Eldrick still in denial or just babbling.on page 3 of this thread. What an unsavoury picture.
Eldrick, forget the lawyer crap and concentrate on the essentials. MJ was a dysfunctional person who thought cheating would benefit her, if she lied consistently and well and used the vaunted system of ''justice'' over the pond .
tafnut wrote:As a long-time Marion-defender (I, did, however give up on her after the EPO thing), I am extremely disappointed in this turn of events. I was TOTALLY fooled by her book, wherein she categorically
IN BOLD RED PRINT (oh, the ignominy )
denied PED-using. Even if she says she didn't know it was 'The Clear', the fact that Graham said 'don't tell anyone' should have been the deal-breaker.
I would like to apologize to EVERYONE on this board for my staunch support of her. There's no fool like an old fool, and I'm feeling very old now.
You should. Are you defending Flo-Jo blindly as well?
Being American has nothing to do with it. I am not American, but I supported her up until today. My reasoning was the same as Tafnut's- "She had so much potential in High School. If there was one person who could have done it without the aid of PEDs, it was her." I am heart broken today. I guess, all the evidence was there, but I just did not want to see it. It was MARION afterall!!!'
Jacksf wrote:You guys are being wimps! Marion is/was a cheat, a liar, a phony, and a coward. We should all be glad when criminals are caught, when cheats are busted, when undeserved rewards are taken back and given to the deserving, when wrongs are righted. And by the way, Marion has shown no courage at all. She has denied these allegations for years and years; she threatened libel suits, she divorced CJ when he got caught, she dropped Tim Montgomery like a hot potato when he got caught. If she's admitting to something now, it's because they've got her between a rock and a hard place. And she only has herself to blame!!! Was there any sprinter more talented?! Athletically, she didn't need to do this, but still she chose the crooked path of deception, cheating, lying. Why? Selfish Ego. The media built her up like a mythical hero, and she ate it up. She was put on the 4 x 400 relay at Sydney, even though she wasn't a 400m runner, just to satisfy her ego and satisfy the media. Meanwhile, some athlete who trained in that event for years got left on the sidelines so Marion could get even more glory, more limelight, more medals. And now we know it was all a farce. It was unfair to the other athletes, to the sport, and to the fans. So why feel sorry for her?!
As for the good of the sport....nobody in America cares about T&F!, except the people on this board. And I am very happy, we should all be happy, to get rid of as many cheats and expunge as many phony records as possible. Otherwise you are wishing for a sport full of Ben Johnsons, FloJos, and Barry Bonds.
p.s. My 1000th post! Couldn't be happier about the topic on which I reached that milestone!
Well said. I agree with every word.
Especially unfair on the 4x4 squad who may very well lose their medals now.
Jacksf wrote:You guys are being wimps! Marion is/was a cheat, a liar, a phony, and a coward. We should all be glad when criminals are caught, when cheats are busted, when undeserved rewards are taken back and given to the deserving, when wrongs are righted. And by the way, Marion has shown no courage at all. She has denied these allegations for years and years; she threatened libel suits, she divorced CJ when he got caught, she dropped Tim Montgomery like a hot potato when he got caught. If she's admitting to something now, it's because they've got her between a rock and a hard place. And she only has herself to blame!!! Was there any sprinter more talented?! Athletically, she didn't need to do this, but still she chose the crooked path of deception, cheating, lying. Why? Selfish Ego. The media built her up like a mythical hero, and she ate it up. She was put on the 4 x 400 relay at Sydney, even though she wasn't a 400m runner, just to satisfy her ego and satisfy the media. Meanwhile, some athlete who trained in that event for years got left on the sidelines so Marion could get even more glory, more limelight, more medals. And now we know it was all a farce. It was unfair to the other athletes, to the sport, and to the fans. So why feel sorry for her?!
As for the good of the sport....nobody in America cares about T&F!, except the people on this board. And I am very happy, we should all be happy, to get rid of as many cheats and expunge as many phony records as possible. Otherwise you are wishing for a sport full of Ben Johnsons, FloJos, and Barry Bonds.
p.s. My 1000th post! Couldn't be happier about the topic on which I reached that milestone!
Well said. I agree with every word.
Especially unfair on the 4x4 squad who may very well lose their medals now.
Big deal. Of course she took drugs. Any female who runs under 11 is probably on something. I couldn't care less.
I don't see it as drugs - I just see it as someone trying to maximise their potential and she certainly did that. I enjoy the sport and I love Marion just like I love Flojo (I named my dog after her!). They both ran fast. That's what I like.
If you ever thought for one minute she ran those times without taking everything that could possibly help her recover, get strong, deal with injuries, you were and are still kidding yourselves.
And of course she says in her book she never took drugs - WHAT THE HELL DO THINK SHE IS GOING TO SAY. JESUS!
You guys who are so traumatised by this - get over yourselves. I feel sorry for you. I'm still enjoying the sport, but will enjoy it more when they cut this crap and let athletes do what they want - because guess what - they have done, are doing and will continue to do. Like I said before - gene doping will make this stuff look like taking glucose tablets.. Hang on - are they banned - they help you recover!!??
4x400
Jamaica 3:23:25
Rusia 3:23:46
Nigeria 3:23:80
An athlete under investigation for missed tests gets a gold, Ottey gets another bronze, Ogunkoya gets another 4x4 medal and Kotova also gets one to add to her bronze in Athens, meaning she medals in every global champs from 2000 to 2007.
It's great news another cheat has been uncovered. Only those with rose tinted glasses failed to see her guilt. The only shame is there are still many winning gold medals who are also cheats and are linked to dubious coaches with previous suspect records.
What this tells me more and more is that for a woman to run comfortably under 11.0 and 22.0 she must be doing something, let's say, interesting, in training. A big stride like Jackson or Drechsler may help; a nice mini gale like with Arron's 10.73 might help; smooth style with no sideways movement like Felix might help; the grit and determination of Ashford might help; a rivalry like Ottey/Devers/Torrance/Privalova might help; but at the end of the day you need a certain amount of power that it seems only certain pills can help you with.
Question: Do posters on here seriously think Graham was doing something different to other big name sprint coaches?
paddyb wrote:Big deal. Of course she took drugs. Any female who runs under 11 is probably on something. I couldn't care less. I don't see it as drugs - I just see it as someone trying to maximise their potential and she certainly did that. I enjoy the sport and I love Marion just like I love Flojo (I named my dog after her!). They both ran fast. That's what I like.
You guys who are so traumatised by this - get over yourselves. I feel sorry for you. I'm still enjoying the sport, but will enjoy it more when they cut this crap and let athletes do what they want - because guess what - they have done, are doing and will continue to do. Like I said before - gene doping will make this stuff look like taking glucose tablets.. Hang on - are they banned - they help you recover!!??
You and I could not be more diametrically opposed.
A couple of things that have been said on this thread but get lost in mix of people saying I told you so and the fans who are in obvious shock, so much so that they still defend Marion even though she has basically said why bother.
If you persecute Thannou for missing a scheduled drug test than wouldn't the same rules apply for the 16 year old Marion who also missed a scheduled drug test.
Also Marion was a basketball star in high school so much so that she went to North Carolina to play basketball even though she almost made the Olympic team in the 200. It wasn't until her basketball career was over that she rededicated herself back to track.
Lamenting the fact that someone used PED's to achieve glory saying that they could've done it on NATURAL ABILITY alone is just being NAIVE!
And why has no one on here answered the question why Trevor Graham sent in a syringe of the clear to authorities. This is truly the smoking gun of all conspiricies and yet no one has yet drawn any conclusions from it.
I love the sport of track and field and have dedicated myself to coaching and teaching the athletes in my care the higher purpose of trying your best and giving your all whenever the occasion arises. I have finally had some success in relating these ideas to my athletes and yet I have to wonder if what I am doing is futile when the people at the top of our sport have so little regard for our sport.
eman wrote:I love the sport of track and field and have dedicated myself to coaching and teaching the athletes in my care the higher purpose of trying your best and giving your all whenever the occasion arises. I have finally had some success in relating these ideas to my athletes and yet I have to wonder if what I am doing is futile when the people at the top of our sport have so little regard for our sport.
This sad affair has certainly made me appreciate my high school kids more. They may not put up impressive results, but they do it honestly and with good cheer.
WOW, Sportscenter talked about track today..........oh wait.
It's terrible, what a good year of track. lots of good competition and Alan Webb running so well........but no. Track's big get on ESPN was Marion Jones admitting she cheated. Sure that is a story, but when that's all people see about track, it doesn't look good. She was one of the track athletes that the any man or women could name. Now they hear this........not good for image.
jney wrote:hopefully, this hasn't been said before.
We are now, and shall be for the foreseeable future, in a cycle where PED allegations, confessions and covering-up will keep T&F in a negative light. It will either kill us (pro track as a viable business) or make us stronger. No one is laying money on the latter right now.
Maybe it is because the BALCO story broke in my backyard (with the attendant tons of news stories over the last four years about T&F and PEDs), but I find it highly unlikely that this latest chapter in and of itself is going to seriously modify anyone’s opinion about track & field.
jney wrote:hopefully, this hasn't been said before.
We are now, and shall be for the foreseeable future, in a cycle where PED allegations, confessions and covering-up will keep T&F in a negative light. It will either kill us (pro track as a viable business) or make us stronger. No one is laying money on the latter right now.
tafnut -- That's what PEDs do -- either kill you or make you stronger! Time will tell about whether T&F is in the clear...oh never mind...
What a BS confession Marion made.
I dislike her even more for CONTINUING TO LIE.
I HAVE SERIOSLY DOUBTS SHE DIDN T HAD HGH injected to her as her husband at the time declared.
Another logical thing about her lying AGAIN:
THG was INJECTABLE, as Trevor G send a seriynge not a god damn drink to put under the tongue.....
Yeah Marion continue to LiE!!!!!!!
dupontred wrote:wow...not suprised she used...just suprised that she finally admitted it.
for the longest time, I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, but after all the husbands/boyfriends/coaches all went down....well, ...
I wonder when she started...she had amazing natural talent in high school. I wonder how far she could have gotten just based on talent and hard work.
You wonder when she started? She started in high school, that's when. It was no accident that she didn't show up for her drug test. Johnnie Cochren got her off then, but he's dead now. Otherwise she might have gotten away with this. She still hasn't come clean about all her PED use. What a phony. I can't believe so many of you were taken in by her. One look at her at the '97 USATF championships made me suspicious.
Not to defend Jones for a microsecond, however the "burn the witch" tone of much of this thread is very unpleasant. She didn't kill anyone.
Nor can this be chalked up as a victory in anti-doping since she has only been outed via an irrelevant (to track) financial fraud, not any efforts by anti-doping authorities.
There are no winners here, there is no good news, only bad news and losers. IMHO.
bad hammy wrote:I find it highly unlikely that this latest chapter in and of itself is going to seriously modify anyone’s opinion about track & field.
Meaning that it's already so low, that it doesn't matter any more? If the public's opinion about T&F weren't already in the crapper, this new 'load' would certainly cause the septic tank to overflow.
What a way to end the season. That's ALL everyone will be talking about for the rest of the Fall and Winter. The fact that this happened back in 1998-2000 will not register at all.
bad hammy wrote:I find it highly unlikely that this latest chapter in and of itself is going to seriously modify anyone’s opinion about track & field.
Meaning that it's already so low, that it doesn't matter any more? If the public's opinion about T&F weren't already in the crapper, this new 'load' would certainly cause the septic tank to overflow.
What a way to end the season. That's ALL everyone will be talking about for the rest of the Fall and Winter. The fact that this happened back in 1998-2000 will not register at all.
You might be right but maybe just maybe because she was already suspect and its no huge surprise it will blow over rather quickly?
tafnut wrote:That's ALL everyone will be talking about for the rest of the Fall and Winter.
If by everyone you mean the general public or even sports fans, you seriously overestimate the legs on this chapter of the BALCO/MJ stories - Marion Jones and T&F just don't matter much in the real world. If and when Barry Bonds falls to a perjury rap you might get a few days out of it, but again, John. Q. Public has already made up his mind and these stories will not change it.
tafnut wrote:That's ALL everyone will be talking about for the rest of the Fall and Winter.
If by everyone you mean the general public or even sports fans, you seriously overestimate the legs on this chapter of the BALCO/MJ stories - Marion Jones and T&F just don't matter much in the real world. If and when Barry Bonds falls to a perjury rap you might get a few days out of it, but again, John. Q. Public has already made up his mind and these stories will not change it.
I think it is you who are underestimating the mainstream media's obsession with PEDs in general. As more and more NFL/NBA/MLB horror stories emerge (and they will - any self-respecting muck-raking journalist can now make a name for himself by outing big-name athletes), T&F will be held up as the "first and dirtiest" sport. I wouldn't even be surprised if the media didn't BLAME T&F for the national scandal. They will never let us forget our place in this debacle and in this regard, T&F will continue to be talked about. Marion was indeed a big name and they'll pin their hopes on a public that will not forgive or forget her.
yeah Not just the Media but the regular "fans" or people.
They love to see athletes using drugs so they can find an excuse why they are so geneticaly inferior to them.
bad hammy wrote:If and when Barry Bonds falls to a perjury rap you might get a few days out of it, but again, John. Q. Public has already made up his mind and these stories will not change it.
Exactly. I don't have a clue where Bonds stands with regards to his case - whether he has tested positive, whether he has admitted to anything, whether the feds have any other evidence against him. All I know is - purely from a Joe Public viewpoint (being from the UK, I know next to nothing about baseball) - that he is most likely a cheat and not to be trusted. If news broke tomorrow that he had tested positive, or admitted to anything, it wouldn't change my views of him whatsoever
The same probably applies to all the 'Joe Publics' who look into track and field. After seeing Marion's name constantly pop up in the BALCO-related press over the past few years, they'll see this news and will probably think: "Oh, another Marion Jones story. So she's dirty - didn't they figure that out ages ago?"
Justin Clouder wrote:Not to defend Jones for a microsecond, however the "burn the witch" tone of much of this thread is very unpleasant. She didn't kill anyone.
Let's hope murder doesn't become the threshold beyond which one must transgress before becoming the subject here of anger, scorn and extreme disappointment.
Justin Clouder wrote:Not to defend Jones for a microsecond, however the "burn the witch" tone of much of this thread is very unpleasant. She didn't kill anyone.
Nor can this be chalked up as a victory in anti-doping since she has only been outed via an irrelevant (to track) financial fraud, not any efforts by anti-doping authorities.
There are no winners here, there is no good news, only bad news and losers. IMHO.
Justin
I agree with everything you say - although I confess to feeling a certain amount of glee when I read the news.
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