Can you believe Ben Johnson?


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Can you believe Ben Johnson?

Postby jlightnin » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:55 pm

UNBELIEVABLE!!!

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 88,00.html
:shock:


NEWS.com.au |
FOX SPORTS |


Lewis sabotage claim
Mike Hurst
December 01, 2006 12:00am
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BEN Johnson yesterday dramatically alleged superstar Carl Lewis was "involved" in a conspiracy to sabotage the Canadian's drug sample and bring on the biggest scandal in Olympic history...... [copyright violation---rest of post pulled by mods]
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Re: Can you believe Ben Johnson?

Postby Daisy » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:30 pm

jlightnin wrote:UNBELIEVABLE!!!

BJ has been going on about a conspiracy for ages. And who would gain the most? Isn't this a logical accusation if he believes he was set up?.
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Re: Can you believe Ben Johnson?

Postby nevetsllim » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:14 pm

Well last year, he said his drinks were spiked :roll:
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Postby b_johnson_fan » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:19 pm

I knew it!!!
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Postby kuha » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:27 pm

So, it's taken speedy Ben only 18 years to figure out this who-dun-it? Bravo! Next, I look to him to solve the recent mysteries of the Hoffa disappearance, the JFK assassination, and the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby.
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Postby MJD » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:34 pm

I'll say the same thing I say every time this pops up-old news.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:51 pm

kuha wrote:Next, I look to him to solve the recent mysteries of the Hoffa disappearance, the JFK assassination, and the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby.

Don't forget we still haven't found out who killed OJ's wife . . .
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Postby kuha » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:34 pm

bad hammy wrote:
kuha wrote:Next, I look to him to solve the recent mysteries of the Hoffa disappearance, the JFK assassination, and the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby.

Don't forget we still haven't found out who killed OJ's wife . . .


By Ben's scale of measure, the OJ thing is so recent that it hasn't even happened yet... Yes, swami, I see a white Bronco, going very slowly....slowly....
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Postby eldrick » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:39 pm

kuha wrote:So, it's taken speedy Ben only 18 years to figure out this who-dun-it? Bravo! Next, I look to him to solve the recent mysteries of the Hoffa disappearance, the JFK assassination, and the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby.


I watched a "Murder She Wrote" today after lunch which truly appalled me :

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0653480/

JB Fletcher
( who was better known by everyone she encountered on every episode than that provincial hack,
Bill Shakes
:? )

found a conspiracy linking Lee Oswald to a Mafiosi thru a decrepit 64y old detective who managed to beat up all the 6'3/210 guys who interposed

Unfortunately, just when JB thought she was on the verge of cracking JFK's assassination, the photo-negatives sank in the ocean/64y old detective got shot dead & Mafiosi blew up in his car - all in the last 5 minutes !

JB made an even uglier face than I thought was possible for her, let alone any bipedal, JFK's assassination went unsolved by her &

Big Little Ben has a conspiracy theory for '88...
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Postby kuha » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:46 pm

Good to see that we are exporting the very best in US pop culture! I see that this episode was written by Tom Sawyer--I'd advise him to get back to painting the fence.
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Postby MJD » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:53 pm

I'll say it again in another way. THERE HAS ALREADY BEEN ABOUT FIVE THREADS ON THIS.

Here is the first one, I think-over three years old:

http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discuss ... tage#20050
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Postby kuha » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:12 pm

How many threads have there been on the JFK episode of Murder, She Wrote?????
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Postby Jefferson Buffalo » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:33 pm

kuha wrote: Next, I look to him to solve the recent mysteries of the Hoffa disappearance . . . .

Reese Hoffa has disappeared? :)
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Postby dukehjsteve » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:49 pm

Where was OJ Simpson on Nov. 22, 1963 ? Has this been investigated ?
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Postby tandfman » Tue Dec 05, 2006 8:05 pm

Speaking of OJ, you wanna feel real old? OJ will be 60 next July!
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Postby lonewolf » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:34 pm

Ah, to be 60 again....
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Postby kamikaze7 » Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:57 am

Maybe this is about getting a book deal or some reality show. I dont blame him. Every broke / washed up celebrity does it.
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Postby tonymcl » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:52 am

The whole man's post Seoul career has been both sad and a joke. He is nothing but a Cheetah--if you live in Canada, you will get the pun.

Post Seoul, he was running slower than highschool kids, then just before the 1992 Barcelona Olympic trials-- he was running world class. If he didn't stumble out of the blocks in the Olympic heats, he may have done some damage in the Olympic finals. We will never know.

Those in the know, speculated he had returned to his evil ways. Then later another doping infraction.

Yes, a scapegoat, but yes a cheat--- a tragic figure none the less.
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Postby jlightnin » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:08 pm

kuha wrote:JFK assassination


Can anyone confirm the wherabouts of Elvis on Nov. 22nd, 1963.
After watching the film closely, I coulda' swore I saw a dude with thick sideburns wearing a white jumpsuit with rhinestones on it, carrying a guitar case near the grassy knoll.
"WHAT WAS REALLY IN THE GUITAR CASE?"
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Postby figo » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:31 pm

the peanut gallery has spoken in mass.
ben may be wacko but what in the hell is douglas saying here???

Asked how the US footballer procured a pass into the doping control area, Douglas yesterday said: "If I thought Ben was going to take a masking agent (to disguise the presence of a drug) I might plant somebody in there to make sure if he did he (the plant) would take a photo of it. You want to make sure somebody doesn't take anything from their bag, to get close enough to make sure he (Johnson) didn't take anything to cover up.

i gather ben believes what he's saying....paranoid maybe, surely?
we have apparently a ben foe that will plant a spy, so why not plant a beer?
douglas feels he can make justice himself... this guy needs looking into.

also the proposed masking agent administration technique, proposed spike, stanozolol vs stanozolol metabolite (not found) leave too many questions for me to come up with any kind of overall assessment except to say that both douglas and ben smell funny.
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Postby MJD » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:23 am

I'm going to revise and extend my remarks. Has Douglas always been this much of an idiot in non coaching relating matters? He's just gone ahead and dignified Johnson's remarks. Moron.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Dec 07, 2006 3:44 am

Once you realize that ALL positive tests are the result of sneeky and shady sabateurs you can relax and rest easy knowing that NO ONE has ever willingly taken ANYTHING illegal. :roll: :roll: :roll: :arrow: :roll: :arrow: :arrow: :shock: :arrow: :P
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Postby MJD » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:01 am

It looks like Mackay might be taking a bit of journalistic license.


"Joe Douglas...did admit planting Lewis's friend in the doping control area, which is against anti-drug rules."


http://sport.guardian.co.uk/athletics/s ... ?gusrc=rss
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Postby Powell » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:44 am

kamikaze7 wrote:Maybe this is about getting a book deal or some reality show. I dont blame him. Every broke / washed up celebrity does it.


You reckon Ben wants to get on "Dancing with the Stars"?
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Postby figo » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:07 am

MJD wrote:It looks like Mackay might be taking a bit of journalistic license.
"Joe Douglas...did admit planting Lewis's friend in the doping control area, which is against anti-drug rules."
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/athletics/s ... ?gusrc=rss


ok - peanut gallery, you have this douglas cat planting a spy and ben knew about it, and we all know ben says he took steroids but was clean at the time of the OG run.

now it's not that paranoid of ben to think maybe that spy was the cause of his misfortune, i mean what in the hell would the spy be doing?
maybe ben doesn't buy this theory that the spy was there to watch that he took something after the race....

masking would best be done before the race so it can be metabolized and show in the urine with any residue steroid metabolite.

similarly, the spiked beer theory suffers from the same problem.

i'm curious, very.

and by the way, i think king carl was mostly clean in his carear....

king carl all but accuses powell of using steroids calling his performances unrealistic....and i say that karls performance in the ben race and his races around that time are similarly "unrealistic"....

king carl still has his agenda, perhaps appropriately paranoid, anyone faster than him must be cheating....
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Postby eldrick » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:22 am

figo wrote:king carl all but accuses powell of using steroids calling his performances unrealistic....and i say that karls performance in the ben race and his races around that time are similarly "unrealistic"....

king carl still has his agenda, perhaps appropriately paranoid, anyone faster than him must be cheating....


in fact, King was possibly running even faster for 100 in '84 than '88

he has a wind-adjusted 9.92 basic from '84 trials final ( 10.06 into a 2.2 ), which he never ran quicker ( basic ) than again in his career

i don't think he seriously believes that no-one since him can run faster without doping :

leave aside mo, safa is next best of the rest with ~ 9.83 basic, less than 0.1s quicker than King

now, we all know from King's races he had a shit start/pick-up & probably never led an elite race in his career at the 60m mark

if in all those years he'd spent most of his time developing his start/pick-up ( like a similar big-man in linford did ), then i can see him having been close to that 0.1s faster - up there with safa

really it was his own fault he never ran faster ( maybe juggling 3 events didn't allow him to concentrate specifically on his start ? )
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Postby figo » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:15 pm

i buy eldrick's analysis....

for the record and for what that's worth, assuming that king was clean for the most part of his career
he is my pick for the number one track and field athlete of all time.
and ben is my fastest dirty guy of all time.
i tend to the idea that maybe powell is the the only clean guy to go faster @ 100m than king
the clean powell theory is based on the way he talks only, but in general you can't trust sportsmen for an honest answer.....

i like lewis and i like ben but i don't like bullshit.
i think ben's telling the truth - in the sense that he believes what he's saying, while with carl, i get the strong impression he's holding out....speaking between the lines, perhaps he's been burned too many times by saying exactly what he thinks?
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Postby Johnny Walker Red » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:15 pm

I doubt BJ was any dirtier than "King Carl". After all, years later, it turned out Lewis had tested positive on several occasions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis

It was revealed that Lewis tested positive three times before the 1988 Olympics for pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine, banned stimulants also found in cold medication, and had been banned from the Seoul Olympics and from competition for six months. The USOC accepted his claim of inadvertent use and overturned the decision. Fellow Santa Monica Track Club teammates Joe DeLoach and Floyd Heard were also found to have the same banned stimulants in their systems, and were cleared to compete for the same reason...Some experts claim that the banned stimulants can be used as masking agents for more serious drugs, such as anabolic steroids.

Yeah, all those sprinters with colds, or learning disabilities, or...

BJ is a nut, but KC was probably no cleaner than Ben. Go ahead and Google it if you like. There's all kinds of info out there. Carl was talented, and most likely used PED's to maximize what he could.
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Postby figo » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:25 pm

why not have the medical doctors here expose their knowledge on this johnny walker red remark?

examination question: do these amines interfere with the steroid test and what method was used? i.e. gcms, hplc. etc?
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Postby fourjz » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:35 am

It's amazing given the fact that his own coach Charlie "ridin' dirty" Francis admits to Johnson's steroid addiction during his tainted career.Pitiful. :oops: :cry:
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Postby eldrick » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:03 am

Johnny Walker Red wrote:Some experts claim that the banned stimulants can be used as masking agents for more serious drugs, such as anabolic steroids.


believe me, this claim is nonsense

i spent a lot, a lot of time searching journals in the past looking for a paper claiming this & i have found none - if you ever find a respected paper showing this, i'll eat my hat

( the only mention i've ever heard of this is in some book : ? body-builder handbook or steroid nation or somesuch, but that wasn't written by a scientist & he offered only anecdotal quotes from bodybuilders & no hard research )

evidence enough for non-existence of this claim is that wada have downgraded stimulants to ?3 month ban whereas known proven masking agents for anabolics like diuretics give you a 2y ban

do you not believe that wada with all the research scientists at their disposal coud find a tenable paper claiming stimulants can mask anabolics ( like diuretics ), they woud have immediately upraded stimulants to the 2y ban ?
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Postby EPelle » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:51 am

eldrick, forgive the lack of being informed on my part, but would lbumin be considered a masking agent? It is on the WADA Prohibited Substances List. I:ve read that it enables the transportation of wastes in the body. Coupled with drugs which quickly eliminate PEDs from the body, would this prohibited substance be classified as a masking agent?
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Postby MJD » Fri Dec 08, 2006 2:55 am

fourjz wrote:It's amazing given the fact that his own coach Charlie "ridin' dirty" Francis admits to Johnson's steroid addiction during his tainted career.Pitiful. :oops: :cry:


What's your point?
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Postby eldrick » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:02 am

albumin binds a lot of different molecules in the blood

if you infuse it, you can bind a lot of molecules to it ( e g anabolics, etc ), thereby reducing the effective "free" concentration of the drug in the blood & reduce the amount filtered in the kidney & appearing in the urine ( albumin is too large a molecule to be filtered by health kidneys, so it & the attached drug remain in the blood )

hence, the albumin infusion has led to a reduced concentration of drug in the urine, making drug harder to detect & therefore acted as a "masking" agent ( it's still a shit masking action as detectors are so sensitive know, i doubt it much affects detection rates - it's probably a waste of time even trying it )

this is the bottom line - for any masking agent, you have to have a viable scientific mechanism for it to work - there isn't one with stimulants
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