in 2003/2004 and is DONE. All that is going on now is that the feds are sticking a fork in it by crossing the tees and dotting the eyes on some perjury issues.

She'll be briefly back in the news (not major headlines) when the IAAF takes her medals and hands one to another drug cheat, and again when the perjury sentence is announced, she goes to jail and gets out of jail.
Last edited by bad hammy on Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DrJay » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:02 am

Is mental illness some sort of protection against having unintelligible rants, full of unfounded and bizarre accusations, deleted by the TAFNEWS sheriff du jour, or against simply being booted from the Board? I mean, it's kind of entertaining, to a point, but aren't we past that point?
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:05 am

Dr. Jay,

You lost me. Your post almost falls into the unintelligible rant category . . .
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:05 am

Justin Clouder wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Justin Clouder wrote:This wouldn't anyone involved in BALCO, of course, though it would give Jones a chance to argue in court that she had no knowledge of being doped - given the requirement of proof beyond reasonable doubt in court, it's possible she would get off whereas under T&F rules she's toast.

Careful what you wish for!

Justin

I thought that ignorance was no defense for violating a law, or at least that's what I've heard. By the way, didn't Ludmila Engquist successfully use the ignorance defense to beat the T&F rules?

Ignorance OF the law is no excuse, but should PED use become a crime, it would follow that an athlete could not be convicted of anything if they had no knowledge of being doped - which is what MJ claims. Should she be able to convince a jury that she was an innocent victim of Trevor Graham's actions, she might get off. Whereas she's got no chance under T&F's no-fault liability rule.

Engqvist did get off, I believe, because she was able to prove that her ex-husband had spiked her food (IIRC). The difference is that she had to prove this and was held guilty until she did, whereas in a criminal court the authorities would have to prove that MJ knew what she was taking (depending how the law was framed of course) and until they did, she'd be innocent.

I guess my point is that the effect of making PED use a criminal offence is double-edged. While some egregious cases would get jail time, the threshold of proof required for conviction may well be much higher than the current sporting rules, resulting in more people getting off.

Justin

I believe the current federal laws allow the government to sieze your personal property if they find drugs in it, regardless of whether you knew it was there or not. They put the burden of proof on you. I've read and heard about dozens of cases where people had their homes or cars seized because a child or relative were storing drugs in them without the knowledge of the owner. Also, we already have federal laws that make it illegal for a player to point-shave in the ball sports. There may even be laws banning the administering of PED's to race horses, but somebody else more knowledgeable about that sport will have to weigh in on this one.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:06 am

DrJay wrote:Is mental illness some sort of protection against having unintelligible rants, full of unfounded and bizarre accusations, deleted by the TAFNEWS sheriff du jour, or against simply being booted from the Board? I mean, it's kind of entertaining, to a point, but aren't we past that point?


Are you referring to Matt or Tafnut? :P
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:08 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
DrJay wrote:Is mental illness some sort of protection against having unintelligible rants, full of unfounded and bizarre accusations, deleted by the TAFNEWS sheriff du jour, or against simply being booted from the Board? I mean, it's kind of entertaining, to a point, but aren't we past that point?


Are you referring to Matt or Tafnut? :P

Oh, OK now I get it. You're right - tafnut should have been permanently banned about 24,000 posts ago . . .
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Postby EPelle » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:09 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I thought that ignorance was no defense for violating a law, or at least that's what I've heard. By the way, didn't Ludmila Engquist successfully use the ignorance defense to beat the T&F rules?

Under a former name, yes (sabotage). Under Swedish name, no. She wanted to commit suicide after being discovered to be a cheat. Crime doesn:t pay in this country. She split and moved far, far away.
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Postby EPelle » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:12 am

jazzcyclist wrote:If a high school prodigy like Marion Jones, who seemingly had no qualms about taking PED's, couldn't come within 0.2s and 0.4s of 10.49 and 21.34 at see-level respectively, then what chance does a clean athlete have of breaking these records regardless of talent?

A midget, who is under see-level, just might. Same with a very tall person who is over the see-level. Perhaps Vlasic should change events.
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Postby tafnut » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:25 am

EPelle wrote:A midget, who is under see-level, just might. Same with a very tall person who is over the see-level. Perhaps Vlasic should change events.

How did DaveW get EPelle's log-in and why is bad hammy allowed to be breathing OUR oxygen??!! :twisted:
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Postby DrJay » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:36 am

S'pose I should be constructive and comment about the subject of the thread. Baseball's and football's and basketball's scandals certainly have contributed to my relative lack of interest in those sports. Yeah, it'd be fun to see the Cubbies or our Colorado Rockies win the World Series but amidst the growing Rockies hysteria all around me, I can't even name a player on their roster. For the person who might have a passing interest in T&F, this sort of scandal will do the same. (As an aside, I was sitting in the docs lounge this a.m. after rounds and talking with a couple of other docs about going to big sporting events. One of them had taken his family to the Atlanta OG and he mentioned in a bored tone a few of the sports they saw, "...a couple of baseball games, some track events...." then perked up a good bit and said "But we did get to see some volleyball, but none of the other sexy sports like diving," so track was in his put-you-to-sleep category.)

The more I think about it, I'm at least as bothered by MJ's sanctimonious proclamations of innocence while, like with a dead skunk in the road, things stunk for miles around. Everyone makes mistakes and bad choices in their lives, but it's hard to have any sympathy for people like her that lie and lie and lie for years about it, especially when her drug use kept others off the medal podium. Or the US team. They can't go back and give the 4th place finishers at the 2000 US Olympic Trials the chance to compete in the Sydney Games. She cheated them out of that opportunity.
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Postby Jaack » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:37 am

Flumpy wrote:
Track fan wrote:I guess Ottey is now a bronze queen


I think you'll find she'll at last have her GOLD :mrgreen:

Relay silver in '00

I have a only one thing to say to Marion "Don't touch me!!!" stupid drug cheating bint.

The Bahamas beat them for the Gold not USA>

WHen I heard this on my way to work I was so DELIGHTED!

Pauline-Davis Thompson The OLYMPIC champion! WOo freakin hooooo

Bev McDonald gets that Olympic Medal she deserves too!


To be honest, Marion won by so much in 2000 I'm sure she could have done it clean! I'm happy to see she owned up, it's very classy (even if it is a little late).

Would love to see some room made in the programme next year for some extra medal ceremonies for all of those people who have become Olympic champions AFTER the Olympic games!! There are quite a few of them. Koji, Pauline * cough* Thanou....Damn, so close to a perfect ending!
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Postby DrJay » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:37 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
DrJay wrote:Is mental illness some sort of protection against having unintelligible rants, full of unfounded and bizarre accusations, deleted by the TAFNEWS sheriff du jour, or against simply being booted from the Board? I mean, it's kind of entertaining, to a point, but aren't we past that point?


Are you referring to Matt or Tafnut? :P


Er, uhh...I kinda had you in mind, squack. :wink:
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Postby mump boy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:55 am

jazzcyclist wrote:If a high school prodigy like Marion Jones, who seemingly had no qualms about taking PED's, couldn't come within 0.2s and 0.4s of 10.49 and 21.34 at see-level respectively, then what chance does a clean athlete have of breaking these records regardless of talent?


itmakes me wonder what the F**k flo jo was on :?: :?: :!: :?: :!:
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:03 pm

EPelle wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:If a high school prodigy like Marion Jones, who seemingly had no qualms about taking PED's, couldn't come within 0.2s and 0.4s of 10.49 and 21.34 at see-level respectively, then what chance does a clean athlete have of breaking these records regardless of talent?

A midget, who is under see-level, just might. Same with a very tall person who is over the see-level. Perhaps Vlasic should change events.

Alright smart-alec :oops: , I've made the correction. :)
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Postby EPelle » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:03 pm

Needed a laugh. Thanks. :P
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Postby MJD » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:14 pm

It's funny. I really could care less about all of this because there is no news here.
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Jones, Expected to Plead Guilty, Reports to Courthouse

Postby bhall » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:15 pm

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Postby Jaack » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:23 pm

Pauline Davis Thompson is the Olympic champion!!!

That should be made into a film. Attended 5 Olympic games, had a whole dramatic and entertaining past, from poverty to sports bra's, to big butts- (she's hilarious). Took her a good ten years to get on a podium. By 1995 she was world silver medalist over 400m. Then at the 1996 olympics in the fastest 400m race of all time (6 women under 50 seconds) she missed a medal and finished 4th! Distraught, she bounced back to anchor the Bahamas to a silver medal and celebreated by dragging her team mate to the floor, and wrapping her legs around her like some sort of koala bear!

Thinking this was her last olympics (at the age of 30) she returned home satisified but a little disappointed. She stuck with the sport and turned the Bahamas mama's into a World force- By 1999 they were World champions in the relay and she herself was a world indoor bronze medalist in a new "main" event for her, the 200m.

She arrived at Sydney at the age of 34, dropping from the 400m to the 200m - she took. 2 off her PB of 8 years, then another to place second in the final BEHIND MJ!

The Bahanmas ran a glorious race in the relay with Pauline on the third leg, and WON the gold. They celebrated in such a wonderful manner.

7 years later, Pauline discovers Jones was a drugs cheat and discovers she will become the Olympic champion in an individual event!

At 34, the oldest sprint champion in the history of the sport(?)! Pauline Davis Thompson- What a legend.
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Postby polevaultpower » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:33 pm

I thought this was one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read (and said as much in a letter to the editor)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 49,00.html


Compared to track and field, baseball's steroid struggles seem bush league.


:shock:
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:02 pm

[Edited by Admin]

Let's be sane folks. Wholesale statements of guilt won't be tolerated. I'm starting to ban moving forward.
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Postby eman » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:04 pm

polevaultpower wrote:I thought this was one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read (and said as much in a letter to the editor)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 49,00.html


Compared to track and field, baseball's steroid struggles seem bush league.


:shock:


Why would you say it is a dumb quote. In all fairness at this moment you are only talking about a handful of players who have done PED's in baseball in a sport that turned a winking eye to the practice. The PED dilema in track and field has been going on since there were PED's. Every sprint record can be openly questioned and when track and field was at its zenith of popularity Ben Johnson was stripped of his gold medal in front of billions of viewers. Yes the Barry Bonds media hype has made it seem that the situation in baseball is central to its core but in reality not the made up one on American television it is not.
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Postby optimistic » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:08 pm

Hello,

(slightly more than) Casual fan here (as you can tell by my #posts since 2005). I just want to say as a casual fan, I don't regret having seen Lewis vs Ben, Marion vs Inger, or Flo Jo vs E Germans vs Ashford.

I guess if you ask me would I rather watch the above mentioned or Campbell vs Williams or any of the other match ups out there (except Gay vs Powell), I'd take the drug bunch anytime.

Will you guys start a campaign to get Felix to run the 200/400 double next year?The sport really needs Richards - Felix. And send a request to the track Gods that Richards gets that illness under control. You can use those two gals with Gay, Powell, Spearman, and Bolt to really market the sport.

But without those......you're......losing.......me........
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Postby donley2 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:23 pm

As someone who was reasonably active in the discussions from 4 years ago I guess I will put my two cents worth in. I am glad that at least a small piece of the truth is being officially put in place with this perjury plea. I remember having a discussion with friends at work 4 years ago and saying that the Balco grand jury was putting Marion in between a serious rock and a hard place. Tell the truth and it will almost certainly be leaked by someone. Lie and risk perjury. I guessed at the time she would choose the later. I place a very small amount of trust in her current story. I doubt the complete truth will ever come out unless she writes some tell all book. I certainly don't think its good for the sport, but I think it could help a few more folks on the fence potentially choose to try to compete at the top level of the sport without PED's. Twenty five years ago when I started following the sport I was a complete numbers/records nut. I have slowly become disenchanted with the current set of all-time lists. They hold much much less interest to me than they did 25 years ago.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:39 pm

If I broke the rules, I apologize, that's not my intention. But I have to ask, since I didn't name anyone or even implicate anyone, what was my offense? I thought that by using the words "most" and "percentage", I kept myself within the rules.
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Postby bhall » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:43 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:If I broke the rules, I apologize, that's not my intention. But I have to ask, since I didn't name anyone or even implicate anyone, what was my offense? I thought that by using the words "most" and "percentage", I kept myself within the rules.


Your statement basically implicated anyone capable of reaching a certain level of performance.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:02 pm

bhall wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:If I broke the rules, I apologize, that's not my intention. But I have to ask, since I didn't name anyone or even implicate anyone, what was my offense? I thought that by using the words "most" and "percentage", I kept myself within the rules.


Your statement basically implicated anyone capable of reaching a certain level of performance.

Not anyone capable, but "some of the ones capable" is the message I was trying to convey. I thought I had chosen my words carefully, but evidently not. Nevertheless, you're the boss and I'll try to be more vague from now on.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:09 pm

So it seems as though Marion may just be a pawn in the G-men's effort to get Barry Bonds based on what ESPN is reporting. They don't care about Olympic medals and World Championships. It's the home run record that must be protected.
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Postby Littlemac » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:10 pm

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Postby twittering debutante » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:12 pm

tafnut wrote:As a long-time Marion-defender (I, did, however give up on her after the EPO thing), I am extremely disappointed in this turn of events. I was TOTALLY fooled by her book, wherein she categorically

IN BOLD RED PRINT (oh, the ignominy :? )

denied PED-using. Even if she says she didn't know it was 'The Clear', the fact that Graham said 'don't tell anyone' should have been the deal-breaker.

I would like to apologize to EVERYONE on this board for my staunch support of her. There's no fool like an old fool, and I'm feeling very old now. :oops:


cool, thanks
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Postby tafnut » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:30 pm

twittering debutante wrote:cool, thanks

TwitDeb, long time no see, where ya been, bro?
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Postby EPelle » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:38 pm

(full moon). 8)
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Postby Walt Murphy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:12 pm

NBC opened its 6:30 and 7:00 news shows with Marion's press conference and both had reports originating from the Armory in NY City featuring Derrick Adkins, who is charge of the T&F program there.
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:16 pm

jazz cyclist wrote:So it seems as though Marion may just be a pawn in the G-men's effort to get Barry Bonds based on what ESPN is reporting. They don't care about Olympic medals and World Championships. It's the home run record that must be protected.

The book Game of Shadows makes it plain that the whole focus of the feds has been Barry Bonds and everyone else (including Conte) have just been peripheral collateral damage.
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