Graham Charged In BALCO II


This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; it's back to being locked.

Graham Charged In BALCO II

Postby gh » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:42 pm

Last edited by gh on Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
gh
 
Posts: 46306
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby gh » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:44 pm

The précis:

<<Trevor Graham, who has coached of some of the world's fastest track stars, was charged here Thursday with hindering the government's probe into steroid use by elite athletes......

Graham was summoned to appear for arraignment Nov. 16 in U.S. District Court. If convicted of all three counts, he faces a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison and $750,000.....>>
gh
 
Posts: 46306
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:05 pm

The cover-up often brings the bigger criminal charges. I suppose that he felt that he had to say certain things to protect his coaching etc., but in doing so committed what, to the authorities, is a bigger no-no. The one thing I keep remembering is a recent comment about TG from AP's coach, who was surprisingly supportive of TG. I figure that he knows more than I and so I am giving TG some extra benefit of the doubt.
26mi235
 
Posts: 16315
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Madison, WI

Postby gh » Fri Nov 03, 2006 5:17 am

SF Chronicle story by the BALCO-book boys this morning:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... /BALCO.TMP
gh
 
Posts: 46306
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby jhc68 » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:01 am

What I have never understood: Why did Graham send the drug authorities the famous sample of PED substance? What was he trying to do? What did he have in mind at that time?
jhc68
 
Posts: 3289
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby Daisy » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:28 am

jhc68 wrote:What I have never understood: Why did Graham send the drug authorities the famous sample of PED substance? What was he trying to do? What did he have in mind at that time?

I presumme he planned to get rid of the competition. His athletes would not have been on the THG. The others all thought it was undetectable. If the competition did not get thinned before the big event then there is still a good chance that second, even third, could end up being gold.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby Trackshark » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:40 am

This would make a great made-for-TV movie.
Trackshark
 
Posts: 772
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Boston - Born and raised in C-Town, Ohio

Postby guru » Fri Nov 03, 2006 10:49 am

Trackshark wrote:This would make a great made-for-TV movie.



Truth is always stranger than fiction.

Hey, I better write that down 8)
guru
 
Posts: 10265
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Strava, racking KOMs https://tinyurl.com/qf2ntch

Postby EPelle » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:11 am

Trackshark wrote:This would make a great made-for-TV movie.

With headlines as these, they won:t be too far behind.
EPelle
 
Posts: 21442
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby bad hammy » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:36 am

EPelle wrote:
Trackshark wrote:This would make a great made-for-TV movie.

With headlines as these, they won:t be too far behind.

Headlines the public isn't reading paraphrasing a lawyer making noise that won't be heard by anyone of consequence. I have $10 that says TG never goes to trial over this, not even close.
bad hammy
 
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby gh » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:01 pm

How about Williams and Fainaru-Wada?
gh
 
Posts: 46306
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby bad hammy » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:08 pm

I see some jail time in their future . . . the judge certainly has no problem making Bond’s trainer sweat in jail for a while.

They might get lucky. Their employer (SF Chron) is definitely going to the mat for them, and there seems to be bi-partisan support for a federal shield law to protect reporters in these kinds of cases.

(Note for those who may have missed this: if this was a CA or local case the reporters would be off the hook. CA, along with many other states, has shield laws in place to protect reporters from having to give up sources. The US government does not, and this is, unfortunately for the reporters right now, a federal case.)

Maybe Bush will pardon them . . .
bad hammy
 
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Who will roll first may the question at hand

Postby Speedbuff » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:15 pm

Will Trevor possibly roll on Marion in exchange for lenciency at some point? Will Tim possibly roll on Trevor in exchange for leniency in his bank fraud case at some point? Will coach Riddick possibly roll on Marion in his bank fraud case at some point? Could there possibly be some communication between the feds in San Francisco and the feds in New York involving people involved in both cases? Is it possible that what happens next will be about who will roll on who first? There are losts of interesting questions that have now developed in this case.
Speedbuff
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:48 pm

Postby gh » Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:17 pm

Even though we now have the "non-analytical positive" system in place, it's a whole new ballgame, but I wonder how Trevor could roll on Marion and USADA makes it stick? Surely "I gave her drugs," isn't enough. If there wasn't enough smoking-gun evidence on her in the original BALCO finding, what more could he provide?
gh
 
Posts: 46306
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby Speedbuff » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:00 pm

Trevor's cooperation would simply be added to the CJ Hunter, Victor Conte and 'Memo" statements in addition to the calanders, checks and other evidence that exists. If Trevor, Victor, Memo and CJ all four stated that they have directly observed Marion use drugs, would that not possibly be enough for the feds to bring a perjury case against her?
Speedbuff
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:48 pm

Postby eldrick » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:06 pm

Speedbuff wrote:Trevor's cooperation would simply be added to the CJ Hunter, Victor Conte and 'Memo" statements in addition to the calanders, checks and other evidence that exists. If Trevor, Victor, Memo and CJ all four stated that they have directly observed Marion use drugs, would that not possibly be enough for the feds to bring a perjury case against her?


3 of their "testimonies" coudn't get a non-analytical +ve ban on her, so why will 4 ?
eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Postby Speedbuff » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:09 pm

Let's not forget the possibility that Tim Montgomery and coach Steve Riddick could roll on Marion in exchange for leniency in their bank fraud case. Who knows, Marion may possibly roll on them in exchange for not being charged herself. Ya think that might have been what happened with Randall Evans? Is it possible that Randall rolled on Trevor in exchange for not being charged himself? Certainly seems like that could be a possibility. Memo supposedly admitted to being their drug supplier and he got a "get out of jail" card in exchange for his cooperation. The feds game certainly includes the "roll and walk" method of doing business. We know that much for sure.
Speedbuff
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:48 pm

Postby Speedbuff » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:12 pm

Eldrick, don't assume that Marion is out of the woods yet. This case is far from being over. In fact, the case may only be at half-time at this point.
Speedbuff
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:48 pm

Postby EPelle » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:17 pm

Are you the only other person of reason here beside tafnut?! :-)
EPelle
 
Posts: 21442
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby eldrick » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:21 pm

Speedbuff wrote:Eldrick, don't assume that Marion is out of the woods yet. This case is far from being over. In fact, the case may only be at half-time at this point.

Image
eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Postby pv22' » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:11 pm

eldrick wrote:
Speedbuff wrote:Eldrick, don't assume that Marion is out of the woods yet. This case is far from being over. In fact, the case may only be at half-time at this point.

Image


Good idea old man, goto sleep. You are boring and living in a different time.
pv22'
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby Speedbuff » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:36 am

Eldrick seems to be in total denial regarding what may possibly be revealed about Marion's career in the future. The accumulation of all of the evidence simply cannot be ignored at this point. I'll admit that she does seem to have more lives than a cat, though. Eldrick seems to want to believe that everyone is lying except Marion. Are two of her suppliers plus ex-husband lying about their direct knowledge of her use of PED's? If so, why? How does it serve them to do so? She was in a camp that now has produced as many as ten positive drug tests. Both her ex-husband and father of her son have been banned. Her former coach has now been indicted. And Eldrick chooses to remain asleep on the issue. Hmmm.
Speedbuff
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:48 pm

Postby eldrick » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:49 am

yawn...

bring something to the table we haven't heard before
eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Postby bad hammy » Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:33 pm

Speedbuff wrote:Eldrick seems to be in total denial regarding what may possibly be revealed about Marion's career in the future.

You forget. Her real career in T&F is in the past, circa 2000.
bad hammy
 
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby Speedbuff » Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:10 pm

Much more may be revealed about Marion's entire track career. Based upon the recent legal developments involving her former coach Trevor Graham, it seems as though the fat lady hasn't shown up to sing her song quite yet.
Speedbuff
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:48 pm

Postby eldrick » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:39 am

Speedbuff wrote:Much more may be revealed about Marion's entire track career. Based upon the recent legal developments involving her former coach Trevor Graham, it seems as though the fat lady hasn't shown up to sing her song quite yet.


as far as i recall, trevor hasn't been marion's coach for a few years - so he can offer nothing on her career of the past ~ coupla years

when he was her coach around the millenium, this was part of balco scandal & after all that investigation nothing came of it against marion

this case against trevor appears to have nothing to do directly with balco : the main witness against him is heredia, who had nothing to do with balco ( he was a straight-up drug mule who trafficked drugs from mexico back into america : as far as i've read, he never ever worked/had any association to balco ( someone can double check that ) )

in the end, he may have strong documentary evidence which "proves" he supplied trevor with standard doping drugs ( that may be difficult for trevor to disprove, but we haven't seen this evidence yet ), but that doesn't give him any direct tie to marion

heredia or trevor may claim they gave marion drugs, but then it's just their word against marion & cj & tim claimed the same & nothing came of that !

besides, this is a fed inquiry into perjury - feds don't concern themselves with people who actually take drugs, only suppliers - as there are no legal charges to be brought against any suspected drug-taker, i fail to see how the investigation is going to go in this direction

feds are after 1 thing - prove trevor received drugs from heredia - that's their aim ( unless something goes off at a tangent & someone accuses marion of being a drug-supplier ! )
eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Postby eldrick » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:53 am

eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Postby high knees » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:02 pm

bad hammy wrote:
Speedbuff wrote:Eldrick seems to be in total denial regarding what may possibly be revealed about Marion's career in the future.

You forget. Her real career in T&F is in the past, circa 2000.


Actually, Marion hasn't PR'd in her signature events (100/200m) since 1998! Nearly ten years w/o a PR (400 pr in 2000) and we're still debating about her career, plus the fact that no one (US or otherwise) has run faster since. That either shows a) how far women's track and field has fallen, or b) how much it's been cleaned up (or how doped up it was, take your pick).
high knees
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby eldrick » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:35 pm

high knees wrote:Actually, Marion hasn't PR'd in her signature events (100/200m) since 1998! Nearly ten years w/o a PR (400 pr in 2000) and we're still debating about her career, plus the fact that no one (US or otherwise) has run faster since. That either shows a) how far women's track and field has fallen, or b) how much it's been cleaned up (or how doped up it was, take your pick).


since random testing has been around since '89 & i don't recall any announcement of hugely more amount of it from precisely '98 onwards, then i'll take the former...

( anyhows, inger ran within 0.01s of marion's pb in '99 final with a fantastic run - she was a "proper" 200 runner & with no injuries in '00, she may have progressed to a 21.6 )
eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Postby pv22' » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:04 pm

eldrick wrote:
high knees wrote:Actually, Marion hasn't PR'd in her signature events (100/200m) since 1998! Nearly ten years w/o a PR (400 pr in 2000) and we're still debating about her career, plus the fact that no one (US or otherwise) has run faster since. That either shows a) how far women's track and field has fallen, or b) how much it's been cleaned up (or how doped up it was, take your pick).


since random testing has been around since '89 & i don't recall any announcement of hugely more amount of it from precisely '98 onwards, then i'll take the former...

( anyhows, inger ran within 0.01s of marion's pb in '99 final with a fantastic run - she was a "proper" 200 runner & with no injuries in '00, she may have progressed to a 21.6 )


Ill go with B,final answer...
pv22'
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby kevin_saylors » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:23 pm

high knees wrote:
bad hammy wrote:
Speedbuff wrote:Eldrick seems to be in total denial regarding what may possibly be revealed about Marion's career in the future.

You forget. Her real career in T&F is in the past, circa 2000.


Actually, Marion hasn't PR'd in her signature events (100/200m) since 1998! Nearly ten years w/o a PR (400 pr in 2000) and we're still debating about her career, plus the fact that no one (US or otherwise) has run faster since. That either shows a) how far women's track and field has fallen, or b) how much it's been cleaned up (or how doped up it was, take your pick).


Or, c) How much that Altitude actually affects sprint events. Marion's PRs in the 100 and 200 were both set in Johannesburg, at significant altitude (~1750m).

Kevin
kevin_saylors
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby eldrick » Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:27 pm

pv22' wrote:
eldrick wrote:
high knees wrote:Actually, Marion hasn't PR'd in her signature events (100/200m) since 1998! Nearly ten years w/o a PR (400 pr in 2000) and we're still debating about her career, plus the fact that no one (US or otherwise) has run faster since. That either shows a) how far women's track and field has fallen, or b) how much it's been cleaned up (or how doped up it was, take your pick).


since random testing has been around since '89 & i don't recall any announcement of hugely more amount of it from precisely '98 onwards, then i'll take the former...

( anyhows, inger ran within 0.01s of marion's pb in '99 final with a fantastic run - she was a "proper" 200 runner & with no injuries in '00, she may have progressed to a 21.6 )


Ill go with B,final answer...


i'm amazed you settled for that !

i was expecting the "legendary"

z

Image
eldrick
 
Posts: 14147
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: 19th hole st andrews

Postby gh » Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:47 am

this thread has outlived its usefulness as a news vehicle, and is sliding off into innuendo. So it's off to the graveyard.
gh
 
Posts: 46306
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest