Toth alleged to be positve


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Toth alleged to be positve

Postby MJD » Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:57 am

"U.S. shot put champion Kevin Toth is among those who have tested positive, according to sources with knowledge of the investigation. Toth could not be reached for comment yesterday; his wife, reached at their home, declined to comment."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer
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Re: Toth alleged to be positve

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:17 am

Our sport is a mess.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positve

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:22 am

since we actually test and it is a mess imagine what non-testing sports are like!
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Re: Toth alleged to be positve

Postby Trackshark » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:27 am

>"U.S. shot put champion Kevin Toth is among
>those who have tested positive, according to
>sources with knowledge of the investigation.

While I was at Kent State, Toth trained there (and still does according to one of my old teammates there) all the time. If this all holds to be true, it would be a slap in the face to all of us who witnessed his teachings and techniques for all of the student-athletes there. We all looked up to the guy who would train with the throwers daily. I guess we'll wait for his word...
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Re: Toth alleged to be positve

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:48 am

Victor Conte: "As many will soon find out, the world of track and field is a very dirty business and this goes far beyond just the coaches and athletes."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Oct16.html
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Re: Toth alleged to be positve

Postby MJD » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:57 am

>Victor Conte: "As many will soon find out, the
>world of track and field is a very dirty business
>and this goes far beyond just the coaches and
>athletes."
>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/
>37329-2003Oct16.html

Same article as at the top which I don't think requires registration. Not that Conte has all that much credibility but where have we heard that before? Funny thing is that it isn't even being discussed on his site. Old news I guess.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positve

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:27 am

All of the people listed as being clients under BALCO have been somewhat suspected as taking steroids. Does anyone deny that they thought Romanowski was on steroids? Also, I don't know how Bonds can escape this unscathed. Even his own trainer was investigated and raided. All sports should instigate comprehensive drug testing. There's absolutely no excuse not to have it.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positve

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:42 am

Mr.Editor why can we post uncertain remarks about other Pro-Athletes like B.Bond & Romo, but as soon as a former world class T & F athlete is mention the post is removed? M.J......M.G........T.M.......?????????
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Re: Toth alleged to be positve

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:58 am

Is Kevin Toth not an athlete? Why is his name being dragged through the mud about Steriod Accucations??And what about Barry Bonds and Bill Romo....I think those posts with there names need to be removed. If we can't say things about M.J. etc than why can things about those players been allowed on the board????Hypo's!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby MJD » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:15 am

>Is Kevin Toth not an athlete? Why is his name
>being dragged through the mud about Steriod
>Accucations??And what about Barry Bonds and Bill
>Romo....I think those posts with there names need
>to be removed. If we can't say things about M.J.
>etc than why can things about those players been
>allowed on the board????Hypo's!!!!!!!!!!

I thought about that before I posted it(particularly since I think my first post deletion was the night before) and I suspect that Ben considered it. The reason that I posted it is because the Washington Post is a reputable newspaper and wouldn't have printed the name unless they were damn sure they had the goods. Keep in mind that we still don't know who deepthroat is. I note that I spelled "positive" wrong in the subject line. Another request for the edit function Ben:-).
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:18 am

Washington Post///////////New York Post/////they all can say whatever and hire whoever but just because you read it in the Newspaper that doesn't make it the Law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby MJD » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:25 am

>Washington Post///////////New York Post/////they
>all can say whatever and hire whoever but just
>because you read it in the Newspaper that doesn't
>make it the Law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually if you are going to compare a NY paper to a Washington paper, the more accurate comparison would be to the grey lady. You missed my point. The decision was whether or not it was an appropriate post according to the guidelines(which I note Ben had to remind you of) and I decided it was given the credibility of the Washington Post. I am assuming that the powers that be(who are hardly communist btw) around here likely agreed since the thread still remains. They may however just be busy keeping an eye on you and may get to me later. I don't know. I guess we'll see if Toth sues and what eventually comes out about it.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Guest » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:26 am

there's gonna be hell to pay for sure, you can bet on that. Can you say "busted"?
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby MJD » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:28 am

>there's gonna be hell to pay for sure, you can
>bet on that. Can you say "busted"?

Given your last post, I would imagine I'm not the only one who is not sure just what you are talking about.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby MJD » Fri Oct 17, 2003 6:33 pm

Well that's that then. I guess the Washington Post had it wrong and it's time to delete the thread.

"I've never even heard of it," Toth told TPR this afternoon, when asked about the substance at the center of the USADA's announcement yesterday. Stunned by the accusation, Toth, who finished fourth at August's World Track & Field Championships in Paris, wouldn't offer any additional comment, but said that he will issue a statement early next week that he said will "spell the whole thing out."

http://www.trackprofile.com/tpr68.html
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby MJD » Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:26 am

Ok, here is the story.

"Throughout the 20 years that I have been a track and field athlete, I have never taken any substance that was banned by the International Olympic Committee or by the IAAF.''"


"``The USADA's press conference (last week) on the THG cases, even if not a technical violation, certainly violates the spirit of USADA's own protocol,'' Jacobs said in the statement."



http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/7055238.htm
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby MJD » Tue Oct 21, 2003 4:51 am

"Kevin is saying he didn't know what it was," said Howard Jacobs, Toth's lawyer, about supplements he received from BALCO. "If he took it at all, he certainly didn't know what it was. He had never heard of tetrahydrogestrinone or THG."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/2003-10- ... ocus_x.htm
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:35 am

Next he'll be telling us he's "shocked, shocked to find gambling going on here!" (Here are your winnings, Mr. Toth.)
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:54 am

As a former high school thrower, and a life-long follower of the sport, it pains me to say this, but I think the time may have come to eliminate the throws from T&F entirely, at least at the elite level. The events seem to have become little more now than contests in sucessful chemical subterfuge and have, thereby, lost most of their interest as meaningful athletic competitions. Due to events like this one, and the fact that many sucessful throwers now apparently see suspensions as simply part of the sport and a great training opportunity for the big major meets, the competitions have become a joke and the results are viewed by almost all fans with great and justifiable suspicion. While the events have long and colorful histories, there appears to be no change on the horizon for the forseeable future, and the sport of T&F would likely be better off without these events in their current heavily compromised form.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:54 am

It's interesting to note that in the midst of all these allegations coming to light, the elite athletes of USATF held a summit in Miami, FL, to discuss this very subject.

It would be interesting to her what the USATF Athletic Advisory Committee has to say.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:35 am

>
"Kevin is saying he didn't know what it was,"
>said Howard Jacobs, Toth's lawyer, about
>supplements he received from BALCO. "If he took
>it at all, he certainly didn't know what it was.
>He had never heard of tetrahydrogestrinone or
>THG."

Hey, that's pretty funny. If he really took it, he didn't know what it was. *If* he took it, that is! Sure, it showed up in his urine test, but that's not *proof* he took it! (Step 1: try to discredit the testing procedure).

Wouldn't a world class athlete be interested in knowing what it was he was taking? Couldn't he have asked someone to look it up to see whether or not it was an anabolic steroid? (Step 2: if step 1 fails, claim it was tainted toothpaste).

VC: "Here, take one of these three times daily."
KT: "What is it?"
CV: "Don't ask. You don't wanna know. But it'll put you on the top podium."
KT: (Shrugs) "OK, whatever."
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby rmayes » Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:48 am

>As a former high school thrower, and a life-long
>follower of the sport, it pains me to say this,
>but I think the time may have come to eliminate
>the throws from T&F entirely, at least at the
>elite level. The events seem to have become
>little more now than contests in sucessful
>chemical subterfuge and have, thereby, lost most
>of their interest as meaningful athletic
>competitions. Due to events like this one, and
>the fact that many sucessful throwers now
>apparently see suspensions as simply part of the
>sport and a great training opportunity for the
>big major meets, the competitions have become a
>joke and the results are viewed by almost all
>fans with great and justifiable suspicion. While
>the events have long and colorful histories,
>there appears to be no change on the horizon for
>the forseeable future, and the sport of T&F would
>likely be better off without these events in
>their current heavily compromised form.

I wouldn't be so hard on the throws. We have seen positive tests showing up lately in virtually every type of event. I wouldn't say the throws have any less of a tainted history than the sprints do and even the distance runners seem to be catching up in this respect. We need to press forward on trying to clean up the whole sport, not start eliminating "dirty" events.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Asterix » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:17 am

Hey, that's
>pretty funny. If he really took it, he didn't
>know what it was. *If* he took it, that is!
>Sure, it showed up in his urine test, but that's
>not *proof* he took it! (Step 1: try to
>discredit the testing procedure).

Kevin and his lawyer need to get on the same page. Lawyer is saying "if" he took it, while Kevin is saying "I have never taken any substance that was banned by the International Olympic Committee or by the IAAF".

I think he forgot to include "I have never KNOWINGLY taken..."
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Guest » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:18 am

>many sucessful throwers now
>apparently see suspensions as simply part of the
>sport and a great training opportunity for the
>big major meets

I've asked this before and either never got an answer or just missed it: Are suspended athletes tested? If not, guys like Mikhnevich get a free ride. Heck, a smart thrower would make sure he came off suspension right before the Olympics (although the WC might be even better considering that it's a paid gig).
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Alexander » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:31 am

An athlete can´t get back without giving a certain amount of clean, unwarranted tests through his/her suspension. No free rides!

This is often a problem for a former user of steroids. Recovery doesn´t work quite so well as it used to and they´ll have to renew their work/rest balance....
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby MJD » Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:36 am

Kevin and his lawyer need to get on the same
>page. Lawyer is saying "if" he took it, while
>Kevin is saying "I have never taken any
>substance that was banned by the International
>Olympic Committee or by the IAAF".

I think he
>forgot to include "I have never KNOWINGLY
>taken..."

Maybe they are on the same page. Maybe he is saying that even if he did take it, it doesn't matter because it wasn't SPECIFICALLY banned.
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby Asterix » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:24 am

Maybe they
>are on the same page. Maybe he is saying that
>even if he did take it, it doesn't matter because
>it wasn't SPECIFICALLY banned.

Then he would be plainly wrong. See IAAF rule 60, para 1 (http://www.iaaf.org/newsfiles/9584.pdf) which references Schedule I (available at http://www.sportpro.it/doping/regolamenti/RegIaaf.pdf) which says:

"Anabolic Agents...and chemically or pharmacologically related compounds and precursors."
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Re: Toth alleged to be positive

Postby MJD » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:27 am

Then he would be plainly wrong. See
>IAAF rule 60, para 1
>(http://www.iaaf.org/newsfiles/9584.pdf) which
>references Schedule I (available at
>http://www.sportpro.it/doping/regolamenti/RegIaaf.
>df) which says:

"Anabolic Agents...and
>chemically or pharmacologically related compounds
>and precursors."

I know that. I'm just saying that would be their defence. I realize it doesn't hold up.
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the lesson to be learned

Postby Guest » Thu Oct 23, 2003 1:07 am

The moral of the story, don't do anything dishonest, your dishonesty will catch up with you. The clean athletes must be jumping for joy, their stand is proving a little more worthwhile everyday. Be honest and sit at your doorstep and your enemies will be carried past.
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