About James BECKFORD's longevity...


This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; it's back to being locked.

Postby Pego » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:40 pm

Mats Nilsson wrote:
Pego wrote:The only thing I'll agree with in your post is that the MD by your name does not make you an expert in all things biological. I never claimed that distinction. I do, however, have a solid background in the function of the human nervous system.
Show me any credible evidence where ephedrine improved performance (not anecdotal, but solidly documented) and I'll shut up. There is plenty of evidence for steroids, for HGH and for hematocrit enhancers. I am not familiar with any for the stimulants.


Ok, I will state it again: Look up the reference that I gave in the original post [it is underlined]. Go to pubmed and do a litsearch (authors name + ephedrine) and you will find this pub. Once you have this pub then you use the reference list in the paper as a guide. Anyhow, if the abstracts exist on pubmed (which they do in this case) then they are credible sources and published in peer-reviewed journals. I am not going to do this leg-work for you Pego. Sorry for being rude and defensive. There was no need for that.


Agreed. Let's start from the beginning in a civilized fashion. For now, we'll just use the abstract of the referenced article that you pasted. I am putting key words in bold fonts.

<With their stimulant properties and sympathomimetic actions, ephedra alkaloids have been perceived as products that can potentially be used to enhance athletic performance and lending unfair advantages to athletes, even if used in supplement forms.>

Does "perceived" and "potentially" sound as solidly documented? To me it sounds as unsupported suppositions.

<Many athletes use food supplements containing ephedra alkaloids because of perceived benefits of increased energy, decreased time to exhaustion and potential thermogenic properties with increased metabolism, increased fat loss, and improved muscle strength.>

Again "perceived". Could it be what is called a "placebo effect"?

<In particular, a series of studies evaluated the effects of ephedrine in combination with caffeine showing an increased time to exhaustion and decreased rating of perceived exhaustion on cycle ergometry compared with either drug alone or placebo.>

As a researcher, you know how difficult it is to document effects of more than one drug administered together. There are simply too many variables. Once again, the word "perceived" is used.

Overall, this abstract offers little hope that the body of the article is worth chasing.
Pego
 
Posts: 10203
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Postby stallion » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:05 pm

Mats Nilsson wrote: I don't think so, but if everyone was like me then the world would be a sad, sad, sad place so I respect your opinion.


Your candid self-appraisal is admirable.
stallion
 
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth

Postby Mats Nilsson » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:48 pm

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth analysis. The topic of "cheating" per se is quite more complex than just consumption of banned vs. legal substances. Best of luck to all of you!
Last edited by Mats Nilsson on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mats Nilsson
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:20 am

Postby stallion » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:12 pm

Mats Nilsson wrote:
BTW, do you know what ratings of perceived exertion is? As an MD I bet you don't (they are generally not interested in exercise). Anyhow, the Borg's scale is subjective and everyone int he field knows this. I am sure they had more compelling evidence although the Borg scale is a good indicator of blood lactate concentrations, VO2 etc. Particularly when you are dealing with compliant research subjects.


This is very elementary stuff, Mats, so I think you underestimate Pego, but more to the point, the perceived level of exertion is often influenced by stimulants but this in itself is not tantamount to the assertion of an ergogenic effect(physical).
stallion
 
Posts: 744
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby Pego » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:28 pm

Mats Nilsson wrote:Did you look up the references Pego? Nope I assume you did not.


No, I did not and I told you in my post before this one why not. If the abstract uses terms such as "perceived" and "potentially", I cannot imagine how the sources could be any more persuasive.

Mats Nilsson wrote:BTW, do you know what ratings of perceived exertion is? As an MD I bet you don't (they are generally not interested in exercise).


I told you where my expertise is and it is not in exercise physiology. Your constant attacks on physicians in general are, however, getting tired. Sport medicine physicians, respiratory specialists, even some orthopedists and physiatrists are very interested in exercise.

This is my last post in this exchange regardless of what you might add. So far your argument has been just ad hominem attacks on myself and my guild.
Pego
 
Posts: 10203
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Postby Justin Clouder » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:50 pm

Pego wrote:. So far your argument has been just ad hominem attacks on myself and my guild.

And on James Beckford, who doesn't deserve it either.

Justin
Justin Clouder
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:14 am
Location: London, UK

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth

Postby Mats Nilsson » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:55 pm

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth analysis. The topic of "cheating" per se is quite more complex than just consumption of banned vs. legal substances. Best of luck to all of you!
Last edited by Mats Nilsson on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Mats Nilsson
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:20 am

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth

Postby Mats Nilsson » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:57 pm

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth analysis. The topic of "cheating" per se is quite more complex than just consumption of banned vs. legal substances. Best of luck to all of you!
Last edited by Mats Nilsson on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Mats Nilsson
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:20 am

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth

Postby Mats Nilsson » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:04 pm

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth analysis. The topic of "cheating" per se is quite more complex than just consumption of banned vs. legal substances. Best of luck to all of you!
Last edited by Mats Nilsson on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mats Nilsson
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:20 am

Postby eldrick » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:19 pm

listen now, boy

i am also an md

answer me this boy :

bex can jump 8.50m basic

he stuffs himself full of drugs 1 hour before to lose weight

how much weight does he need to lose to jump 8.60 ?
eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Postby Justin Clouder » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:21 pm

Mats Nilsson wrote:Well Justin...if you are not willing to face the facts then there is nothing I can do for you my friend. The original source is there for you and your "pro-drug friends" to read.

The facts are clear. He tested positive for a banned stimulant and was punished according to the rules...dq from the meet and a warning. Had he tested positive again in his subsequent career for anything at all he would have got a second strike ban. But he didn't, despite the long career which started this thread.

If you apply this sort of 'one sin, forever damned' approach to your whole life, you must be very lonely.

Justin
Justin Clouder
 
Posts: 1200
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:14 am
Location: London, UK

Postby dakota » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:05 pm

eldrick wrote:i am also an md



Everyone can tell from the piss poor handwriting.... :lol:
dakota
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth

Postby Mats Nilsson » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:51 pm

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth analysis. The topic of "cheating" per se is quite more complex than just consumption of banned vs. legal substances. Best of luck to all of you!
Last edited by Mats Nilsson on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mats Nilsson
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:20 am

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth

Postby Mats Nilsson » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:59 pm

Agreed that this is a difficult case requiring more in depth analysis. The topic of "cheating" per se is quite more complex than just consumption of banned vs. legal substances. Best of luck to all of you!
Last edited by Mats Nilsson on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mats Nilsson
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:20 am

Postby dakota » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:08 pm

Mats Nilsson wrote:I would guess that if he took a big shit before jumping in Osaka then perhaps it would make a 2 cm difference (assuming it was solid that is).


:D
dakota
 
Posts: 1413
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby eldrick » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:28 pm

dakota wrote:
eldrick wrote:i am also an md



Everyone can tell from the piss poor handwriting.... :lol:


unfortunately for "us"

shipman killed the job

i maybe most "liked" guy around here ( or maybe not :twisted: ), but job is dead

i only locum, but pride insists patients only get the best you can offer - i'd give you top-notch, but now i have to have yearly appraisals post-shipman:

"showing i'm kind & compassionat & stroke furry animals"

i have been professionally neutered from usual speech of:

you're a fat slob & if you don't lose 20 pounds thru proper exercise/dieting in 3 months, you'll need lifetime aspirin/lipitor/coversyl/cozaar... & if you can afford it, you shoud be on plavix, which possibly/probably prevents you dying from a heart attack/stroke before 65y
eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest