WADA's Pound says 'it aint over'


This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; it's back to being locked.

Postby mrbowie » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:55 pm

The key here could the use of the word "borderline" to explain the discrepancy twixt the A and B.

In horse racing, there are trainers who by trial and error have figured out when to administer PEDs so that when the tests are performed, they fall under the threshold level for a positive.

There is one guy who has perfected this to such a point that his tests regularly come in just under the limit.

Perhaps this is the case with MJ.

I think one thing that appears to be obvious is that these tests are only as good as the tester and until a certain level of professional consistency is met, there are going to be discrepancies.
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Postby CookyMonzta » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:57 pm

tafnut wrote:Can you say, "Witch Hunt"?

It's worse than that. Like I said before, this may have been the first and last opportunity to catch the big fish. Now that he realizes that the big fish is about to escape into open waters, he wants to defy the rules, even make up new rules as he goes along, to hang her on a hook. He will lose, bitterly, because it is almost a certainty that, had both samples come up positive, he would have been just as quick to accept the outcome. No one is that stupid to think he would have made the same suggestion he is making right now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let the inquiry begin.
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Postby Snation » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:05 pm

Exactly as below.

The GDR scientists and physcians had this down. They developed a lab to experiment with doses and metabolism times (which is now WADA certified since the GDR went down). The GDR docs knew how long before each drug they administered took to be eliminated from the body. They tested each athlete to make sure he/she was clean before competition.

Victor Conte has the same thing going. He used Quest labs in San Diego. The BALCO investigation turned up these records.

So, the athletes who cheat have been ahead of the testers for a long time.


The key here could the use of the word "borderline" to explain the discrepancy twixt the A and B.

In horse racing, there are trainers who by trial and error have figured out when to administer PEDs so that when the tests are performed, they fall under the threshold level for a positive.

There is one guy who has perfected this to such a point that his tests regularly come in just under the limit.

Perhaps this is the case with MJ.

I think one thing that appears to be obvious is that these tests are only as good as the tester and until a certain level of professional consistency is met, there are going to be discrepancies
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Postby EPelle » Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:06 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:It's worse than that. Like I said before, this may have been the first and last opportunity to catch the big fish.

I don:t fully agree with your reasons here, but I appreciate your line of thought. This may be the first real break in the link between Marion Jones and BALCO. Dick Pound and the silent, lurking federal authorities behind him can use a banning opportunity to their advantage much the same way as has been presented to Justin Gatlin, that is to say they can use testimony to land bigger fish when testimony, itself, has been the key to establishing just cause for prosecution.

Some like to look past the BALCO inquisition and (incorrectly) assume the lack of activity on the scales means that no quake is imminent. The trembles are there, just not noticeable on a daily basis. There was a reason the New York Times ran a BALCO-related (and track-connected) article just before the Gatlin bust, just as there was cause for Gatlin to confess shortly after that.
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Postby eldrick » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:17 am

EPelle wrote:Some like to look past the BALCO inquisition and (incorrectly) assume the lack of activity on the scales means that no quake is imminent


why "incorrectly" ?

how long has it been since we heard anything from the feds on this ?

6/12 ?

a year ?
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:29 am

A fair question, indeed.

Am I to assume that, because I have not heard much on the Hunt for bin Laden front, the world has given up on finding him?

These two people - Jones and bin Laden, BALCO and the great hunt - are not to be interchanged, but the principle is the same: Lack of apparent movement does not equal lack of movement.
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Postby eldrick » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:00 am

i sse stuff on the news still, about hunt for bin, esecially whenever he releases a vid & the task-force hunting him will never be disbanded 'till he's caught

however, i seem to see no news on the marion/balco front anymore & i can't even recall when was the last time i did

i'll make a quick point - why woud feds be interested in marion ?

i believe their remit is to convict traffickers who have trafficked over state borders & they nailed their man well over a year ago

marion if any allegation is true, at worst was a sole user of illegal drugs - feds only go after traffickers, not sole users

their aim with marion wouda been as a tool to nail conte - they succeeded in that, so what more use is she to them ?

why would they look at her anymore ?
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:08 am

eldrick, I appreciate your taking a different look at this, and opening up this forum to possibilities, rather than conclusions.

From a purely athletics perspective, Marion Jones has also been linked to Trevor Graham. Trevor may face trafficking charges, as he has been named as the source of drugs smuggling/trafficking by many athletes across several state and international lines.

I have no idea if their testimony is true or false, but I keep an open mind as to whether liars can tell the truth.

tafnut, yesterday, agreed that Marion Jones has, in principle, lied about past involvement with drugs cheats, and whether she knew of their involvement. That puts her in the same pot as Conte, Montgomery, Hunter et al, who have lied, period, no matter what else they may have done.

Someone is telling the truth. Who it is remains to be seen, and that is why I think that Pound so desperately wants Jones to take the fall in this one so that she can take down any - and every - person involved between the lines - specifically Graham. If Marion Jones can be linked to Trevor Graham; Trevor Graham to Victor Conte; and Victor Conte to Barry Bonds and more... well, you see the bigger picture.

Does bad company spoil good manners, eldrick?
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Postby eldrick » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:34 am

all i want to know is answer to 1 simple question :

what charges are the feds contemplating bringing against marion ?
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:46 am

eldrick, as with the Gotti case I mentioned last week, Jones may get something minute-to-nothing for her federal testimony; if a murderer who has been linked to 19 cases can get 5 years and federal protection, Jones - who means nothing to a federal government - should not be on the radar. They are after Graham. Testimony by Marion+Conte+Montgomery+Hunter et al. can be a very keen link in favour of stomping out any defence Graham may provide for his cause.

On a WADA-level, however, she faces banning for any incriminating testimony she provides unless the feds can protect that testimony through 5:th Ammendment rights exercised though getting the testimony they want.
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Postby eldrick » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:06 am

so

feds have no charges to bring against marion

therefore what threat are they going to use against her to testify against trevor ?

i bet i can see her answer now :

" i never ever took drugs & i never saw trevor with any drugs "

now where is your use for marion ?
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:16 am

eldrick, what happens if Marion Jones does not respond to that inquiry with that statement?

We:ve established that she has lied in testimony, though she has not yet been charged with perjury. Would she want to perjur herself again and risk jail time for someone with whom she has no relation - athletic or personal?
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Postby TrakFan » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:25 am

EPelle wrote:eldrick, what happens if Marion Jones does not respond to that inquiry with that statement?

We:ve established that she has lied in testimony, though she has not yet been charged with perjury. Would she want to perjur herself again and risk jail time for someone with whom she has no relation - athletic or personal?


Is there definitive proof that she lied, or has her testimony simply differed from CJ & VC's?
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:31 am

My answer will be construed as biased no matter what I state, so I:ll leave the floor open to others - tafnut, specifically.

Jones testimony - according to Conte in an e-mail exchange with Mark Fainaru-Wada - had come back to "bite her in the butt". I:ll leave that open to interpretation.

You:ve got Conte, Hunter and Montgomery providing times and places where Marion Jones has taken performance-enhancing drugs, and Marion Jones denying she has ever taken a drug.

Her test here "proves" that she has never taken a drug, according to her.

Let me ask you the same question I asked eldrick: Can bad company spoil good manners, or is Jones above that?
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Postby bad hammy » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:35 am

EPelle wrote:We:ve established that she has lied in testimony, though she has not yet been charged with perjury.

Have we?? I ask out of ignornace here. Has her grand jury testimony been leaked, and/or do we know she lied in it? If so the feds would already be after her for perjury. Or do we just know about her public (not under oath) statements?
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:50 am

Hammy, no problem... I should not assume anyone knows anything... my bad.

Jones grand jury testimony has not been leaked as far as I know. However, C.J. Hunter stated the following under oath:

    "I saw Marion Jones inject herself with EPO. She would inject herself in the front waist line area slightly underneath the skin. Graham instructed Jones to inject herself in this area. Initially, I injected Jones because she did not want to inject herself in this location."

Conte stated on ESPN the Magasine:

    ON APRIL 21, 2001, I was sitting in an Embassy Suites hotel room in Covina, Calif., about a foot away from Marion Jones. The next day, she was going to try to break the world record in the 300 meters. It was her first competition of the 2001 season, and we were both excited.

    We'd had a lot of success since the previous August, after I'd arranged for her to receive various performance enhancers, including The Clear, a steroid that later became famous as THG, and nutritional supplements. She was on all of it at the 2000 Games in Sydney, when she won three gold medals and two bronzes. I tell you this knowing Marion passed a lie detector test saying it's not true. All that shows me is lie detectors don't work.

    She came to my room for a new piece of equipment I'd brought, a NovoPen injector that looks like a Sharpie and can be used to inject human growth hormone. I needed to teach her how to use it. Marion wasn't the least bit nervous; she's always in control. She pulled the spandex of her bicycle shorts above her right thigh. She dialed up a dose of four-and-a-half units of growth hormone and injected it into her quadriceps.

    Marion won the race the next day but didn't break the record, which has stood since 1984. I wasn't surprised. Back then, before year-round drug testing, sprinters could use as much as they liked, as long as they tapered off just before a race. No one can get away with that today.

    I liked Marion and I don't think she was doing anything differently than anyone else. But I do know she was using the very best stuff. I made sure of it
    .

    ....

    Back around the same time C.J. asked me to work with Marion, I also heard from her training partner, Tim Montgomery. Tim was 5'10'' and weighed 148 pounds when I met him; that's why they called him Tiny Tim. He told me he had more potential than anybody, but didn't have the support. He'd just come through an awful year and was very upset with his coach, Trevor Graham, who was also Marion's coach.

    As soon as I found out what Tim was taking, I said, "You're oversaturated with performance-enhancing drugs. Too much is just as bad as not enough." I first met Tim when I gave him some of The Clear in Sydney, and he visited BALCO in November. I'd assembled a team -- Project World Record -- that included Milos Sarcev, a brilliant bodybuilder, and Charlie Francis, who coached Ben Johnson when he won gold in the '88 Games and was then disqualified and banned for taking steroids. Milos developed Tim's weight-training program. Charlie developed his track-training program. And I developed his pharmacology and nutrition program.

    Want to hear something amazing? There's a BALCO calendar for Tim that shows he was taking insulin, EPO, growth hormone, The Clear and adrenaline -- five different performance-enhancing agents -- through 2001. At the end of June, Tim won the United States championship. Soon after, the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency sent him a postcompetition letter that said: "Congratulations, Tim. You've tested negative for all performance-enhancing substances in the sample that was collected." He was using all these drugs, and USADA couldn't detect any of them. So how easy is it to beat the USADA test? It's like taking candy from a baby. The results of Project World Record, by the way, were phenomenal. Tim made $600,000 in 2001.


Neither Conte nor Hunter have been sued for these statements. Ever. These statements have merely been brushed aside as having come from two men with vendettas. When Conte went on "20/20", however, Jones struck back in full-force. Not the case here. Not the case with Hunter.

I wonder why the woman so used to holding press conferences to uphold her innocence decided to use one small channel to declare her entire past drug-free, rather than use the same M.O. to defend justice as she had to defend herself up to this point. This is nominal question in the case, however.

Do you, Bad Hammy, believe that both Tim Montgomery and C.J. Hunter were able to take drugs without Marion Jones knowledge or foresight? Do any of these aforementioned men want to lie to the federal invesigators and risk prison time for a woman with whom they have no relation?
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Postby bad hammy » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:07 am

EPelle wrote:Do you, Bad Hammy, believe . . .

What I believe here isn't relevant. I was just pointing out that the Feds could hold a perjury rap over her head, but only if she had actually perjured herself. We do not know what her testimony is, so we don’t know if she did or did not. For all we know she went in there and said she was juiced to the gills, and always has been. And she cannot be prosecuted because of public statements denying PED use, even if she was lying and did use PEDs.

However, the Feds would know what that grand jury testimony is. My guess is that if they thought that she had perjured herself, they would have squeezed her or busted her by now.

And the question as to why she did or did not sue someone is an obtuse argument at best, and one that the Feds would care nothing about.
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:17 am

Bad Hammy, as usual, you bring a voice of reason to the site (as does eldrick and everyone in opposition to what I contend).

What we do know is that Victor Conte revealed certain informatation to the San Francisco Chronicle reporters who were very stern in their stances to not reveal that information to a federal judge. That case against them is on-going. Should they be forced to give away their source (understood as Conte), they will be forced to state how they received federally-leaked case information, opening up further investigation into what Victor Conte stated against Jones, Montgomery, Bonds, Hunter, et al.

Please consider that what they hold in their hands is relevant, and don:t just throw out the luke-warm water due to a lack of clarity.
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Postby bad hammy » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:58 am

EPelle wrote:Bad Hammy, as usual, you bring a voice of reason to the site (as does eldrick and everyone in opposition to what I contend).

I am not in opposition to anything here. Your posts re: PEDs over the last couple of months have been very educational and enlightening.

Here is what we know for sure: We are three years past the opening of the BALCO doors, and no authorities, Feds, locals, WADA/USADA/IAAF/USATF have officially, publicly lifted a finger against MJ in that case. USADA got an A positive out of her, earlier this year (which we should never have known about) and the B was negative, so that was a non-story.

Everything else is conjecture. If all of the evidence that we know of to date was enough, one of these authorities would have moved on it by now.
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:03 am

Bad Hammy, I am going to take the protagonist role here and ask the following: Must the federalies move on Jone if it is just to catch Jones, or will they wait for unadulerated information which brings down a greater source?
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Postby bad hammy » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:46 am

EPelle wrote:Bad Hammy, I am going to take the protagonist role here and ask the following: Must the federalies move on Jone if it is just to catch Jones, or will they wait for unadulerated information which brings down a greater source?

They already got Conte and the pharmacist. Which source are you thinking of?
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Postby tafnut » Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:47 am

EPelle wrote:Bad Hammy, I am going to take the protagonist role here and ask the following: Must the federalies move on Jone if it is just to catch Jones, or will they wait for unadulerated information which brings down a greater source?


I'm pretty sure if the PTB had anything concrete on MJ they would have already pounced. Bringing her down sends a powerful message. I very much doubt they are stringing her along (with proof in hand already), just to see who else they could entice out of the woodwork (like cockroaches) in the hopes of nabbing "Mr. Big".
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Postby gh » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:24 am

I'm guessing that at this point if Jones has any "prosecution" to fear it'll arise from the cheque-kiting scheme she has been tangentially linked to, not the ancient BALCO news.

The whole BALCO mess was never much about trying to catch/punish individual users of PEDs. They were after bigger fish committing more serious creimes.
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Postby eldrick » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:55 am

illogicality in conte's statement :

Marion won the race the next day but didn't break the record, which has stood since 1984. I wasn't surprised. Back then, before year-round drug testing, sprinters could use as much as they liked, as long as they tapered off just before a race. No one can get away with that today.


hgh & thg were undetectable at that time ( '01 )

therefore, they coud be taken in any dose ,year round , with impunity ( same day as a drug test if you wanted to ! ) - no need for a taper

so his explanation about tapering is nonsense

if that is nonsense, how much more of his statement is ( or does that really matter ? - an opposing lawyer has enough to get his teeth into ) ?

also claims she was on thg in sydney - if those samples still existed, they wouda been retroactively tested for it in '03 when test was developed ( they kept samples from '99 tour de france, do they in athletics ? )
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Postby RJMB_1 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:20 am

hgh & thg were undetectable at that time ( '01 )

That's interesting I can think of another champion of the time who I have been suspicious of for a long time but would never mention (in the same way I dont think others should do the same to Marion) because I have no way of knowing If I be right or wrong.
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Postby unclezadok » Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:14 am

One thing about Pound is that he is ALWAYS predictable.
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Postby Snation » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:26 pm

Comments:

1. I don't think there is evidence Jones perjured herself in front of the BALCO Grand Jury. I am not sure on this, but I don't recall it.

2. The journalists often said that they were aghast at what the BALCO testimony was, and then what the athletes said in press conferences. However, this is not illegal, nor is it perjruy.

3. BALCO went hard after Conte, Patrick Arnold (the chemist), Greg Anderson (Bond's trainer), James Valente (a BALCO exec) and track coach Remi Korchemny (In Iowa).

4. There is little info coming out of the new Grand Jury for BALCO. The last news was that a fellow from Mexico supplied steroids to Trevor Graham. Greg Anderson is in jail for failure to talk about Bonds to the new GJ.

5, Althought athletes were exposed as steroid users (like baseball's Jason Giambi), no charges were brought against the players.

6. The convictions themselves were for almost minor things, and the defendants themselves served like 6 months. (this is problems with steroid cases -- almost not worth the money and time).

7. Bonds is getting attention because there is a question of perjruy (and insolence) as well as income tax evasion.

I don't believe Marion Jones is on the radar of the FA in San Fran.
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Postby kuha » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:32 pm

"(this is problems with steroid cases -- almost not worth the money and time)."

Ay, and there's the rub. For some fans, NO EXPENSE should be spared in burning these folks at the stake. In "real" society, this is all trivial, penny-ante stuff.
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Postby donley2 » Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:42 pm

kuha wrote:"(this is problems with steroid cases -- almost not worth the money and time)."

Ay, and there's the rub. For some fans, NO EXPENSE should be spared in burning these folks at the stake. In "real" society, this is all trivial, penny-ante stuff.


I for one do strongly advocate spending a lot more money on things like research for new tests, more tests, and saving and retesting old samples. But this "it is all trivial" comparison is silly. Compared to real life this entire sport is trivial penny-ante stuff.
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Postby Snation » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:19 pm

One of my best friends is a state and fed narcotics agent. He is the one who told me that he doesn't pursue steroid users, and rarely dealers. He says the conviction sentences just don't make it worthwhile. With all the other drug abuse, steroid abuse is considered an interesting sideline.

He was interested in a cop who is a reputed steroid dealer around here. And that's about it.

For years Victor Conte was doping up track athletes. He was brazen enough to walk around track meets with a black bag. He had 'Project World Record'. Did anyone try to stop him?

BALCO happened because Trevor Graham sent a syringe of THG to the USADA. Then an IRS agent who looked at illegal drug deals named Novitzsky became interested in the BALCO site. He knew Conte was the center of an international ring that supplied drugs to stars. The biggest star: Barry Bonds. So the USADA and the IRS converged on BALCO.

So, for the most part, law enforcement is not interested in PEDs…nevermind the cheating, the awful side effects, their use in kids, and the association with other drugs.

In a way, a baseball star led to the largest track bust in the USA
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:45 pm

eldrick wrote:illogicality in conte's statement :

Marion won the race the next day but didn't break the record, which has stood since 1984. I wasn't surprised. Back then, before year-round drug testing, sprinters could use as much as they liked, as long as they tapered off just before a race. No one can get away with that today.


hgh & thg were undetectable at that time ( '01 )

therefore, they coud be taken in any dose ,year round , with impunity ( same day as a drug test if you wanted to ! ) - no need for a taper

so his explanation about tapering is nonsense

if that is nonsense, how much more of his statement is ( or does that really matter ? - an opposing lawyer has enough to get his teeth into ) ?

also claims she was on thg in sydney - if those samples still existed, they wouda been retroactively tested for it in '03 when test was developed ( they kept samples from '99 tour de france, do they in athletics ? )

eldrick, I read this as meaning no one that day (2003-november) could get away with that... he skipped past 2001...looks to me as though he is trying not to make himself - nor his products - look bad for not enabling Marion Jones to break the WR.
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Postby EPelle » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:34 pm

Snation wrote:Comments:

1. I don't think there is evidence Jones perjured herself in front of the BALCO Grand Jury. I am not sure on this, but I don't recall it.


Here is an interesting read: http://www.ergogenics.org/13.html

You won:t be able to draw any concrete Jones perjury conclusions from it, but one is better able to see why there is a wait-and-see approach being taken on any positive doping tests associated with Marion Jones name.

On a side note, something more for historical perspective now: something prompted an immediate settlement in her lawsuit against Conte.

Jones had been angered by Conte:s "20/20" statements, and filed a USD-25M defamation lawsuit against him. She and Conte settled two weeks after Conte:s attorney, James Wagstaffe, submitted documents saying he would, as part of the case, take the depositions of Jones, "and other individuals who will corroborate plaintiff's use of anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing drugs."

The terms of the settlement - like that of the confidentiality agreement signed with C.J. Hunter upon divorce - were not disclosed. This followed 12 days after Jones team demanded Victor Conte take a polygraph test - one which Jones states she "passed", and one which the ex-FBI polygraph examiner, Ronald Homer, who administered it stated, "It is my opinion that these responses are not indicative of deception". (What ever became of that? Does anyone know if Victor Conte ever took one?)

Jones went from accusing Conte of lying to try to destroy her career and reputation to being completely silent on the issue. When Jones "A"-sample was leaked, and Conte sent an e-mail ("I have always told the truth regarding my relationship with Marion Jones"), Jones did not lash out at him or state that he had violated any part of the agreement. She just moved forward, and has not directed any anymosity toward Conte for stating that when her "B"-sample apparently contradicted the "A"-sample.
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Postby eldrick » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:48 am

EPelle wrote:
eldrick wrote:illogicality in conte's statement :

Marion won the race the next day but didn't break the record, which has stood since 1984. I wasn't surprised. Back then, before year-round drug testing, sprinters could use as much as they liked, as long as they tapered off just before a race. No one can get away with that today.


hgh & thg were undetectable at that time ( '01 )

therefore, they coud be taken in any dose ,year round , with impunity ( same day as a drug test if you wanted to ! ) - no need for a taper

so his explanation about tapering is nonsense

if that is nonsense, how much more of his statement is ( or does that really matter ? - an opposing lawyer has enough to get his teeth into ) ?

also claims she was on thg in sydney - if those samples still existed, they wouda been retroactively tested for it in '03 when test was developed ( they kept samples from '99 tour de france, do they in athletics ? )

eldrick, I read this as meaning no one that day (2003-november) could get away with that... he skipped past 2001...looks to me as though he is trying not to make himself - nor his products - look bad for not enabling Marion Jones to break the WR.


i have no idea what you are reading

he DOESN'T skip over '01 - he alleges she was on these drugs when tryng to break 300wr in '01
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Postby EPelle » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:53 am

eldrick: "bak then" and "today" tip the reader that Conte is discussing two periods of time: the steroid-era and 2003-november. He was not discussing 2001 when he stated "today".
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Postby eldrick » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:59 am

EPelle wrote:Jones had been angered by Conte:s "20/20" statements, and filed a USD-25M defamation lawsuit against him. She and Conte settled two weeks after Conte:s attorney, James Wagstaffe, submitted documents saying he would, as part of the case, take the depositions of Jones, "and other individuals who will corroborate plaintiff's use of anabolic steroids and other performance enhancing drugs."


like who ?

the feds likely tooth-combed every scrap of paper conte had in his possesion & if there was any document strong enough to convict marion for perjury in front of a grand jury, they wouda prosecuted her, as that's a federal offence

Jones went from accusing Conte of lying to try to destroy her career and reputation to being completely silent on the issue. When Jones "A"-sample was leaked, and Conte sent an e-mail ("I have always told the truth regarding my relationship with Marion Jones"), Jones did not lash out at him or state that he had violated any part of the agreement. She just moved forward, and has not directed any anymosity toward Conte for stating that when her "B"-sample apparently contradicted the "A"-sample.


a convict with likely little money now, making a bland comment

hardly worth pursuing unless he comes into money or makes a stronger accusation
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Postby EPelle » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:14 am

Good question, eldrick, as to "like who?".

If there was no "who", why settle so quickly after his attorney made the claim? He was also going to take Jones own deposition. They never made it that far. If Victor Conte is a liar (hej, what ever happened to that Polygraph test, anyway!?), why not have Jones make a deposition, and get the key witnesses lined up for Jones team to fire away at in terms of credibility, then settle?
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Postby eldrick » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:34 am

EPelle wrote:eldrick: "bak then" and "today" tip the reader that Conte is discussing two periods of time: the steroid-era and 2003-november. He was not discussing 2001 when he stated "today".


no

you are talking nonsense

ON APRIL 21, 2001, I was sitting in an Embassy Suites hotel room in Covina, Calif., about a foot away from Marion Jones. The next day, she was going to try to break the world record in the 300 meters. It was her first competition of the 2001 season, and we were both excited.

We'd had a lot of success since the previous August, after I'd arranged for her to receive various performance enhancers, including The Clear, a steroid that later became famous as THG, and nutritional supplements. She was on all of it at the 2000 Games in Sydney, when she won three gold medals and two bronzes.
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Postby eldrick » Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:41 am

EPelle wrote:Good question, eldrick, as to "like who?".

If there was no "who", why settle so quickly after his attorney made the claim? He was also going to take Jones own deposition. They never made it that far. If Victor Conte is a liar (hej, what ever happened to that Polygraph test, anyway!?), why not have Jones make a deposition, and get the key witnesses lined up for Jones team to fire away at in terms of credibility, then settle?


what makes you think marion's side caved in ?

she is a woman who can afford a harvard professor to oversee an epo test & therefore can almost certainly have hired the best lawyers money couda bought for that case

conte on the other hand had access to lawyers who coudn't even keep him out of jail !

conte's team couda quickly caved in from marion's lawyers - she coud keep on afford to retain them - he unlikely coudn't ( i assume feds were in process of freezing/seizing his asets )

faced with bankruptcy, i can easily see him have caved in
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Postby EPelle » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:37 am

Conte settled the suit, and did it "on confidential terms" his attorney stated. Jones attorneys never disclosed information about the settlement.

eldrick, who would the burden of proof have been on to demonstrate that Victor Conte defamed Marion Jones? Would Marion Jones have to make a statement of record to authorities denying steroids usage?

Regarding keeping Conte out of jail, I believe his attorneys did a good job. Conte pleaded guilty to money laundering and a steroid distribution charge while more than 30 counts against him were dropped in a plea bargain. That plea bargain averted a trial that would have shined a light on sports, wrote the San Francisco Chronicle on 2005-07-15. The plea deals, they stated, also seemed to end the prospect that any of the superstar athletes would be named in open court or have to testify about possible steroid use.

Did Conte settle the defamation suit with Jones to keep her from having to testify?

(And the answer to the lie-detector test is that Conte never submitted to it).
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Postby EPelle » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:49 am

eldrick wrote:
EPelle wrote:eldrick: "bak then" and "today" tip the reader that Conte is discussing two periods of time: the steroid-era and 2003-november. He was not discussing 2001 when he stated "today".


no

you are talking nonsense

ON APRIL 21, 2001, I was sitting in an Embassy Suites hotel room in Covina, Calif., about a foot away from Marion Jones. The next day, she was going to try to break the world record in the 300 meters. It was her first competition of the 2001 season, and we were both excited.

We'd had a lot of success since the previous August, after I'd arranged for her to receive various performance enhancers, including The Clear, a steroid that later became famous as THG, and nutritional supplements. She was on all of it at the 2000 Games in Sydney, when she won three gold medals and two bronzes.

eldrick, Conte was discussing with the article:s author in 2003 that he, Victor Conte, was sitting with Marion Jones back in 2001. When someone says the word, "today" to you, do you not generally accept that as being the 24-hour period in which you find yourself, or in a time era concerning this? I do, and believe what I am reading, namely that in 2003 no one could get away with doping to that extent.
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